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Maybe i was really lucky with Isla, she was breastfed (started with solids just after 4 months as she is a big baby) but i don't remember sticking to any feeding routines, i just fed her on demand and she got into her own wee routine, can't really remember what it was but she was probably having about 6 to 8 feeds a day, most of the feeds during the daytime and evening then maybe only one or two through the night even when she was very little. Don't know about bottlefeeding except that my Mum bottlefed us when we were young and i think we just got a bottle every 4 hours.
I think too many Mums get worried about routine and sticking to books (like Gina Ford). Babies are very clever and will work out their own routines if you leave them to it i think.
I agree Mrs o... I read all the books but chucked them when they were causing me stress cos the babies would not conform to what it said in the book! Felt much more relaxed when i just went with what the babies needed and we soon found ourselves in a routine. I guess different approaches work for different people, and babies. I must admit i have never been one for strict routine in my own life!
The best advice I was given was to let the baby lead the way for the first 12 weeks then you take the lead and can start changing things to suit you, this really worked for me.
i desperately tried to make jacob conform to what GF said he should be doing and i don't think that helped with my PND because he wouldn't and i thought it was my fault. i should have done what you did, hetty, and thrown the book away but i was so desperate for answers to help me that i kept going back to it.
but, by the time he was 12 weeks old, i did find that i could align his feeds closer to GF's routines - perhaps because i switched to expressing 100% of his feeds at that point so i could physically see how much milk he was drinking, therefore if he was yelling half an hour after a feed and he'd just taken 9oz of milk, it wasn't likely that he was still hungry.
having said that, by about 20 weeks, his feeding got really tricky again because he had a very very hungry phase from about 4pm onwards. i would feed him at 2.30 / 3pm and then by 4pm he would be screaming. quite often he would have a full bottle at 2.30pm, another full bottle at 4pm and another one at 5pm and then another one at 6.30pm! i was forever pumping milk for him. he wouldn't take solids though - not at all. i started trying him on solids at about 5 months but he didn't take anything off a spoon for me until he was about 7 months. (would eat at childminder's though!). i got really stressed about it, but the HV told me not to worry. as long as he was still gaining weight (which he was) and we were continuing to offer him solids, he would eventually eat. i used to get mad with frustration that he wouldn't eat when he was obviously starving. he would scream and scream and scream when i tried to give him baby rice / fruit / veg etc, and yet down a bottle of milk in 3 seconds flat.
still - he got there eventually. now he's a right gutso. he's starting to get very selective about what he will eat (meat, fruit and toast are always OK; other things are hit and miss these days), but as long as he's not ill, he can fair put it away if he chooses to. and he pulls his highchair out and opens cupboard doors in the kitchen when he's hungry!
I think you're right mrs O - that's what I've always tried to do with mine (and when DD was little it was all different - no GF, no internet - which I'm sure led to a lot less stress!)
I read a nice thing recently which talked about babies settleing into a rhythm rather than a routine - that's what it feels like to me. We don't do anything at a set time apart from leaving for school in the morning, but Eddie will feed and sleep at roughly the same intervals most days - he fits around all the other things we have to do (music lessons, swimming, gymnastics, running) and I don't think he's any the worse for it.
And CM I have a friend who had the same experience as you with GF - I think it obviously does work for some families, but the problem is you can blame yourself if it doesn't, when actually if you try and trust your instincts you can find what works for you.
Just been for my 1st post-birth haircut - had loads chopped off and feel much better for it.
sarahbob - your hair looks very smart
with hindsight, you are of course right. i should have ditched GF and figured out our own way. the problem was, i didn't feel like i had any instincts to trust. i was clueless. and jacob was a very fretful and fussy baby. if he had been contented, i probably wouldn't have worried so much. so i could never tell whether he was hungry or tired or in pain or... i couldn't identify with him at all, so didn't know what to do with him. GF offered such an appealing solution - unfortunately, it didn't work for us (at least not until he was bigger).
still, i think whatever happens, those first few weeks are bloody tough - whether you GF it or not! and the yelling does stop - eventually. perhaps if we had got out and about more (like you have to when baby is number 2 or 3), i wouldn't have had time to stew about it all.
Everyone is different and the routine worked really well for us. I like to follow running schedules and have always been a creature of habit so it worked well for us. I was not strict with it by any means and certainly don't follow it now as boys have 3 meals a day etc But they still have morning nap between 9 and 10 roughly 30 mins and a post lunch kip.
I just found the blurb GF writes useful. Good to know roughly what should be happening, how much milk should they getting (hard to know when bf, but number of feeds etc.) and how much sleep. I have always found the early morning nap and post lunch sleep invaluable. But we still mess it up by going out 2/3 times per week. Like now boys are trampolining in their cots as they fell asleep in the car, so think they've already had their sleep.
Each to their own I think, do whatever you feel is right for you and your life. I didn't go with the flow at all during the first 12 weeks and couldn't feed two babies on demand. I always fed one baby when they woke at night and then woke the other to feed them as going to bed to be woken again in 10 mins was awful when I did it the once. I have no family to fall back on, so it had to be a routine else I would have gone mad not knowing what was happening next. But equally I didn't get upset if it didn't work as growth spurts and colds always throw a spanner in the works.
My two were breast fed till just before 6 months with one bottle of formula after 8 weeks for bedtime. They were both small as 4 weeks prem, but perfectly formed, just like their mum!!!
P.S Nice hair cut sarah! I recently had all my flowing blond locks cut off, and I love it. Had mid back length hair before. Now its a short bob, really easy to look after and looks good even if have no time to do anything to it except brush it!
Also thought would add I weaned my two at 5.5 months even though both small. Milk no longer seemed to satisfy Joshie, and he started waking at night looking for a feed after 3 months of sleeping through. H wasn't ready, but wasn't weaning them separately that was for sure!!!
Gosh, haven't been on since Friday and so much to catch up on!
MM< sorry to hear you didn't get the result you were looking for in your half. I'm sure it was just a bad day and nothing to do with your training as you said before you were feeling pretty fit. I find it much more difficult to do 'hard' training runs now, as I often don't get out the door until gone 7pm by which time I'm too tired to give it my all. At least I'm getting out there though, which is better than nothing.
Weight-wise, I think I've been really lucky. I can fit easily into everything I wore pre-Kit (although I've gone off a lot of my old clothes!) but have no idea what I actually weigh as we don't own any scales. I seem to be very slightly bigger round the middle and my tummy isn't quite as taut as it was, but I really have nothing to complain about. I did find that everything toned up again quite quickly once I started back running. Now managing about 20-25 miles a week over 4 runs, so feeling quite positive about it at the moment.
Really struggling with Kit's feeds at the moment. I think he must be teething - this is my first experience of it as the 6 teeth he already has have been cut with no problems at all. It started last Friday when he refused to take much of either his 2:30pm bottle or his bedtime bottle. He ate his solids OK though. Since then he's been fussy with either his milk or his solids or sometimes both. On Monday he only took 1oz at 2:30pm and 3oz at bedtime although he's been taking a full 8oz in the morning. He seems to eat his breakfast cereal OK but often refuses his savoury lunch or fusses hugely with it. Is it normal for babies to completely go off food and milk when teething? Am really worried he's going to start losing weight. He has been doing lots of wet and pooey nappies so I know he's OK, and seems generally OK in himself. First suspected teething last night when one of his cheeks looked quite red and felt hot to the touch.
Hubby tried giving him some Calpol today before his lunch but it didn't work. He refused all but a few spoonfuls of his fruity chicken (that I made at 10pm last night!) but he had a slice of toast. Am a bit worried about the huge reduction in the amount he's having, both food and milk, but am trying (not always very successfully) not to get stressed about it. Putting off going to the clinic again to get him weighed in case he's lost weight which will just make me worry more.
Just hoping it's teeth and he'll be OK again soon. He has two at the bottom and four at the top so am thinking it'll be the anterior incisors at the bottom next, although there seems to be no sign of them yet. He was putting his fingers in his mouth a lot yesterday and he cried a couple of time when he bit down on his teething ring so think his little mouth is sore. Hasn't (yet) affected his sleep but if he cuts down too much on food it may well do. Never thought that having a baby would be so stressful!
AP, great to see you back and glad everyone seems to be doing well. There have been 3 car incidents on this thread recently - let's hope that's the lot!!
Thanks Cragchick and good luck for your half marathon. I'm afraid I haven't been brave enough to enter a race yet - only entered FLM because of my GFA place. The cheque has been cashed so I guess I'm in! Have started doing my long runs on a Sunday morning (I always used to do them in the afternoon) so I head out as soon as Kit goes down for his nap. He sleeps for an hour to an hour and a half so I get most of my run in before he wakes up. That way I don't feel I miss out too much on time with him.
Thanks for reassurance re. teething. I'm pretty sure it can't be anything else as he's fine in himself - still quite smiley - and is sleeping OK. With his earlier teeth he had a really sore bottom like Joshua. He had never had nappy rash but it was quite bad for a few days - red raw and his poo was very runny. I applied liberal amounts of Sudacrem and MM recommended a couple of other creams - can't remember the name of the one I bought but it worked really well. So far his bottom is OK but he's not interested in his food. Apparently he had 7oz of milk at 2:30pm though so at least he's getting some nourishment.
The work/motherhood balance is going OK now I'm into the swing of it. I'd still rather be with Kit 100% but in some ways I'm quite enjoying havinga couple of lunchtimes to get things done for myself. When he's a bit under par I feel bad that I'm not there but at least I know he's in good hands. If we have another one I will definitely give up work though!
teething does all sorts of weird things. i think jacob is teething again now because he's not eating much and keeps waking up in the night. i dosed him up with medised for a few nights but it didn't seem to make much difference. last night, he started yelling at about 9pm and hubby managed to get up there and pat his back and shush him before he fully woke up, and he went back to sleep again. what a star!
you always think of teething being a problem when they are little babies, but i've found it far worse since jacob has been bigger. i guess the teeth are bigger and nastier. generally jacob gets a snotty cold when he's teething, as well as a sore bum.
i don't know what i'm going to blame his night-time waking on once he's got all his teeth!
JT - glad to hear last night was a bit better. sometimes it takes a while for things to start working, so keep plugging on with the frequent feeding (if you can bear it!)
Oh and LOL at telly JT! Time to get some Baby Einstein DVDs. v expensive but invaluable for keeping them entertained while you phone the bank etc! i can guarantee Jacob won't budge from right in front of the telly if i put Baby Van Gogh on. i can go and prepare his lunch and i know he isn't going to get up to any mischief while it's on (unless you count kissing Van Goat on the telly).
we didn't have a telly until last Christmas (yes, i know - we are weird!), so jacob hadn't seen a TV until he went to stay at my m-i-l's house when he was about 3 months old. he was transfixed by jonathan ross. now he marches into our living rooms, points at the TV and shouts for it to be put on. he also wanders around with the remote control pushing buttons and pointing it at the TV hoping it will come on.
Agree with you Mrs O about babies doing their own thing. I got really upset with JP not doing what GF said he should be doing and felt really stressed and like I'd 'failed' somehow. But then he magically put himself in his own routine, which is something like this:
9.15 (!) Bottle feed
2.30 Bottle feed
9.30 Bottle feed
10.45 Breastfeed and then sleep!
Night feed - normally about 4.30am
Now I know roughly what his pattern is, things seem so much easier and I can plan to do things when I know he'll sleep. His long nap in the evening is great because we can have dinner and relax for a bit. The first few weeks were so hard, but I feel like we've really turned a corner now.
Mrs O - yes, he was big when he was born (10lbs 6 and a half oz). So he's following his growth curve quite nicely. How accurate do we think the charts are at determining how tall babies will be when fully grown? It has him as turning out as 6ft 4 and 14 and a half stone! But his daddy is big (6ft 1) and I'm quite tall too (5ft 7). Not that I'm wishing that he grows up just yet!
Must go, we've had a wee fountain upstairs!!! xx
JT - hurrah! that's brilliant news. SO glad that the more frequent feeding seems to be working better for you. it would be gutting to be feeding him so often if it were all coming up again! and as you say, it's not going to be forever. impressed that he's actually feeding that frequently as well. but if it's going in, staying down and then you are getting some sleep as well, that's brilliant.
i must admit i didn't find my nursing chair from kiddicare any good at all. i think i was SO cack-handed when b/feeding, and jacob was big and long, so he always seemed to be kicking against the side. in the end, i fed on a really naff dining room chair which was not exactly the height of comfort. still use the nursing chair in j's room when he wakes up in the night and i need to give him a cuddle to get him back to sleep.
we had no wakings last night though - but he was totally knacked as he had only had 30 mins sleep at nursery (instead of at least 2 hours when he is at home with me) all day and had been flat out busy all day.
i'm off for my first lot of CBT later today to try to sort myself out. maybe then we can think about number 2 as well
Good luck CM, my brother's ex-girlfriend had CBT and it was very successful. She was almost like a different person afterwards - SO much more positive and confident.
LOL at the wee fountains! Had one of those on Sunday when the whole of my antenatal group (mums, babies and dads) went out for Sunday lunch to a local carvery. Went to change Kit's nappy and he peed all over the changing unit, all over my portable changing mat and all over my feet (was wearing brand new suede boots at the time!) I just had to laugh - fortunately he managed not to get any on himself! My one piece of advice to anyone having a baby boy would be to always make sure their willy points downwards when changing their nappies (and never go anywhere without an extra vest and pair of trousers, just in case!)
Kit's still off his food, but he did at least have a reasonable amount of milk yesterday. He even refused his baby rice last night which he normally loves. For some reason though, hubby had put him down for a late afternoon nap at 4:50pm then didn't get him up until 5:40pm - and then expected him to be wide awake and wanting his tea. I NEVER let him have that much sleep at that time of day and even if he has half an hour I make sure he has at least another half an hour to wake up properly before feeding him. Didn't say anything to hubby though! Hubby also tried giving him a mashed jacket potato first of all, which he didn't seem to like, so I think by that time he couldn't be bothered with anything else. In the end I just gave him a whole pot of yoghurt for his tea so at least his little tummy was full. At the moment I think he's liking cold food against his gums - I even gave him his banana porridge and apple cold this morning and he ate it fine.
Minks - hope your boots survived! Would second that about willy pointing down. A friend of mine didn't know to do that and she thought her baby was sweating profusely! I usually try to cover it with a tissue when changing JP, but sometimes I forget and this is when he sprays everywhere. He has 'got' the health visitor once and also the paediatrician (that took ages to spell!) in the hospital. Funny.
Great news JT! Must be something about the miserable weather that makes babies want to sleep better. JP slept through last night for the first time since he was 5 days old (that was a fluke!). I feel like I've had about a week's sleep. It's amazing to feel so energised (well, more so than normal!).
CM - hope CBT goes well. I had it a few years ago to help with long-term depression and an eating disorder (suffered with anorexia as a teen, still have issues with weight and food). I wouldn't say I'm 'cured' forever of depression, but it really helped me to turn a corner, and I haven't had any major depressive episodes since. I think it helped me to realise that I can control my own actions but not those of others, and this has enabled me to move forward. Feel free to e-mail me if you want to chat anytime.
TB - thanks. i also had anorexia as a teen, not that you'd know it now to look at me. but i still do have a bit of an odd relationship with food. i guess all this will get dragged up as well. must admit - i have done no research into it at all so don't know what i'm letting myself in for!
Minks - oh it all sounds so familiar. i'm just glad that jacob goes to nursery 3 days a week and eats there. at least i don't have to worry about whether he will / won't eat what i've prepared. he invariably eats everything there, even if sometimes it's stuff which is rather bizarre (they give them ravioli and potatoes at lunch sometimes. that's a bit of a strange combination in my books!)
i'm now on day 5 of a tummy upset. just as i had got over 4 weeks or so of viral throat lurgy, i had one week feeling well (and running!) and then got a stomach upset at the weekend. although i haven't been sick or anything for a couple of days, i still can't face anything to eat. great for rapid (and temporary!) weightloss, but not great for energy. jacob was sick on saturday (not like him at all) but i put it down to how much water he had swallowed in the pool on saturday afternoon (JT and Ted's fault - we were in there chatting for nearly an hour!). he has been pretty much fine since then though so i don't think he's had what i've got. anyway, GRRRRRR!!!!
CM, I think it's something to do with playing up for Mummy and Daddy! Mum has Kit today, and when I spoke to her earlier he had eaten all of his lunch with no whingeing whatsoever. He'd had a nice long nap this morning (which I think does make a difference - he slept well Monday morning and then I had no trouble giving him his lunch) and has been as happy as Larry all morning (whoever the hell Larry is!)
LOL, MR - Kit's quite happy to sit in it!! He doesn't, however, like having mucky hands very much - he dips his hands into his food then immediately gets upset and looks around for somewhere to wipe them! He's also an amazingly clean eater - all the food goes into his mouth and stays there - noticed when we were out for lunch on Sunday that all the other babies in my group dribble half their food down their chins and all over their bibs. If Kit didn't stuff his whole bib into his mouth when he decides he doesn't want any more food in there, we would probably hardly ever need a clean bib!
Thanks for all the concern over my boots - think they've survived though
MR - must be a girl thing! Our friend's little girl is exactly the same when she's got a wet or dirty nappy, so she goes through them like anything! JP is like Kit and will sit in it, bless him. He's only ever cried for a dirty nappy once, and it was VERY dirty (just after I started supplementing with formula...). So much so I threw him straight in the bath!
we know all about those little fountain moments. Since Hector discovered his feet and we give him extra 'kick about' time, we have gone through loads of towels etc - I seem to be putting washing in the machine constantly! The other day he had his feet in his mouth and looked so shocked when he got a sprinkling of pee in his face!
Oh dear, had my first work related meeting today, with Hector in tow (he was invited). I wouldn't recommend it - our normally chilled little chap was moaning, grunting and crying pretty much constantly and I felt awful when the chap I was meeting looked thoroughly uncomfortable when I started feeding him! After he had left, I realised that the little fella also had a big bogey on his face. Jeez, slummy mummy!
Talking of hair cuts, has anyone else noticed that their hair is falling out? I had heard this happens after you give birth, but hadn't realised quite so much would fall out, it's like tumble weed collecting in the corners of rooms!