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The Middle Ground
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Lots to catch up on!
PRF - well done on the longest parkrun. It sounds like you had a good day. Enjoy the training run!
Darola - Well raced. Checking results of those around you is the way to go. It gave me a boost after the Mobberly race a few weeks ago. Faster times are on the way, and you'll probably still beat me to sub 20
Ratzer - Excellent opportunistic WAVA! well done on the 2 pbs
Duck - Some nice training coming in there. Another good run of form is coming...
Mr V - well done in the relay. It's always tough racing yourself. (I speak from experience, it having happened once, for the last 400m of a race!)
I've been struggling a bit with energy recently. The past 2 years I've got to the end of the school year and fallen apart, and running has stopped completely. I'm determined that it's not going to happen this year, but I have been slacking off a bit, running when I feel up to it, losing some of the early morning runs and cutting down on the speedwork. Hopefully that'll keep me ticking over for the next few of weeks, and I can pick up again when I feel things coming back.
Simon - Excellent videos. What made you burst into laughter after the 400? I think I'll watch that 1500 a few times for some tips because it looks like a certain Marathon Talk presenter has talked me into keeping him company at his next 1500 effort, or more to the point, so that he doesnt look as out of place as the last time (see SX4) when it was one bloke and a bunch of junior girls. I have every chance of coming last looking at the last results
Phil - You look like one of those imposters that hides in the bushes and then just joinsin for the last mile. Having said that, nobody would trying hiding in bushes in those shorts.
Ratzer - Good 1500 scoping effort but you've scared me now......if I run 4:59 in this 1500 I will still be last and you're bound to be quicker than me over that sort of distance. Ah well.
Great WAVA landing in the 100m, are you tempted to go sprinting now?
Mr V - 6min/mile on muddy multi terrain sounds like a good workout to me. And looks like we'll be doing battle at GNR.
10.0 miles at 8:08/mile + 1 x parkrun Show interview in the can
I did a decent double today, 7.5 miles this morning, plus 10 tonight. It was blooming hot and sticky, and I think I dropped about 6 lbs in sweat tonight, so am rehydrating with some decent vin rouge....
parkrunfan wrote (see)
x 3
Thanks for the heads up Minni.
Mr V - I still need to log on and register will do it tomorrow, do you put in a predicted finish time when you register? I dont want to have a crappy starting spot at the back with all the fancy dress numpties.
>, thanks. I would say 250s are more of a speed endurance session. I have used 150s and 200s @ 400 pace to good effect, and 300s and 400s @ 800. However, for basic speed I prefer to stick to 90m or less. I built a fair bit of strength (relative to where I began) with weights over the winter but found plyometrics a bit too hard going, so am saving them for next season.
CB, it may be better to take a scheduled break: a week or two off running completely.
PRF, I just laughed when I realised the camera was still on me while I was getting my breath back. Didn't you run a 5:09 mile recently? If so, surely 4:50ish is more likely.
Looking forward to listening to the show.
My session tonight was 2 x 1000 @ 1500 with 8 minutes recovery.
The goal was 72/lap. For the first rep I was bang on target but some kids got in the way and the diversion cost me a second or two. But still managed to finish that rep in 2:58
The second rep was going really well as well. I went through 800 in 2:23. Then the wind decided to blow harder than it had or would all evening and I had to struggle against it for the last 200, which took me 40 seconds! So, I finished that one in 3:02. I'm pretty honest with myself in training and really think the wind was to blame for it.
Anyway, I am pretty confident of maintaining 72/lap in a race now. Can't wait until next Wednesday.
Ow, I bit my tongue! Well, I'm still biting it, because of a response on another thread on here. I wanted a go, I really did, but sometimes you have to just let these things slide...
Good night tonight. 120, then the proper session of 200, 300, 300, 200 all run about 85% supposedly to ease up after the competition last night. Estimated times were 34s, 55s, 52s, 33s. Bit quick on that second 300.
I would like to mention everyone again but I always have this difficulty with reading back and quoting people. forever and prf, yes, I'm very tempted by the sprint events. Simon, I think the quicker stuff is paying off, and this is only competition season work - I wonder what it would look like with a proper base and development? MrV, no cheat, Duck's up there with an even shorter race!! And Duck, those 60s must have been really shifting!!
Simon, what's this thing about dropping your cadence because your stride is lengthening? Are you wasting time by leaping higher into the air??
Nice interviewing, prf. Nice drinking, YP.
ok mate. i have trained with sprint groups and middle distance groups, their views are very different regarding training so i'm not to sure what is best to do anymore! what sessions do you do for a basic speed session in your training group then?
Great news YD! Yes you will need to put in your predicted time. Last year I arrived at my pen 'B' 20 minutes before the start to find they'd closed it. A very heated discussion with a bitch in a yellow jacked pursued and she refused to let me in. Other people, who weren't even supposed to be in that pen, were jumping the barrier right in front of us. I wanted to do this but it was quite high and I'm just wee and I didn't think it could! I pleaded and begged and she kept insisting that I would have to go to the back of the race (yes, behind the fancy dress
), telling me that anyone who jumped the barrier would be disqualified. One last attempt failed but the anger drove me over that barrier! I then ran a 4 minute pb. 
And wasn't disqualified. 
Well done Ratzer ... very brave venturing into the 100m but clearly well worth it!
Loved the report Darola, really good racing, though I have to agree with the others you must try harder on the gurn front.
PP – those 400s were pretty good considering you were feeling less than 100%, much faster than mine!
Duck – nice 400m and 60m sessions this week, good to see you back and posting some decent training again.
Last years GNR sounds like a nightmare Minni, though running angry clearly works for you!
I have now claimed my spot and have put my target time in the 75 – 80 mins bracket, so hopefully I will get a decent pen. Must remember to arrive early. Mr V, I assume you put the same time slot in?
Nice effort at the relay prf, see you in the morning.
Ratzer – so you can run really good marathons and very swift 100 meter races, you just need to sort the middle ground out…………sorry, ill get my coat
Good luck for Sunday forever.
2 x 1000 @ 1500 sounds like a mental session to me Simon, and painful.
Nice miles YP
Hope the mojo returns soon CB.
Hope I havent missed anybody?...
10 x 400 with 60 seconds recovery on the road for me last night. Target was 78 – 80 per rep, that’s just under 10 minute 3k pace:
78 (5:14/m)
79 (5:15/m)
77 (5:09/m)
79 (5:15/m)
79 (5:17/m)
80 (5:19/m)
77 (5:09/m)
79 (5:17/m)
79 (5:15/m)
78( 5:10/m)
Legs have been pretty tired all week and I could certainly feel the juice ebb out of my legs as the session progressed and I had to work hard to keep the intensity up. Last time I did the same session I was holding back the pace early on, that was not necessary last night. However, I was blowing out of my arse at the end, so mission accomplished from a CV perspective. I will do the session on fresher legs next week to see what pace I get for a similar effort, much needed rest day today, parkrun tomorrow.
YD - Good session there, sounds like you are nearly back to full strength. Yes I put the same time bracket though I think its unlikely I'll actually finish in it! I arrived about 40 mins before the race last year and was fine. Think I started about 10-12 rows back which given the wide start wasn't a problem. You'll definitely get the front pen (behine elite start) with that time bracket.
PRF - Looks like it will be a 3 way battle now. Although I'm not sure how involved I'll be. I'm thinking up sneaky ploys to get you a poor starting position
>, we tend not to do much below 150m reps in the middle distance group at the club. Although we do sometimes include runs with 50m spurts for a combination of race simulation and speed development.
And plenty of drills are focused towards improving speed and agility.
On my own I have done a few sessions such as sets of 60m @ 95% and 40m all out sprints with full recoveries.
I've also done a couple of sessions of skills sprinting. E.g. 30m @ 95%; 30m @ 100%; 30m @ 95%. also good for both speed development and race simulation and pace judgement.
Ratzer, if I increased my stride length and kept my cadence the same I'd go faster, and I wouldn't want that.
Mr V, whenever you post I get phantom notifications until somebody else posts. What are you up to?
Nice 400s, YD. Doing those on tired legs can be a great mental toughener. I bet you are pleasantly surprised when you do them again fresh.
Interestingly I didn't find the 1000s session all that tough. I think I am about to hit my peak now. I'm full of energy and I just want to race all the time. I'm recovering very quickly from workouts and am finding it very difficult to hold back on easy runs. I just want to go fast all the time.
Ratzer - I thought Steve Ovett had a good range. Sneaking up the WAVA's on a sprint is taking the mick!
YD - Blowing out your arse + consistent splits suggest you nailed it. Really useful session.
Dammit, that's how I was feeling about six weeks ago.
My legs must've been trying harder than I thought on Tuesday, hamstrings still a little stiff today so thought I'd squeeze in another easy 6 miles at lunchtime to loosen things up for tomorrow. HR still the wrong side of 1,000 beats per mile but it all feels just about normal again.
Exactly as Simon pointed out, there's a middle ground that I haven't quite sussed out yet...
I've found that a great cure for that is taking a couple of months off completely. Don't listen to all these do-gooders about racing all the time, just slouch on the sofa, eat pringles and cake, and drink wine.
Nice sesh, YD. I look forward to doing something like that in six months time... I am really looking forward to the results of this GNR. Do they do the tracking thing like the VLM? Minni, I laughed! Lovely PB story!
Simon, a 60m at this time of the year!? Thankfully my 800 would only drop me a place (one above you to be precise!).
Sprinting IS all about technique so to hear you say you tighten up isn't surprising to hear. It's only recently I'm learning to relax in the lower body (shouldes & forearms I need to work on), let the turnover & stride length increase naturally & work on powering off the rear leg. Everything seemed to come together well yesterday which resulted in pretty much matching my 60m pb in training.
Great 2*1000 session. Just keep that peak going until Battersea
>, 250m to me seems to be dipping into the glycolytic stores a bit too much. For basic speed I use < 10s (something like yesterday or 30/40/50/60/70/80) but speed endurance (I'm talking from a sprinter's perspective here) would be up to 200m in length & anything longer would be special endurance. 150s & 200s @ 400 pace have been a 'faster than RP' staple for me this year.
For next year for 4/8 I'll be doing mostly special endurance I & II but the occasional speed endurance session in place of basic speed & vo2 max maintenance. I'm looking forward to seeing how much I improve basically doing bare maintenance on my endurance & working more on sprinting. I had a spending spree on amazon last week so I now have books on sprinting, pylometrics & speed/agility drills to pour over. But any input you have on weights programmes would be appreciated. I'm currently thinking starting off near maximal to develop power & convert some ST fibres back to FT then lowering weight & upping reps nearer to comp period.
cb, how about a few weeks of lower mileage & racing a few parkruns? You've been training well recently so cutting back & just getting a few races in could motivate you more. You'll not lose much, if any, fitness & that magic sub-20's not far away either.
prf, I was a little disappointed to hear I was having to wait until next week to hear your interview!
Ratzer, I'd be lying if I said they didn't feel fast. They do! But they feel so much more relaxed than normal now.
YD, that's shifting for the road! No doubt that session will get you fit quick.
7M today, and parkrun tomorrow. Looking like it's going to be windy again (but in the opposite direction) so will probably be another tactical affair.
my sessions were speed endurance.
2 sets of 100x6 (1 min recovery + 8 minutes recovery between sets)
2 sets of 200mx4 (3 min recovery + 8 minutes recovery between sets)
longer sessions were very short in volume and high in recovery e.g.
3 x 300m with 8 minutes recovery between each 300m
Those sessions look good. Judging by the recovery I assume they were somewhat sub-maximal?
Pretty below-par parkrun this morning, much better conditions than last week resulted in a time 20 seconds slower! Legs felt like lead and I really struggled, splits 5'59/6'08/6'36 (that's not a typo!) for 7th in 19'21. Absolutely nothing in the tank today and this is slower than some tempo runs I've done. Still these days happen & I've had 2 good sessions this week so it was probably right that this one came out as it did. There's a charity 5k on Thursday which I may or may not do but I'm going to start work on 3kp from next week.
Barnsley parkrun this morning for a sort of semi relaxed smackdown with YD as he sets off on his week travels around the country.
But before setting off I had a look at my stats for Barnsley, I have run there just the twice and have a course PB of 18:47. Okay, so that will do as a nice target....it is a tough course but 18:47 should still be within reach.
I then noticed that, after 72 events, the V45 record is 18:20. Hmmm, that looked interesting......
So off we go and I settle in behind the two leaders for half a lap. Then they split, one starts going backwards and the other starts pulling away, so it is already looking like it is shaping up for a 2nd if I can hold off YD. The trouble is I dont know where he is and I know full well that he is just going to loiter and then pounce later.
What I also didnt know was that LS21 (off Sub 3) was also there and tracking me down.
But having got into that position all I could really do was run my own race and see what happens.
To cut a long story short the leader, who I had pretty much conceded the win to, didnt finish in the top 3 and the final 1,2,3 was PRF, YD, LS21.
My time was 18:27 which was a big chunk off my course PB but a tantalising 7 seconds from taking the V45 course record. YD clocked 18:35 in 2nd and LS21 was not far behind that.
So, a pretty good morning had by all really.
Blimey, cracking win for you PRF, I guess the leader went off too fast. (why do so many folks in 5k's set off at 1500m pace??) Nice triple podium for the local threaders too! Congrats to Y D & LS21.
I made a last minute decision to do the York Parkrun today. My legs were still a bit sore from a tortuous hilly 10k on Tuesday (mashed quads from the steep downhill section!) but what the heck. Picked up 8 places on the 2nd lap with even pacing to finish in 20:45. Still a bit rusty but nice to see a bit of progress made. BTW PRF you got a namecheck before the start for organising (pressganging?) last weeks runners for the 'longest' event. Fame at last!
Good effort Duck, as you say no point in fretting over one below par race.
Nice going prf, YD & LS21. I assume you'll be back for that course record soon?
Nice position gaining Wardi. True about today, kind of frustrating though as I finished not really feeling like I'd worked that hard! Just had nothing to give.
Tried out my new pylometrics book this afternoon for my first pylo session - nothing too streneous for my first time (lol) but tried standing long jumps, double leg hops and ankle hops.
Honestly? It was interesting, quite fun and I can definately see how this kind of thing will help. I finished feeling like I do after a BS session so I think I did it right. I measured my standing long jump at 1.9m so it will be interesting to see how this improves over time.
Nice parkrunning PRF, Wardi and Duck.
Sorry not read back, so hope everyone is doing well and enjoying some great running!
I still ticking over, but virus still hanging around. I've decided to just run every day at a pace that feels comfortable and not worry if it's slow as long as I don't feel ill when doing it. Had a nice 8 miles along the trail yesterday, which was the first run all week that I could actually say I enjoyed, so fingers crossed for more like that!
Happy training, enjoy long runs or racing today and a bit of sunshine
Nice park running tales folks. How many do you and Barnsley do prf? I don't always scan this thread throught, but everytime I do, you've done one! Is it 40-50 a year? Or do I just happen to read every time you do one
ps Wardi, those undisciplined fools, going off at 1500 in a 5k eh! You'd never catch me doing that...my sin is more sub 5k pace in a 10miler, or 5k pace in a half
Wardi - Nice to see you looking more positive.
PRF/YD - Nice casual smackdown there. Good to see a forum top 3 as well!
15 miles for me yesterday and a light session today just to keep the legs ticking over for Wednesdays 10k. 6.5 miles with 2x800 and 2x400 thrown in.
Yet more great parkruns being reported - and it makes me feel as though I should give up this autumn marathon training malarkey and just concentrate on shorter distances?
This is particularly tempting given the disappointing run I had today, when I couldn't quite nail my planned 18miles with 12 @ MP....
I've started another thread talking about how I'm finding my MP runs a bit of a challenge, and I think I probably need to slightly downgrade my MP pace, as at the moment I can't even maintain it for 12 miles, so cant see any way that I'm going to be able to maintain it for 26 miles in 9 weeks time
Wardi - Must have been nice to get back on tarmac after last week. It is fascinating to see that even pacing gets exactly the same level of second half position gaining wherever you go.
So what was Helen saying at the start then? Btw there was no pressganging, I was deliberately trying to keep the numbers down for the first one.
Duck - Yep, that course record must now be classed as a tempter.
On the subject of V45 records, yesterday saw the long expected assault on my V45 record at Hull.
The record has been traded a few times with the last three being:
PRF 17:43
TB 17:40
PRF 17:25
Now we knew that TB was in shape to take it down after giving BR a hard time at Huddersfield recently and he told me he was getting ready to take it back (well, Hull is his home course after all) and yesterday was the day for the 'balls on the line' attempt.The result? A big new PB of......17:26! Phew
Stevie - No, we dont do many really.
The actual official tally is 164 at 77 different venues in 3 and a half years, but there have been plenty unofficial ones besides.
Mr V - Tapering already for a Wednesday 10K?
Some good miles yesterday towards your GNR training pot I see. 
17.0 ish miles this morning around a tough hilly Barnsley course. A few pushed along efforts on uphill sections but nothing too strenuous with the bulk of it averaging about 7:20/mile or so. Felt just about right for this stage of affairs.
prf nice win to your name
and good runs from Wardi and Duck.
YP which marathon are you doing? I can't remember how long you have been running or if this is your first marathon? 18 miles with 12 at MP is a tough session at any point in training.
I got my first course record for a race today. To be honest I didn't know they did course records for oldies but at this particular race there was a list up for all age categorys. I didn't see this till after the race though so didn't entice me in anyway.
So my hilly 10k this morning in much better conditions than usual although still warm and very windy at times. Last few years have been mega hot though. Aim was to beat my course best of 48.02 and thought I would be near 45.xx.
Lovely event and not as hilly as I recalled, probably because the conditions were better than usual. I had a good run with the first couple of miles feeling comfortable in 6.58, 6.52 the next mile included the biggest climb in 7.16 then 6.53 and then into wind and a couple of long climbs in 7.14, 7.05. Final sprint on grass to finish in 44.01.
So 4 minutes better than last year
First FV45 and new course record for my age group.
I now have three race to choose from this week......
PRF - Definitely not a taper
. Sunday is normally an easy day so if anything its extra fast running 
. Yep I definitely had the GNR in my mind on yesterdays run - need to get back into the habit of decent length long runs! Lucky escape for you yesterday then!
YP - Are you going to try and race the marathon at your training MP then? Most people have a more aggressive MP for training purposes than they would actually attempt in a marathon race.
Forever - Well done - I knew that 48 minute mark would be smashed
. Nice to hold a course record as well. Are the races on different days? If so I'm sure there's plenty on here who would encourage you to do all 3 
Mr V - to prove how new I am to all this, I did not know that most people had a more aggressive MP for training purposes, and at the moment I don't really have a clear target in mind yet for my marathon.... I am planning to race a half-marathon towards the end of July, and will use this to set my goals for the marathon...
Evening
Hi there thought i pop in and say i'm still alive
Hope to get parkrunning soon i know some of you like inaugurals But then word on the street, or err in the park that there'll be one in Barking which will be easy for me aside the getting up at a unnatural time
I threw all my toys out the pram end of May as i couldn't get pack running properly decided to get the enjoyment factor so i've been running for fun what i like when i like not mega mileage yet but its building back up Did a 10k last week nowt impressive 55:15 but was happy, on a hilly course no speedwork felt good though i looked like death warmed up at the end (where on earth did that expression come from)
Another 10km on Aug 26 Remember the 10km i had planned for March that got cancelled well this is it In memory of the late great Mel Batty so 2 months to et quicker
Yes i've been braking rules left right and centre only up to 25 miles at the mo but that will increase but today i did shy of 9 miles def more than 25% even 33%.
Well done forever on the course record and 1st in your age group!
Good you've found some focus again Pammie and have some targets!
Nice training Mr V!
I had my second comfortable run on consecutive days so am hoping I have turned the corner of the virus. Ran the same route as PRF, but in the opposite direction and an extra 3 miles to record 20 for the day. Really pleased as the middle 10 averaged around 8m/m on a hilly route, which is the fastest I've been able to run all week. All focus is now just to keep things steady and build on my fitness. I have excellent endurance, always have really, but the pace needs to increase, which it should do once clear of the virus.