Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Options
The Middle Ground
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
Simon - Interesting point about the virus/heart rate. I've got a second theory which basically suggests that I'm capable of eeking out a few more beats when I've been relatively well rested after an illness, because the last time I remember seeing HR being way higher than normal during a race was in a HM which was preceded by exactly two weeks of complete non-running. Not sure why this would occur, maybe the heart's stroke volume decreases when it's not been taxed as much for a while??
Tom. - Being a glass half full kinda guy, my brain highlighted the "absence of injury" bit. Glad to see you're doing a bit.
First gym visit for a while. Blimey, I know these things are activity-specific but it feels like I'm unfit again. Just as well there are no V40 rankings for press-ups.
Uncool is the new cool. I hope.
Ran home along the canal last night in the rain ... 7.5M in all and I tried to maintain 81% maxHR for the 5.5M along the towpath. Got eaten by midges (helps with the weight loss I guess)
. Tri day today ... ran to work the direct/midge-free way (5.3M), swam 4x400m of front crawl at lunchtime, and will cycle the 5.3M back this evening.
Darola- don't ask
I've heard bits and pieces from various regulars, I've met Lotte & Mrs D from kelly's thread but no-one aside from that! So pure speculation on my part.
prf, I think so! WHat races is it this time?
Ratzer, since you but bicarobonate of soda in cake does that mean we can get away with eating more of it?
Simon, probably the wrong name for it but hopping around on one leg. Did I really say that? I probably did.
When I'm drunk, probably. Funnily enough I don't sound that much different from prf as I'm originally from the same area.
Pretty full-on training day Dan, all good for the engine building though.
4*0.5M w/90s rec on the road today. Wanted to do 5 but 4 felt enough, averaged 5:32/m which isn't to be sniffed at. I still feel quite sluggish when doing longer intervals which I suspect is me still just trying to get back into harder training again.
Of course you can eat more cake! At least 2-3 hours before maximal efforts to avoid gastric distress.
2x160, 2x80 for me tonight, for a total of 480m therefore way less than 800. All were just a smidge off flat out for me, or loose and relaxed for those who are racing tomorrow. Did an extra 80 at the end just to feel like I'd done something. The two session 80s felt like I was floating - really lovely sensation to feel when running!!
Looks like Thursday could be hard. Might be doing nearly a kilometre.
Wardi - The amazing thing about the V55 doing 17:48 is that there are 21 V55 out there who are quicker than him this year! But well done on the age group win!
forever - And there was me thinking that you had a competitive streak in you.
Ratzer - You should stop opening those emails.
Simon - You're cooool. Nuff said really!
And I can buy into that hand gel theory - everything in moderation I guess.
Who's AB?
Phil - I'm sure there will be V40 rankings for press-ups if you look hard enough.....
Long(ish) socks is the new cool you hope, surely?
Duck - Races are:
Weds - Spencer Arms (need a season's best)
Fri evening - Walkington 10K - Would like another 36:xx and who knows, if evrything clicks, a possible 35:xx.
Sat morning - Stewart parkrun
Sun - Birdsedge/Birdscage/Birdspoo/Birdssomethingorother Challenge (trail race)
10K @ 8:22/mile this evening - about the same distance that Ratzer covers in 10 sessions
Blimey, Ratzer's a proper sprinter now. Not sure what the literature says about chicken nuggets but Usain Bolt swears by them. Allegedly.
prf - That's about as many races as I'm doing over the next month. Good stuff.
I managed 4,800m of effort this evening without a sniff of beetroot or bicarb but it was proper muggy so I might have had a few sips of water. 2 x 3 x 800, 200/400 recovery, all 2:30 - 2:32. Sweaty as hell, hope it freshens up before Thursday. Max HR still pretty high, 198.
That's interesting about the hand gel as I use that at work and seem to get more lurgies than I've ever had!
Nice training PP and sprinter Ratzer! I love the idea of doing some sprinting as I know I'm cut out for it having been a sprinter in my girlie days, but just don't just yet want to give up doing the longer runs.
Tom - good to hear you're running without injury. Long may it continue! If you do fancy a meet up when we're in your neck of the woods just let us know
I thought I had turned the corner with the poison leaving my body and went for some nice runs at the weekend and Monday, but by yesterday I had the mother of all sore throats/headache and am now today off work having struggled through yesterday trying to take classes with hardly a voice. Frustrating to say the least! Oh well at least I know when it clears up I will be able to run okay again as legs felt quite good at the weekend.
I will come on here and post a positive run/race report soon, honest
Tom - ever thought of doing one of this parkruns as a time trial to test your fitness? I would think King's Lynn would be the nearest for you. Alternatively Norwich (definitely one of the most underrated / unsung places I've been to).
We're in that neck of the woods around 22nd July for the Dereham 5k.
Not much time for reading / posting at the moment as the only 1500 I'm thinking of is the amount of exams to mark by the end of next week and the only 10000 is the amount of words I need to complete for a PhD literature review by the same deadline!
Morning all
Ratzer – Are you having a proper go at sprinting then or is this just a phase in your long distance master plan?
Phil – Nice work on the 16.35. I think you’ll have a good chance at sub 16 in the near future when everything lines up. Solid session last night as well. I agree with you it was very humid.
PRF – Good luck with your set of races. I’d be interested to know what the Stewart parkrun course is like once you’ve done it.
Hilly – Bad luck with the illness. I bet your legs will be flying when you get back to it though.
Tynedale 10k for me tonight. Very humid today so I think it could be hard work. It’s also quite an undulating course from what I remember (though a fast downhill start) so I doubt it will be anything too rapid. It’s a very attractive course though so one to just enjoy and to try and run strongly.
BR - Marking is grim work ...but all mine is done and dusted until the August resits
.
Hope things clear up soon Hilly - been a while now!
PRF ... I was hounded out of my long socks at least 12 months ago
. Looks like you're going to be busy again!
Ratzer ... sounds like a very good marathon recovery regime!
Speedy stuff there Duck
(I can't imagine you sounding Yorkshire).
PhilP ... nice sweaty effort. Beats doing press-ups any day.
xpost - Viper ... good luck with the race tonight!
Nothing much to report here ... dropped the kids at out-of-school club this morning, left the car there and cycled in ... will run back tonight. And then reverse the process tomorrow.
Dr Dan ahhhh the socks ......
Duck I remember hearing your voice on one of your video clips. You sounded just as I thought you would!
MrV I'm doing a 10k tonight too and not looking forward to it for the same reason. So humid here.
How can it rain so much but not clear the air? My easy 6 felt tough in the humidity yesterday so tonight should be fun.
MrV, it's supposed to be a phase in the master plan, but I realised when racing that I love it!
DrD, yeah, it sure started out that way, but the way I'm feeling today is stiffness like after a weekend LSR, and we're talking the 20+ mile stuff! 480m can really give you DOMS! Hilly, no need to give up the long stuff, not unless you really want to concentrate on the really short stuff. I still run (admittedly not as far...).
Lots of complaints about the humidity! Today's washout should have sorted that. It's easing up here so I'm looking forward to an easy 3-5. Enjoy your 10ks, forever and MrV!
You're right about the Lynn parkrun..though I have to own up to being pretty scared about the outcome...23mins plus isn't going to do much for my self confidence. I'm also clubless (and clueless!!) at the moment...I'm trying to pluck up the confidence to join a small local club, if I can convince myself I won't get battered if I run with them.
Ho hum...all those low self esteem issues again.
Afternoon!
What's this with the self-esteem, Tom! You should have high self-esteem, not low: just think how many other 60+ guys in society can't run for a bus never mind running a reasonable 5k. Get out there and do a parkrun...and by the way 23.44 would give you just over 70% on WAVA so definitely not bottom of this thread's WAVA table! And if you look at the results of previous King's Lynn parkruns I'm sure you will find that sub 24 will leave half the field trailing!
ratzer, what's the composition of the group you train with? Long sprinters, short sprinters, about equal numbers? 1k's a hell of a lot for the short guys to do!
Are you doing much aside from the sprints sessions? Weights, drills, pylos etc?
great session Phil!
BR, 10000 for a lit review!? now I really know why I didn't want to do a masters
Hope tonight goes well Mr V. Your unusual race distances recently have been pointing towards some good times!
Dan... you'd be surprised! Most of it's gone now as it's been years since I lived there.
Horrendus 5M today - feeling distinctly like I'm in a bit of a trough right now, just need to grin and bear it for a while. Speed calls tomorrow - 2*(200/150/100).
Duck, it's a mix, though most of the girls and juniors are short, and the masters cover sprints round the whole loop. Tomorrow will be the toughest session I've seen in nearly two months. 3x3x150(30s 5mins)+3x100 FRS. That's a session for 800m runners, I reckon! A total of a mile and 41 metres!! I'm looking forward to seeing the result of it on my 400 time, anyway, not that I've got a 400 time to look at... Doing drills in the warmups, weights twice a week but I've dropped the plyos because the sprinting is tough enough. Recovery and easy miles from 40-60mins, a bit too much for sprinting, but in line with the master plan, on non-track days.
Today, for example, 40 mins recovery run. Managed to dodge the rain, too!
EDIT: Forgot to mention, until prf reminded me, that my application for an application for VLM went in this morning. I know, it's not the only marathon!
3*150 off of 30s? That'll get the lactic going! But what's FRS?
The advantage of going for VLM now is that you should be able to make up quite a few places in the final 100m
Ratzer, I have heard that CP can be eked out to 20+ seconds at sub-maximal speeds. I can imagine it being difficult to test the results over a short period (as with everything in running), but I am secretly hoping any benefits are very obvious.
That is definitely an 800 session. A month or so back I did some 150s:
2 x (10 x 150m with ~35" recovery); 8' between sets.
It was pretty gruelling stuff. As a guide I managed to average 25 seconds, which is a touch faster than 800 pace.
If PRF says I'm cool that's good enough for me.
)
Phil, the idea that your heart is willing to do that little bit more when rested is quite persuasive. The only time I've ever recorded my max (200) was at the end of the Cabbage Patch 10 last year when I sprinted for what I thought was the finish, only to find it was a sign to turn the corner and I had to sprint all over again. I don't suppose I can simulate that and trick my central governer in training. Aside from that I have hit 198 a few times.
Duck, what is your mileage like at the moment? Could a sudden increase explain the sluggishness? What are your short term plans (apart from a certain 3 x 1 mile relay and an 800 smackdown
Hilly, yes, look on the bright side and enjoy the leg freshness.
On to my race report
1500 at Battersea Park. I warmed up all ready for 7.50. Race actually started at 8.25. Rarghagr!
Anyway, I wanted to get a fast first lap - 72 was the aim. There ended up being quite a bit of jostling at the start, and I managed to elbow my way into about 5th. It was perhaps a bit unnecessary because two lads overtook me straight away. I went through the first lap in 71. A touch fast, but mainly down to the fast start.
The next 100 felt a bit slow, so I made an effort to overtake the guy ahead down the back straight. I had to go a bit wide going into the corner, but stayed ahead of him to go through the second lap in 75. Not great, but not too bad, I had probably slowed due to a combination of getting stuck for 100m and a slighty too fast first lap.
I got stuck in for the next 300 (always the toughest) and managed it in 55 seconds (equivalent to 73.3/lap).
It was starting to hurt now, but I knew I was on for a PB, even with a mediocre last lap.
Down the back straight the guy I had overtaken me went back past me. I decided not to go with him, because I knew if I kicked with 250 to go I would absolutely die in the home straight. However, I did push it up a notch and with 150 to go I was gaining on him again. I kicked hard, but with 50 to go it was clear I wasn't going to catch him, but I had managed a final lap of 72 seconds. Which means a new PB of 4:33.18 (previous 4:37).
And a brand new WAVA of 76.97
So, splits were OK, but the second lap let me down a little:
71
75
55 (73.3/400)
72
I can almost taste sub 4:30 now. Can't wait until the next one!
Tom - You cant feel out of place at a parkrun....so get yourself down there.
Dr Dan - I hope you havent got rid of the socks, you know what fashion is like - they'll be cool again if you wait a while!
Simon - Knowing you've got enough in the bag to get a PB when theres still 400m to go in a 1500 must be quite an unusual situation. It normally comes down to a second or two, or even fractions of a second, so you must be on quite some improvement curve. My PB is 4:30 so you'll be past that soon.....
And 28 years later I'm just about to have my second attempt at 1500m. Obviously the first one hurt a lot and put me off for a while
).
Spencer's Arms Dash last night, 4th in the series of 6, and a very unusual set of circumstances to deal with - 20c which felt really hot for sections of the race, humid and also muddy. Combined they cost most runners 45+ secs.
The series so far:
Apr: 22:16 (5th/1st vet)
May: 23:35 (7th/3rd vet)
Jun: 22:46 (5th/3rd vet)
Jul: 23:12 (4th/1st vet)
The series always seems to throw up 4 races with dodgy conditions and just a couple with fast conditions, we're due a fast one next time.
Anyway, at least I'm now leading the vet's series for the first time since April
FRS, I believe, is Form Relaxed Sprint. Words to that effect, anyway. Those ones where your legs are still burning up and you try to run properly instead of falling apart.
The advantage of going for VLM now is when I see that 400m to go sign I don't think "Duck's thinking 56s", instead I think "Oh, 56s to go!"
[No, there isn't a sub-60 400 in me yet...]
Simon, fantastic PB yet again! Special. Stringing out CP to 20+ seconds? What's that all about? Isn't that kinda like having a slow explosion? More of a Poooooo than a Pop!
Best positional result this year, prf! I'm sure you'll sub-4:45 tonight.
SImon - Well run and a nice new wava. The speeds you MD folk run as is scary to us long distancers
.
PRF - I sympathise with the conditions - was tough out there last night. But you took care of the important part anyway!
A fairly pedestarian 38.20 for me last night at the Tynedale 10k. Was pretty much what I expected with high humidty and a testing course. Felt more like a tempo run than a race - I never felt like I was working that hard but didn't have an extra gear to get up to race pace. FWIW when I did it 2 years ago I ran 40.30 and then clocked a 38.50 7 weeks later. So hopefully it will be similar this time round.
Simon that wava is creeping up nicely
and sounds promising for your next outing too.
prf and Mr V good runs for you both in horrid conditions last night.
I'm another who knew the race wasn't going to be fun last night.
At seven o'clock last night the sun was shining and my car dial read 27c!!! add in the humidity and you can imagine what fun my 10k was
It really was awful. It's an out and back course - out gradual climb from about 2.5 km - turnaround and back so a nice downhill section which usually results in a faster second half.
Lots of familiar faces from Sunday so was quite surprised to overtake a lady who beat me by 45 secs on Sunday but didn't get too excited as this was going up the hill and it was tough in the conditions.
I hit halfway in 22.04 and was so glad to be going downhill but found it really hard to pick up the pace and couldn't wait for the second water stop.
I overtook a few people but was passed by a couple and felt my face was on fire. I was soooooo hot. Couldn't wait for the end and really felt like throwing up at the line. Finish time by my watch 44.08 - perfect splits lol
I haven't seen the results and had to shoot off straightaway but the lady I mentioned never overtook me again so will be interesting to see others times.
Recovery run felt fine this morning though so all good
and another hard session in the bag.
Great racing from forever, Viper and PRF. And
Simon
!! Very speedy stuff!
According to my son, he came 4th in the junior race at the LSAA High School Athletic League finals last night ... and 2nd in javelin
. I couldn't get there and the official results are not up yet. His rival at school came 4th in the 800m ... they meet next week at Sports Day for the big smackdown at 800m ...he's been hyped about it for weeks now ... its like Coe/Ovett all over again
.
5.3M running back from work last night via A65 and then 7.65M running to work on the canal this morning. Cake baking down at below 70%maxHR.
prf, Mr V, forever - I don't envy you the conditions last night. I was sticky as a sticky thing just walking home from work. Sterling efforts all round.
Duck - Equally, you can probably put a lot of what you're feeling down to "something in the air". I think we need a major shift in the North Atlantic Drift to get everyone feeling right again!
Simon - congrats on another consecutive PB. Was it just the one race or more than one? Club mate of mine (the guy who narrowly beat me on Saturday) ran as a guest in a race at Battersea last night in 4:24 for a narrow PB, probably noticeable by his orange shorts (it's a bit of a trend!) Sounds like the race went a little different from before so I guess all good experience for pacing and must be more to come when you can nail it.
...OK, it looks like I will be entering into this MD malarkey of my own volition after all! Not sure whether this is because of all the MD talk on here whetting my appetite (probably), an excuse to get some more PBs/rankings on the go, or just because it's virtually on my doorstep, but instead of travelling all the way down to Brighton for a 10k in a couple of weeks I'll probably be jogging 2 miles to Eltham to do a British Milers' Club open 1,500 instead. You up for a ~4:30 smack-down Simon?
Forever - Sounds like a decent time in the conditions and perfect pacing
. Like you say its a good hard session as well. Remind me of your PB?
Dan - Good luck to mini Dan in the smackdown! It seems like your fitness is starting to make a good return?
A bit of PO10 stalking shows most of the folks finishing around me last night have been around the 37 minute mark in other 10ks this year. So I think that shows a solid effort last night.
Mr V my pb is 42.21 but I have just seen last night results and the ladies race winner ran 42.22 - in the same race I set my pb she ran 39.35 - and she runs pretty consistently. Overall results have made me very happy with my run last night and how things are progressing.
Your result looks promising too and it always is good training.