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The Middle Ground
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Well done Simon (again). I'm going to call you 'Forever Mk. II' from now on. It does look like your distances are starting to fall into line with one another nicely now.
I've heard similar with regards to CP. For an 800 using CP for as long as possible to delay the use of the glyclolytic stores is ideal.
Last 2 weeks have been just under 50 which is the highest I've done for a while, so I'm pretty sure that's the explanation. I'm not concerned, it's just a bit of a grind right now. Short term plans are to get a 400 in next month @ SAL (hopefully sub-56) & get MD speed endurance back (focusing more on 1500/mile workouts than 800 this time out). I'm also testing the waters with sprint speed endurance too.
As for any talk of smackdown... no way, not right now! Not with me being horrendusly un-800m-race-fit & you in the form you are.
prf/Mr V/forever, sounds good considering the conditions/course. prf - I know next to nothing about the race series but from the sounds of it, it's more like an XC race?
Ratzer, ok, that makes sense.
Dan, how long until you get mini-Coe onto Hadd?
I'm marshalling at the charity 5k tonight - don't feel up to racing right now. But heading into the track soon to run some stuff quite fast (I hope).
No chance ... getting him to do ANY training is next to impossible. He's definitely one for joining the camp of BR/PRF ... race yourself fit
. Good luck with the fast stuff later.
forever and MrV ... the Po10 stalking etc certainly shows how well your races went. Nice
.
Ooh, the Simon/PP smackdown sounds good!
How disconcerting would it be to start off a 1500 and have someone chatting to you? Just an evil thought...
forever, well raced under those conditions! Another stream of PBs coming for you soon!
MrV calls a 38.20 10k 'pedestrian'. I'm not coming back up to long distance. (I'll just keep that WAVA competitive by growing older!)
DrD, you're managing a few miles at the moment. How are things looking? When's your next fitness check?
ratzer- I had a question for you. I've been looking at becoming a better spritner (obviously) which would mean getting my FT fibres better trained etc, however there's conflicting ideas about whether ST fibres can be changed to FT or not. Some say they can, others can't, and some say they can't but 'detraining' one allows the others to be the 'dominant' fibres type or something along those lines. Thoughts?
Ratzer - I suppose I should have added 'for me' to that statement. In the same way that when I post that I've I ran a really fast 5k the reality is I've only matched Phil's HMP
.
Duck - How come you are hitting higher mileages at the moment? Is it like a mid season mini base?
Forever - Sounds very positive then. I never PB during summer but I love those autumn races when things cool down and you seem to have 2 extra gears to access!
PRF, I have found that the middle distance training and racing is doing wonders for my pace judgment.
Nice race from you, and your positions compared to the other races back up unfavourable conditions.
Ratzer, It was a BMC News article that I read it in. I was tempted to look for it, but the boss sits behind me now
and well done for holding that lady off.
I need to get in a sub-60 400 this season. My current PB of 60.3 is a bit irritating.
Mr V, what's really scary is that some people hold that pace for 26 miles. I can well see you taking a chunk off next time if you're feeling good and the PO10 stalking is promising.
forever, great splits
Phil, bring it on! I was planning on going down to Crawley for their open meet on the 18th, but if there is a smackdown I will happily travel in the opposite direction. There is also an open 1500 at Tooting Bec on Saturday 21st that I'm doing if we need a rematch.
I ran the 1500 fresh last night, but did run the first leg of the 4 x 200 after. Good relay fun and I actually finished ahead of somebody.
Not only do I have a new WAVA, but I temporarily move up to the top of Division 2 and second overall thanks to the new month
Poor Phil all alone in Division 1. Looks like March was a good month for people.
MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (April- July)
Calculator here: http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/wmalookup06.html
83.98% PhilPub (HM, 1:12:48, May)
76.47% Simon E (1500m, 4:33.18, July)
74.50% YD (5K, 17:31, April)
73.94% Minni (10K 42.57 April)
72.73% Ratzer (100m, 14.2, June)
72.68% Mr V (5K 17.45 June)
71.95% Dash (10K, 39:47, April)
70.10% YoungPup (5K, 19:29, June)
68.63% Dr.Dan (5K, 20:40, June)
67.40% Darola (5K, 21:12, June)
64.94% CB (5K, 20:25, April)
Need Updating:
85.56% Hilly (10K, 39:13, March)
85.32%Treadmill (5M, 29:47, March)
83.78% BR (10K, 34:10, March)
81.40% PRF (5K, 17:25, March)
78.78% Duck (60m, 8.2, March)
78.46% forever (HM 1.31.49 March)
Okay ... I think
... mileage is still modest. So far, since comeback, 4 weeks at 27 mpw, then 5 weeks at at 37 mpw. Last week was a cut-back to 20 (due to abandoned Tri and then no LSR) ... I think that worked out well as I was getting a bit concerned about an injury above my left ankle. Since start of June, 7 x MP sessions and several 14M runs. Next fitness test is the Eccup 10M race ... errr, in 10 days time 
.
Meanwhile the LSAA results have been posted ... the boy managed 5:23.7 in the 1500m ... his classmate rival managed 2:43.2 in the 800m (compares with 2:45, 2:40 and 2:44.8 from junior so far this year). Sports day should be interesting
.
I decided to make today another Tri day and so went to the pool at lunchtime ... 64 lengths (1600m) of front crawl, non-stop, in 36:40 (400m splits 8:50, 9:10, 9:15, 9:25). Passed the 1500m point at 34:20. Slow as it is, I think this neverthless constitutes a PB
.
Duck, sounds like a good plan, but that is pretty high mileage for this time of year. I'm running 20-30 at the moment and wouldn't want to race on any more than that. I'm not sure how long it will last. As for smackdowns, your 800 PB is still about two seconds better than mine (2:12.6), is it not? I'll leave the proper science to Ratzer, but I believe that there are intermediate fibres that are "undecided" and can go either way.
Ratzer, I am already working on a race strategy. I don't want to reveal too much, but tonight's planned session is 4 x 400 with "whistle bursts". That's not when the coach blows a whistle and you sprint, that's when you practise whistling as you overtake people.
Need to jump in quickly and grab that second spot before the big guns appear
I also need to find a fast cool race
MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (April- July)
Calculator here: http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/wmalookup06.html
83.98% PhilPub (HM, 1:12:48, May)
76.92% forever (5k 21.17 June)
76.47% Simon E (1500m, 4:33.18, July)
74.50% YD (5K, 17:31, April)
73.94% Minni (10K 42.57 April)
72.73% Ratzer (100m, 14.2, June)
72.68% Mr V (5K 17.45 June)
71.95% Dash (10K, 39:47, April)
70.10% YoungPup (5K, 19:29, June)
68.63% Dr.Dan (5K, 20:40, June)
67.40% Darola (5K, 21:12, June)
64.94% CB (5K, 20:25, April)
Need Updating:
85.56% Hilly (10K, 39:13, March)
<div class="forum-post-signature"> <div class="post-controls">85.32%Treadmill (5M, 29:47, March)
83.78% BR (10K, 34:10, March)
81.40% PRF (5K, 17:25, March)
78.78% Duck (60m, 8.2, March)
Ooh, Duck, are you tittillating my scientific bent?
There is a school of thought which believes that FT is the default fibre type. Therefore sitting on your gluteus maximus doing nothing leads to aerobically trained muscle fibres 'reverting' to become anaerobically untrained muscle fibres - sorry, loose terminology, STs revert to FTs. This is one major reason why sprinters do sod all aerobic training, and try to do as little as possible except their hard sprint sessions and gym power training. Even walking trains a muscle aerobically, and could lead to an unwanted (minor) FT to ST shift. (It's also why I'm a very slow sprinter at the moment, but that's not what the training is about.)
There is very little doubt that athletes are made, not born. Of course that 1% that takes you under 10s for the 100m could be the luck of your genetic mixed bag, but we all start at similar points, with 45-55% FT fibres, yet experienced endurance runners can be 70% ST, and sprinters as much as 80% FT. Far more dominant than your genetics are what you did as a kid, and moreso what you train for now.
A relevant read.
What a lovely x-post. forever ends Simon's briefest of moments of glory!!
I will have a look through the Brit Milers' and see what's of interest.
I've been practising nonchalance in my sprinting sessions. That's a combination of easing up the moment you've gone past someone, and staying stood up straight, even chatting, after you've crossed the line. People get really wound up... I find it more difficult to train than speed!
Wonder what just happened to RW? Couldn't post for an hour...
Sorry, forever, I didn't update mine properly so you're back in third
MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (April- July)
Calculator here: http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/wmalookup06.html
83.98% PhilPub (HM, 1:12:48, May)
76.97% Simon E (1500m, 4:33.18, July)
76.92% forever (5k 21.17 June)
74.50% YD (5K, 17:31, April)
73.94% Minni (10K 42.57 April)
72.73% Ratzer (100m, 14.2, June)
72.68% Mr V (5K 17.45 June)
71.95% Dash (10K, 39:47, April)
70.10% YoungPup (5K, 19:29, June)
68.63% Dr.Dan (5K, 20:40, June)
67.40% Darola (5K, 21:12, June)
64.94% CB (5K, 20:25, April)
Need Updating:
85.56% Hilly (10K, 39:13, March)
85.32%Treadmill (5M, 29:47, March)
83.78% BR (10K, 34:10, March)
81.40% PRF (5K, 17:25, March)
78.78% Duck (60m, 8.2, March)
Just been looking up what times I need to maintain my WAVA. Bleedin' eck, need more speed work!
Simon - marvellous, I've confirmed entry for Eltham.
According to fetch, Tuesday's visit to the gym was the first for 6 weeks. Slacker! My core feels like I've been beaten up in the ribs. Inner thighs also rather sore from lunges. That's all the old man excuses out of the way. Weather actually looks quite good for a 5k in Battersea Park this evening. It all happens in Battersea these days.
Sorry Simon I didn't realise April still counted
..............and what was prf saying about me being competitive........
MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (April- July)
Calculator here: http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/wmalookup06.html
83.98% PhilPub (HM, 1:12:48, May)
77.97% forever (10k 42.34 April)
76.97% Simon E (1500m, 4:33.18, July)
74.50% YD (5K, 17:31, April)
73.94% Minni (10K 42.57 April)
72.73% Ratzer (100m, 14.2, June)
72.68% Mr V (5K 17.45 June)
71.95% Dash (10K, 39:47, April)
70.10% YoungPup (5K, 19:29, June)
68.63% Dr.Dan (5K, 20:40, June)
67.40% Darola (5K, 21:12, June)
64.94% CB (5K, 20:25, April)
Need Updating:
85.56% Hilly (10K, 39:13, March)
85.32%Treadmill (5M, 29:47, March)
83.78% BR (10K, 34:10, March)
81.40% PRF (5K, 17:25, March)
78.78% Duck (60m, 8.2, March)
+1
Ow, that's hurting! At the time it felt great, much easier than doing shorter sessions. Like doing a 10x400 session or something. More natural for a distance runner. But now I can feel the effects of so much lactate! Really hurting. This stuff better damn work!!
So that was 3x3x150 (30 : 5) 3x100 FRS, and confirmation that FRS is actually Fast Relaxed Strides. So I was nearly right. One word was right.
ha ha, loving seeing the non-competitive side of forever!
So much to say - so little time,
Well raced Mr V, Forever, PRF and Simon (
for Simon!)
I realise my latest WAVA was only an imporvement of something like 0.001, but there's no need to ignore it
6.5 sticky gentle miles tonight. Am about to pack stuff for running tomorrow morning. Will see how I feel tomorrow to judge distance / pace etc.
Mr V - yes, that's been the idea of the past 2 weeks. Simon from now on it's lower mileage so hopefully things will fall into place. I have SAL next weekend so next week will probably be about 10M total!
I'll update the WAVA table in my next post.
Simon, I thought you'd run close to sub-2'11 this year! Well in that case bring it on
Yes my good sir, yes indeed!
Thanks for the reply, I get what you're saying... I think. So basically less aerobic training, in conjunction with more anaerobic/sprint training = more FT?
fast relaxed strides... aka sprinter's recovery
So anyway I got myself down to the track today. The Cameroon team arrived a few days ago (they're using the Sports Village as their training camp) and a quick call confirmed that while they had a few lanes booked I was more than welcome to use the track too.
i was fancifully expecting to train alongside the Cameroon elites, one of them spots me, I get made an honorary Cameroonian and compete in the 2016 games. By the time I got to the track I'd already decided on my pre-race pose I'd use before breaking the 400m world record.
There was no-one there. Choking back my tears, my dream gone, I did my session.
200/150/100/200/150 w/7'30 rec & 15 mins between the 100 & 200. 200s @ 400, 150s w/50 @ 400, 100 all-out, and the 100 all-out.
Went 26.0, 19.3, 12.7 (!!), 26.2, 19.8. The 200s were great, I really got a good pace going and while I was definately not relaxing I wasn't all out. The 100.... it was hand timed but still quicker than I was expecting by quite a bit. By the final 150 I was feeling tired which reflects the slower time. As this kind of session's more about quality over quantity I stopped there.
I've got the confidence now that I can go ~26.5 for the first 200 next Saturday without it being too difficult.
MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (April- July)
Calculator here:http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/wmalookup06.html
83.98% PhilPub (HM, 1:12:48, May)
77.97% forever (10k 42.34 April)
77.46% Duck (800m, 2'10.58, May)
76.97% Simon E (1500m, 4:33.18, July)
74.50% YD (5K, 17:31, April)
73.94% Minni (10K 42.57 April)
72.73% Ratzer (100m, 14.2, June)
72.68% Mr V (5K 17.45 June)
71.95% Dash (10K, 39:47, April)
70.10% YoungPup (5K, 19:29, June)
68.63% Dr.Dan (5K, 20:40, June)
67.40% Darola (5K, 21:12, June)
64.94% CB (5K, 20:25, April)
Need Updating:
85.56% Hilly (10K, 39:13, March)
85.32%Treadmill (5M, 29:47, March)
83.78% BR (10K, 34:10, March)
81.40% PRF (5K, 17:25, March)
I like this, I now get to stay in the 80%+ league until the end of Sept
. I might put my feet up now......
MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (April- July)
Calculator here:http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/wmalookup06.html
83.98% PhilPub (HM, 1:12:48, May)
81.22% PRF (10K, 36:37, June)
77.97% forever (10k 42.34 April)
77.46% Duck (800m, 2'10.58, May)
76.97% Simon E (1500m, 4:33.18, July)
74.50% YD (5K, 17:31, April)
73.94% Minni (10K 42.57 April)
72.73% Ratzer (100m, 14.2, June)
72.68% Mr V (5K 17.45 June)
71.95% Dash (10K, 39:47, April)
70.10% YoungPup (5K, 19:29, June)
68.63% Dr.Dan (5K, 20:40, June)
67.40% Darola (5K, 21:12, June)
64.94% CB (5K, 20:25, April)
Need Updating:
85.56% Hilly (10K, 39:13, March)
85.32%Treadmill (5M, 29:47, March)
83.78% BR (10K, 34:10, March)
Stupid WAVA table
Sorry no time to really read back, but can see forever and Simon did races, so well done guys. Hope to catch up properly soon!
Age before beauty...
84.68% Hilly (5K, 19:20, April)
83.98% PhilPub (HM, 1:12:48, May)
83.19% BR (10k, 34:40, June)
77.97% forever (10k 42.34 April)
77.46% Duck (800m, 2'10.58, May)
76.97% Simon E (1500m, 4:33.18, July)
74.50% YD (5K, 17:31, April)
73.94% Minni (10K 42.57 April)
72.73% Ratzer (100m, 14.2, June)
72.68% Mr V (5K 17.45 June)
71.95% Dash (10K, 39:47, April)
70.10% YoungPup (5K, 19:29, June)
68.63% Dr.Dan (5K, 20:40, June)
67.40% Darola (5K, 21:12, June)
64.94% CB (5K, 20:25, April)
Need Updating:
85.32%Treadmill (5M, 29:47, March)
81.40% PRF (5K, 17:25, March)
84.68% Hilly (5K, 19:20, April)
83.98% PhilPub (HM, 1:12:48, May)
83.19% BR (10k, 34:40, June)
81.22% PRF (10K, 36:37, June)
77.97% forever (10k 42.34 April)
77.46% Duck (800m, 2'10.58, May)
76.97% Simon E (1500m, 4:33.18, July)
74.50% YD (5K, 17:31, April)
73.94% Minni (10K 42.57 April)
72.73% Ratzer (100m, 14.2, June)
72.68% Mr V (5K 17.45 June)
71.95% Dash (10K, 39:47, April)
70.10% YoungPup (5K, 19:29, June)
68.63% Dr.Dan (5K, 20:40, June)
67.40% Darola (5K, 21:12, June)
64.94% CB (5K, 20:25, April)
Need Updating:
85.32%Treadmill (5M, 29:47, March)
Oi !!!!!!
X-post: I'll let you off then!
Congratulations to Mr V, forever, Phil, prf, and Simon for the recent great races, and to Duck, Ratzer, Dr Dan and everyone else who is getting in some good training.
My training is continuing, and since the tough run at the weekend I've had a few decent sessions including my first VOmax intervals session of 5*800 @5k pace... Thanks for all the comments and explanations re MP, and for being patient with me asking dumb questions. Hopefully lesson learnt re not slavishly following the schedule, and onwards and upwards ( at least till the next time!)
Phil, blimey If you match your WAVA over 1500 it won't be much of a race I'm afraid.
Ratzer, well done on the session. Did you cool down properly? The couple of times I haven't after lactate-inducing sessions I've suffered
Duck, a shame about the Cameroonians, but nice speedy intervals there,. I wish I could run that fast. I may have the opportunity to do a 200 on Monday and 27.xx would be nice.
YP, nice first interval session. When are you going for that sub 19?
The session at the club tonight was alternating 200s and 800s. I used the 200s for 800 pace practice and just ran the 800s at about threshold pace. I'm pretty good at hitting 32 seconds for 200 now while running relaxed. Now I just need to do four of them in a row.
MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (April- July)
Age before beauty...Calculator here:http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/wmalookup06.html
84.68% Hilly (5K, 19:20, April)
83.98% PhilPub (HM, 1:12:48, May)
83.19% BR (10k, 34:40, June)
77.97% forever (10k 42.34 April)
77.46% Duck (800m, 2'10.58, May)
76.97% Simon E (1500m, 4:33.18, July)
74.50% YD (5K, 17:31, April)
73.94% Minni (10K 42.57 April)
72.73% Ratzer (100m, 14.2, June)
72.68% Mr V (5K 17.45 June)
71.95% Dash (10K, 39:47, April)
70.10% YoungPup (5K, 19:29, June)
68.63% Dr.Dan (5K, 20:40, June)
67.40% Darola (5K, 21:12, June)
64.94% CB (5K, 20:25, April)
Need Updating:
85.32%Treadmill (5M, 29:47, March)