Sub 3h15



  • Welcome back to Nicko and Lorenzo

    DT – Well done on the PB in your highest weekly mileage week! Good 10 miler today with promising HR. Enjoy the massage – shudder..

    Leslie – I hope your knee improves. Steady HM completed with a strong finish.

    Stevie – Great fast interval session. Good luck in the 10k  - 36:xx?

    GD – Good 12 miler- I find running at a decent pace harder, not easier after a few days off.

    Gul – Good to read your HR is coming down. Good recovery miles.

    Yesterday, I did my last interval session (5x1 mi) before Berlin and it was interesting. I felt good as it started and was hoping for around 6 m/m pace. However, as I ran the first interval around football pitches I felt flat. I checked my Garmin about halfway and was only running at 6:52 pace. I considered scrapping the session or changing to a tempo run. I decided to continue as my first interval is usually my slowest, and see what I could manage.

    I changed my route and finished the mile on harder ground on for 6:44. The second interval improved to 6:24 but still well down on what I wanted. Thankfully, by the third interval I had loosened up and managed it in 6:05. So I thought that a progressive session would give me some piece of mind. Happily I managed 6:00 on the penultimate mile and then gave it everything to manage 5:55 on the last. Phew!

    So I don’t really know what happened, as I’ve never had such a bad start and decent finish in a session before. Usually if it starts bad it doesn’t improve too much and I put it down to fatigue. Taper madness maybe!   

  • Badbark - 36:XX would be a dream goal which is probably my limit, its a nice course though so could be possible. Good interval reps. I'm interested, what effort would those be at?
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    pleasing start to the week here, after a couple of lesser weeks ;  6 Mon, 6 yesterday, 15.5 today ( started at 7:45, with bright sun & crisp air - beautiful . . .    
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Good session, Badbark. Just as well you persevered and got it where you wanted as in times of taper that would have had a disproportionate mental effect!

    Good early weeks running Birch!

    I went for a staple 5 at mp with 1 wu  and 1 cd today. My legs are feeling trashed and the sun was out so I sort of persuaded myself that something just below 7mm would be fine! Standard target for these runs is 6.45-6.50 average and 160 bpm. Despite the leg fatigue and it being a good bit warmer than yesterday I came in 6.42 for 157 average hr which I was pleased with.

    Massage tonight will hopefully loosen things off as I am planning a 20 tomorrow evening.

  • Hi Guys, it's been a while.
    Looks like I have gone and entered the Manchester Marathon again!
  • Welcome back KR. Get involved, mate. Loads of good stuff from the troops on here recently.

    Warm again tonight, 24 degrees on the way home from work. Had to do an 8 miler. Legs felt tired again but managed to push them to 6.49 pace for the trip. 
    Big wedding anniversary tonight and milestone birthday for the wife tomorrow means I'm squeezing runs out where I can.

    I feel I'm down on natural pace at the moment but I think it's just campaign fatigue. Rest day tomorrow as I go present shopping with the wife and then a 20 miler on Friday.
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Welcome back KR!
    Very odd that Badbark, hopefully you'll feel fresher as the week goes on.
    Cut back week here, just 15 miles over 3 days.
  • DT19 - couple of good sessions there; hope the massage has done some good. I'm sure I had a GPS watch for that race, but don't remember it being over-distance particularly.
    Stevie - that's a cracking target, but attainable given the paces you have been hitting in your training.
    Badbark - strange one - taper madness, as you say!
    Birch  - sounds like an enjoyable MLR yesterday - nice work.
    KR - great to hear from you again! How have you been lately?
    GD - congratulations to you both. Shopping isn't really a rest day though ;)
    OO - could be a great race for you on Sunday, I feel.
    12 miles this morning with 6 @ LT effort. Did laps round the park which my old watch used to measure as 0.98 or 0.99 miles. New watch only measured it as 0.9 - 0.91. Glancing at my watch now and then showed the pace all over the place but it was a pretty consistent effort. It gave my average pace as 6:48/m (for the [email protected]). Presume my old watch would have given a significantly faster pace. Now I can check the stats for each mile, I notice that the "best pace" was as fast as 4:10/m! Obviously a bit of an issue with GPS due to clouds or trees or whatever. Avg HR was 144 which doesn't sound right either. Max was 173 in the first of the LT miles and then it dropped down, with the max for the final LT mile being 143. No point worrying over the accuracy of the stats. The proof will be in the pudding come race day.
  • Congratulations to you and your wife G-Dawg! Hope you survive shopping and tomorrows 20 goes well.

    DT - Nice MP run, especially on tired legs. When is York Marathon?

    Gul - Nice LT run, they are my favourite sessions, enjoy the chance to open the legs for an extended period. My watch is all over the place as soon as there is a hint of tree cover.

    8 miles last night at 8.16/m which felt effortless. Wore my HR strap and returned an average HR of 131 which I think is fairly accurate. Will wear it for Sunday's 10k to test the accuracy at race effort.

  • Good 12 miles there Gul. I believe GPS watches can have wobbles sometimes. I did 8 x 400m reps last night round the cinder track. Each one came up at 0.22 of a mile. I just went off the times instead.

    My training has been sporadic to say the least, some weeks 1 or 2 runs, then another with 40 miles. So the the consistency has gone out to f the window. I'm hoping to get that back now!
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    eyup, kr - good to see you back :)
  • Gul - Ah I was probably confusing that one with another GER that you ran and I think it was 1:26 too but maybe it was a good few years ago? Iirc there was a grass finish? 

    DT - I know what you mean about the feeling when you have rest days. My left calf has been annoying me and other weird feelings in my legs having not run since Sunday. Last year I got injured about 5 weeks from my marathon and almost had to bin it but I got some treatment and decided to try get round. My wheels came off at 25k! It wasn't pretty. The previous year similar, injured again but this time from about 30k I was a gonner. Horrendous experiences both and shockingly poor times too. I'm hoping I can get through the next few weeks unscathed and give it a decent crack but it won't be very quick. Re the course measurement on GPS watches. My Old Garmin used come up fairly bang on with most course. A pal had the same watch and we both ran a half and mine measured 13.14 and hers about 13.2x. I have a Suunto now and the measured courses I've ran have been almost down to a few metres within the distance. It will be interesting to see what it reads for Jersey marathon. 

    KR - Welcome back! I'm tempted by Manc again after my farcical run in 2016. I like the course. 

    G-Dawg - There's nothing wrong with 6:4x's for an 8 miler even if it felt harder than it should. You'll smash the same run out again I'm sure when you feel fresher. Congrats on the milestone anniversary. 

    Birch - Good to see you with your pecker up! Nice training. Parkrun this weekend? 

    Stevie - I love the way you've gone from a sub 38 to 36:xx. You're gonna fly Sunday but remember, 10k's can be a real tough one if the wheels come off at around 6k. I've lost a minute or two in some bad ones but I think you'll run a very quick time whatever happens. 

    Badbark - I think we've all had those kinda runs. You'll be grand, it's surely taper madness. 

    Managed to squeeze in a couple runs this week. Nothing of note mileage wise but ticking over. 5k tonight @ 6:15 pace. Very breezy out but didn't feel too difficult, I felt sluggish to begin with a couple of 6:20's then a 6:0x with a 5:5x finish. I'm hoping to get a MLR in tomorrow before I hit the Guinness. Fly out tomorrow early evening and back on Monday night and then back to some more serious training before the taper begins. OO - T-30 now. :wink:

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Gerard, yes I can look at all my rest days this year and see I felt worse for it compared to the alternative weeks where I might have done a spin class or a 5k recovery. 

    why do you feel the mara won't be fast? I recall the course profile us not great so do you mean fast generally or fast due to profile?

    I spent 5 minutes today on Strava looking at GER 16. The measurements ranged from 13.13 to 13.30. Quite strange to have such an inconsistent range. 

    Congrats on the anniversary g-dawg. Decent 8. 

    Stevie, Yorkshire is 14th october. 6 weeks Sunday. As Gerard says, it can be quite easy to get a little greedy when it's all going well and chase sub 37 and end up with 38.30 when you are capable of 37.30. I think you need to pick a target now and stick with it and pace for it. if you feel good at 7k then go harder as opposed to going hard for 7k then falling apart. 

    Gul is this an optical hr?

    A very pleasant and ridiculously comfortable 20 tonight despite heavy legs. Average pace was 8.05 and hr was 139. Barely touched the sides which is backed up by garmin training effect and Strava sufferscore. I've taken a risk completely front loading this week following a raced half but I seem to have got away with it and it gives me more chance of tapering well for the Worcester half as effectively my planned training over next 3 days is now taper level stuff. 
  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭
    edited September 2018
    DT - The simple answer to your question is because I have a terrible history with the marathon and yes it's a tough course. But to give you more insight as to why I feel this way is because.....I think most would say it's 5 mins or more slower than a flat one. To put things in perspective, In recent years the sponsor has waved some cash at sub elite Africans with times in the range of 2:09 - 2:15. When I say sub elite, I mean yeah these guys are very fast by anyone's standards but not the cream of the crop and they've all but one or two failed to break 2:20.

    I've spoken to some of them afterwards and they've all said it's very difficult to run a fast time. Not only because of the profile but there's about 4 miles or more on a trail path which is a pain to try and get traction on and at 16 miles in and then again from 20 to 22.5 it's not conducive to fast running by anyone's standards. I'm not selling it as a good one to do but it's a lovely course but certainly not a pb one for fast runners. I ran 3:27 in 2013 which was my second one after a 3:29 debut in London 2013. Then ran it under trained and over weight in 2015 and got round in 3:20. I've not done it since then but other ones I've done have been slower because of injury etc. I'd say I might have a shot of a 3:1x but the odds are stacked against me given all of the above. I'd be happy with a pb but over the moon with a sub 3:15. I'll focus on a proper attempt of a fast marathon next year (all things being relative) but the main objective for me for this one is not to fade too badly in the last 10k or so and to try and enjoy the experience and have the craic with OO who will be jogging it. Nice 20 in the bank with a low avg HR too. 
  • DT,Gerard - The plan is to run to feel for the first 7k then try to push on from there. I think I've got a fairly good idea of what 10k pace feels like so hopefully should be ok. We will find out Sunday! Great 20 DT, how many is that now? Gerard it doesn't sound the fastest course but I'm sure you will have a great day out with OO.

    OO - Good luck at GNR on Sunday, to you and your daughters.

    Anyone else racing at the weekend?

  • Stevie - good luck on Sunday.
    KR - hope you can find some consistency now.
    GM - yes, that's right. GER 2013 86:34 - about a 5 min PB, I think. (Noticed that I seem to be running GER as a sort of HM interval session with decreasing recoveries; 4 years, 3 years, 2 years...) I've only ever run one HM that wasn't GER. Nippy 5k - have a good weekend.
    DT19 - cracking 20 miler - looking good for Sunday. Yes, it is an optical HR, so wouldn't be too surprised with poorer quality of readings. I don't think my watch will pair with my chest strap.
    8 mile recovery run this morning (avg pace 8:20/m).
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Gerard, OK so a mix of course and previous mara experience. I'm not sure I could put in the effort and the recovery period to run a marathon that didn't at least have the prospect of yielding a fast time.

    Stevie, that's 6 now. Despite my legs being tired that was the most comfortable 20  I can ever recall. It's pretty hilly around my area and that was my 'flat' route' and still came in with 850 feet of elevation gain, which I understand is 3-4 times the elevation gain of the Yorkshire marathon. I was a bit worried about getting home at 9, eating dinner and lying down. When you run in the morning you can spend the day moving about to keep things flushed. I usually half a bath and a good stretch after a long run but last night it was a shower and dinner followed by wine. Woke up feeling absolutely fine though. 1 more planned 2 weeks Sunday.

    Good luck Sunday, i'm sure an excellent time awaits!

    Planning 5 at recovery over lunch. I have gym classes tomorrow morning as they do kids classes at same time then Sunday is a bit tricky (wife away until Monday) and will allow nothing unless I can persuade friends to have kids for an hour in the afternoon.

    I am still to enter the Cheltenham half. I have been looking at some Milton Keynes half on the same weekend on the Saturday afternoon with a 1pm start. It looks a pretty low key affair. If I raced it, based on last year i'd be in the top 5. It might just work better as my son has just moved into contact Rugby and it is their first competitive match on the Sunday morning which i'd like to be at.

  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    DT - nice 20 - very encouraging that it was comfy  . . .    

    Stevie & the OO mob - have a good race - dbs  :) 
    Gerard - have a great weekend - hope you bagged the run today.   No, no parkrun for me tomorrow - looks like one of the mix n match sessions  - my daughter is joining me and a couple of VoGit pals; we'll all do around 4.5 mainly off road, slowly climbing out of the city, then onto my rural road loop of 5K, which she will use for a tempo session (maybe 2 laps), whilst the ahem, more mature athletes, will do what we 're able - possibly some 1K repeats.    
                  rested yesterday after the 15.5 Wed, easy 4 this morn, typing this in a quick break from helping my friend clear her flat after the recent blaze . . . .  
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    We can target 3:15 Gerard I’d be very happy with that :)
    I’ve had 3 swims this week the longest today of 1 hour. I’m still rubbish but getting stronger. Saving the legs for GNR
  • Had a superb day in London yesterday. Bought the birthday girl some fancy jewellery and had lunch at the OXO Tower, it was superb.
    Celebrations continue tonight and over the weekend, so with being off today I bagged 20 miler.

    Started out OK but the legs felt quite heavy from halfway. Averaged 8.03 but it was hard work at times, especially on the uneven canal and river tow paths. While running I worked out that I've run 105 miles in the past 14 days. That's a lot for me, but I guess it's good to train on tired legs as long as you're sensible.

    Feels good to have the weekend long run done too.
    Right, more Prosecco!
  • KR – Welcome back pal!

    GM – Excellent 5k running. Enjoy the Guinness!

    Stevie – Nice 8 miles with low HR. Good luck in your 10k!

    Gul – Good 12 miles and a recovery run banked. I’d take any HR reading with a pinch of salt. I’ve found my wrist readings are all over the place at times too.

    DT – A good comfortable 20 miler done. Good luck in your HM.

    Birch – A good 15 miles done and easy running. Enjoy the family and vogit running!

    OO – Nice swimming and leg protecting. You’ll run a blinder at GNR.

    GD – Glad to read you had a great time in London. That’s a nice 20 miler at the end of a high mileage fortnight. Enjoy the celebrations!


    I ran the Killyleagh HM tonight and had a decent run. It was a bumpy course and I was running alone from a few miles in. Conditions were perfect and I was happy to get finished just as it was starting to get dark. I finished in about 1:21:20, which is 6:12 m/m pace. That’s almost 1:30 slower than my PB but that was done on a flat course. It was only 7 weeks ago I ran 1:25:30 in a slightly easier course, so still a good improvement.

    It does show that I’m definitely not in sub 2:45 shape for Berlin as a few have hinted at. The fetch calculator equates that to a 2:49:34 marathon. So I think a PB of 2:47:xx will be a great achievement, especially considering the forecast is for temperatures in the low 20’s. That's all the hard work now done with only some MP and strides planned over the next 8 days.

  • I ran another 9 miles this morning including an MP paced Parkrun in 19:20. It was tough enough to maintain that pace after last night’s HM. I then did my final lower body weight session before Berlin. It’s nice to get that out of the way niggle free. Now it’s time to wrap myself in cotton wool.  o:)

    I’ve just counted back and today was my 41st day in a row running! That is if I don’t include two 2k junior Parkruns with my daughter at 12-13 m/m pace. If I do include those two runs its 73 consecutive days running! Tomorrow will be a well-deserved rest day. An upper body weight session only and maybe a junior Parkrun, which I always let my daughter decide upon. 

  • Badbark - Fantastic time on a bumpy course! I'm sure whatever you do in Berlin will be incredible! Make sure the cotton wool is well wrapped ?
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    That’s a that’s a great time Badbark doubt I can go that quick.
    Paced Mrs OO to a parkrun Pb this morning, now just resting up for GNR.
  • Good luck to you and the crew tomorrow OO. Sounds like it's going to a hotly contested race at the pointy end.

    Good luck to you too Stevie - think you'll be in for a quick one.

    Enjoy the rest day Badbark - good shout out on the latest MT episode, and even more impressive HM performance. I'm guessing that you've managed to bag more races than Yuki this year.

    KR - welcome back. Manchester Marathon would be very tempting as elder Lorenzito's studying up there at the moment, but I think I'm going to have to push the boat out and do Boston. Need to make a decision on it by Wednesday!

    G-Dawg - good bit of scheduling, managing to combine celebrations and a 20 miler. Which canal were you running on?

    You're getting some fast stuff done there GM - surely you should be feeling more positive about Jersey, or is there just a bit of sandbagging going on?! ;)

    How you feeling about GER Gul? Any particular target?

    After a rest on Monday, I managed to get runs in during the rest of the week including a 6 x 3mins intervals session on Tuesday and some strides on Thursday. Mixture today as I ran 12.5 miles on hilly trails, timing things to arrive at the start of the Mole Valley parkrun around 8.55am, and then worked my way through the field after a slow start (chatting to someone who I used to work with and who turns out to be married to a guy who often gets the same train as me - small world!) for just under 22mins on a rather hilly course. Probably left it a bit too long while chatting after the parkrun as I'd cooled down quite a bit before running the 5 miles or so home so it was rather ploddy for the last stretch but I'll settle for 20 off-road trail miles in total with a decent paced stretch in the middle on tired legs.

    Gentle recovery run tomorrow should take me up to 50 for the week.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    GDawg - good 20 slotted in amongst the revelry  . .

    Badbark - nice work in the half + this morn - looking good now;  as you say , the work's done . . . .    
    Lorenzo - splendid morning's work  . .   Boston calls  . . .    
    accidentally did 14 with chums and daughter this morning, so 5 tomorrow will give me an unprecedented (in recent times) of a 50 mile week !!  
  • Badbark - great half and nice parkrun. Hope the heat doesn't spoil next week in Berlin.
    Lorenzo - good parkrun and off-road running.
    Birch - great tally for the week.
    Very late night on Friday, so decided to have a rest yesterday and got up early this morning to join in the local 24 hour parkrun. 23 laps plus there and back made a total of 24 miles @ 8:22/m. So nice time on feet run.
    Good luck to OO and DT today and anyone else racing.
  • Thanks for all the good luck messages!

    37.44 for 12th place this morning, over the moon with that!
    I know the course well so knew there were two hills in the first half. There was a fairly strong headwind as well, controlled the effort well and didn't panic when a 6.15 2nd mile came up. Came through 5k in 19.01.

    Next 3k were on the greenway with a slightly lose surface which I find difficult. Settled into a good rythym with a small group of 4. Pushed on at 7k to drop the group and work towards a couple of runners in the distance.

    Passed 3 people in the next 2k as I got near the finish, a few tight twists and turns in the final 800m. Got passed in the final 200m by a runner so I through everything at it to try and catch him and make sure no one else got past! The quirks of chip timing mean I was actually placed ahead of him. 

    Really happy with how I paced that with a negative split and my highest ever race finish!
  • Great running Stevie, well done.

    GNR looked good today. Hope threadsters did well.

    Legs were tired after Friday's 20 so did a 4 mile recovery yesterday at easy pace. Today I ventured out for a 5 miler to hit a rare 50 mile week.
    Wanted something sub-7 pace so set out with a 6.53.

    That seemed to shake the legs out and things felt smooth. Final split was 6.18 and averaged 6.38 for the trip. I needed that little confidence booster as I felt down on my pace ability recently. If I can do that at the end of a big mileage week, it bodes well for the end of a full taper.
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    1:23:06 today. I was hoping for better but hot and windy conditions so not too displeased. Legs feel fine post race
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