HADD training plan



  • I've always got by on 5.5-6 hours a night, any less than that and I stuggle, I don't think running has changed that. The one effect running has had on metabolism is that I'm a lot more "regular" these days, sorry if thats too much information though!!!image

  • Gaz, Well done on the cracking run and smashing the pb to bits!

    mace, Nice report and good controlled race.

    VT, I'm always tired! Especially when training hard. I find myself going to bed earlier and earlier. I was in bed at 9:30 last night, and sometimes in bed at 9. Up at 5am this morning to go to the gym. We've just bought a new suite, and my chair is an electric recliner. Great for a little snooz now and again. 10mins kip really does help!


  • macemace ✭✭✭

    Thanks folks

    Brian - i forgot to mention, i also tried to concentrate on abs and glutes based on your previous comments and i think that helped. I've been working on cadence a bit as well as i've noticed i lose concentration in patches and it drops considerably.

    The bummer is i've just reviewed my garmin stats and what i thought was a new max of 183 was right at the start so no doubt a spike ... the highest i actually hit was 170 (94%).

    Time    HRav   %       HRmax

    7:00    154       85      183 (?)

    6:57    158       87      161

    7:16    159       88       165

    6:58    161       89       166

    7:03    161       89       169

    7:19    163       90       166

    7:15    164       91       167

    6:59    164       91       167

    7:16    165       91       167

    7:10    165       91       170

    73:13   161      90       170


    Does 90% HRav seem high, so maybe my max really is higher than 181 ?


  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    Been away for the wkend. Almost rolled over and had extra sleep but (luckily) my middle kid vommited all over his bed at 5.30am which was just the alarm call I needed.

    I always thought you were in the states Mace. But we are probably in the same county! Unfortunately I didn't run the Thanet 10m as away, but I have for the past few years. If you averaged mid 160s for 10m I reckon your max would be about 185bpm. 

    Off to read back a couple of pages to catch up with the rest of the wkends action...

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    image @ luckily vommiting over the bed

    I believe VTRunner is in the States, Keir.

    I'm from Ramsgate ....

  • Oh my lord I dont know how you lot manage on that ammount of sleep. I'm getting about 12hrs+ a day these days.
  • mace, been thinking about your 10miler. If it was a controlled effort then 161 average would be ok for a 181 max. I think that 90% is ok for a race infact I think you could average 90%+ in a 10M or shorter. My HM in Oct was an all-out effort, and I averaged 168 (my HRmax is 184 I think). My max in the HM was 178.

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    Brian - blimey,  looks like i'm gonna have to try harder  image 

    Not sure i can go much harder than this though .....




  • Ouch mace! Looks you are riding the hurt train pretty hard image

    Fab running guys - especially Gaz and mace with their respective races.

    Andy & VT runner putting in good long ones.

    andy the deestrider. wrote (see)
    Oh my lord I dont know how you lot manage on that ammount of sleep. I'm getting about 12hrs+ a day these days.

    12 hours image. I wish. If I get 7 I'm lucky. It's mostly 5-6 as I tend to run in the mornings so I get up at 4am. Trying to be in bed by 9 but that doesn't always work to plan, especially when I'm working late.

    Interesting stuff about hearts as well. This has almost turned into a cardiologist's thread image. I remember a funny situation when we were health checked at work and the nurse took my heart rate. It was 48. She thought I was about to pass out when I assured her I was a long distance runner.

    I managed a 6 mile run yesterday after Saturday ended up being a total write off. Xmas party on Friday ... got home at half past six in the morning image and really didn't feel like running all day. My knee hurt badly too - danced my socks off during the night. Lots of RICE meant I felt fine again on Sunday. Run with no ill effects. Yay! Wanted to do another one this morning but yesterday's rain had frozen over and I didn't want to risk another fall. OK, I wimped out because it was freeeeeezing!

  • Yep, I think I'm the only one from the states. VT is the abbrevation for Vermont. Great place to live, but consider that i moved here from San Diego, the runners paradise image. Not to worry though, love it out here.

    Chick (Santa baby no less) I got a kick out of your comment below. I recently had a kidney stone. In the ER, I was bent over on the floor as they took my HR and blood pressure. The guys says "sir, your heart rate is 46, do you feel faint"?. My wife, who isn't a huge fan of all my miles, says, "don't worry about him, he's just addicted to running". image Meanwhile, I'm certain the left side of my abdomen will explode or implode or something...

    Also, glad to hear the knee is better!

    Santa Baby chickadeee wrote (see)

    Interesting stuff about hearts as well. This has almost turned into a cardiologist's thread image. I remember a funny situation when we were health checked at work and the nurse took my heart rate. It was 48. She thought I was about to pass out when I assured her I was a long distance runner.

  • gotta embrace the Christmas spirit, hence the name change image. It's a seasonal thing ...

    VT: kidney stones ... ouch!

  • So we range from 5 hrs sleep to 12 hrs.  ( ATD - are you a student ? ) . I need a good solid 7-8 hours. I can and do have less - but then need a catch up the next evening !! Mace - I like the photo. Well done on the race - thats a terrific result !!! Chick - I like the festive nickname. VT - its nice to be loved hey
  • Santa baby- why not have a seasonal name image good on ya.

    AGF- no not a student. Was once but once I passes the course said never again. I'm not an academic person really. To tell the truth I'm running full time at the moment. Last 3 weeks miles (101, 102 & 108) couldn't of been done with out the available time to recover properly between sessions. Although I did work for the money to support myself for this. Couldn't face being a blatant sponger on society.
  • Good for you ATD. Game on. If you give it a go full time then you will never have regrets later. Good luck with the training. I know what you mean about rest. When I peak ( lot less than you) I need a few naps when I can squeeze them in image
  • AGF-thats exactly the sort of attitude I like about runners. We all want each other to do well image its an interesting one though because. Although I have been fortunate enough to be able to self fund full time training. I'm not sure I agree with the idea of funding, professionalism or high prize money. because it surely stops it being a level playing feild then. I know the likes of Ron hill, charlie spedding, Steve Jones (uk marathon record holder) all worked full time. No lottery funding there.

    Had a good track session tonight.

    4x8mins so basically 4x1.5miles at 5:30min/mile pace. Very happy with that as the heart rate settled at 170 (85%max).

    Does Hadd really believe 85% is marathon HR. If so flippin eck.
  • Andy, I noticed that in the document as well. No chance of me running 26 miles at 85% any time soon! I think 80% is doable for me though if I keep working at it.

  • Xmas spirit - bah humbug!

    HRresting - I have seen 39 once, regularly see 41/42 when mara training. It does make for strange reactions from nurses/doctors though! Currently on about 46 which is not great for me. But only 2 weeks into my training.

    You guys will be surprised at what you can average for a marathon - 87/88% is not unusual. The thing with pure Hadd is that it doesn't promote leg speed and therefore the faster paces do feel hard.

    AtD, Didn't realise you were at it full time, best of luck with it. That is genuinely scary if you can do 8mins at 5:30 pace maxing at 85%. The HR does take time to rise but I would still estimate that your current MP will be sub-6 pace. You're making big strides (get it?) but remember to have a cut-back every 4th week or so. Presumably you are you doing the S&C, stretching and massage bit too?



  • Feel a bit sorry for the runners doing the Bradford City Run on Sunday. A marshall near the end of the run sent the runners the wrong way, so the 10k was cut short by 1k and the 5k by 500m.

    Made for some fast times though! I think the winner of the 10k beat the World Record!!!!!

  • 10m at weekend

    One or two 'weird' split times - was in Hyde Park and it was very busy so difficult to keep a steady pace - dodging people and dogs all the time. Usually running at home in the quiet lanes of Herefordshire!!

    Distance    Split time    Avg. HR
    1.00    9:58.79        143 (78%)
    2.00    10:32.84    140 (76%)
    3.00    10:35.13    139 (76%)
    4.00    11:04.12    141 (77%)
    5.00    10:29.73    138 (75%)
    6.00    11:10.81    140 (77%)
    7.00    10:42.55    138 (76%)
    8.00    10:56.00    136 (75%)
    9.00    10:47.83    139 (76%)
    10.00    11:06.19    139 (76%)

    Went off a bit fast for me. Overall average was 10:46 140bpm (76%) which is about 20secs faster than my normal pace. Have just bought Garmin 310XT and only the second time I used it - seems more sensitive to HR than my older recording device. Feel more anxious using it at moment so probably HR a little raised and my enthusiasm getting the better of me.

    However, felt really good throughout.

    Definition of a HADDER: Legs of steel, arms of jelly, quads like nails and a very small bellyimage

  • Mace - great report on your run.

  • Hi Guys,

    I've been experimenting a little over the last week to try and find an optimal pace to train at, I've done two solo runs since I last wrote, both over the hour. 

    Friday    1:03:xx 5.12 miles avg Pace 12:26 avg HR 139 (74%)

    Monday  1:06:xx 6.01miles avg Pace 11:00 avg HR 142 (76%)

    The paces and HR of yesterday's run were 11:15(127), 11:17(137), 11:00(143), 10:39(147), 10:38(149), 10:47(148)

    I read further back that you could run @ 5k+ 3mins and running @12mm+ is more than 4 mins slower than my 5k time, I think I'm going to run my solo Hadd runs @  around 11:30mm pace which should if I can keep off inclines be around 75% of Max HR.

    Planned paces for next six weeks

    Mon. 1hr     @ 11:30

    Tues. Group run with JS

    Wed. 1:30hr @ 11:30

    Thur. Group run with JS

    Fri. 1hr @ 11:30

    Sun 2hr @ 11:30


  • StewartC - those numbers are pretty close to what I was doing 13 weeks ago when I started. 11:30 pace - now I'm at 11:00 - to 11:05 after doing ALL my training at less than 75%. My 5K pace was 8:50 so if I added 3 mins it would have been 11:50. That pace turned out to be too slow as my 72 - 75% runs were easily within that.

    It is definitely working - 10m run this weekend at 76% came in at 10:46 pace. All my training to date has been trying to keep lower than 75% and initially was 11:30. Quite recently that improved to 11:05 - 11:15 so with patience it really does work. Also I don't do a really high mileage so it has (is) taken me longer. Currently on 28-30 miles a week so improvements now coming a little quicker.

  • To be honest I'm not sure if I have the confidence to attempt a marathon at the moment, but I do have a half that I've entered on Jan 20th (four villages half) so will be wearing the hr monitor to see what the figures comeout like hr wise. Current pb pace is 5:53min/miles, 1:16:50 but that was in September well before the Hadd method came along. So if 85%gives 5:30 pace then hopefully the half marathon is a slightly soft pb.

    GazOC after doing 60mins at 80% last wednesday I might go for 65 or 70mins tomorrow and hope the pace is better than than last week with less drift ideally.

    Brian ye been saving for an age to be able to afford this so feel justified in going for it qiute frankly. Would be better doing some strength/conditioning work but genuinely dont know how to fit it in without burning both ends of the candle.
  • BD2000,

    That's encouraging, Apart from the group running all my running will be at that pace hopefully I'll see similar improvements image

  • nice definition of a Hadder, BD image

    Andy: image. OK, so I will never get as fast as you, proper athlete that you are image

    Brian: 87/88% is my HM HR ... How on earth am I supposed to run twice as far? Or to put it differently: what's the proper HR for a half?

  • Just had a bit of a read on hadd again and found this brian. I thought my 85% pace was scary but if I'd of tried to keep it going for 10mins or so I probably would of had some drift, in theory this is what what I'm aiming for I think:- You are trying to reach a state where your predicted/expected marathon pace and your 170 HR pretty much coincide in the 2400m test. And that this pace per mile can be maintained in training for 10-15 miles at 170-175 HR without rising effort or rising HR
  • Yes I managed to do 8 miles with no pain!

  • Nice one Spen. Progress. image
  • So today my one of workers comes into my office and says "you made the cover of the paper". Sure enough, somehow I was randomly photographed while running and got my 2 seconds of fame at work.

    They should have written, guy "hadding" instead of "running"image


  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    Hooray! Spen's back! Good to see you running again Spen. It's been a while. Well done on keping the faith.

    Nice bum shot VT image

    After 3rd night in a row of cleaning up shit and sick all night from my 9mth and 3yr old (6yr old sleeps like a log) I felt knackered this morning, so skipped the early planned 90min run and squeezed in a 60min after work instead. Not feeling too well myself now though, so will try to get to bed for 9.


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