BERLIN Marathon 2012

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  • Nice one Ally. I had my numbers picked up for me no problems last year. As long as you take a long the PDF registration form they email out a few weeks before, it's fine. No other ID needed.

    Nice 70km bike ride.

  • Wow, its been busy on here!  Forgot to check in for a few days and so much has been going on.

    Johnas - Yes, I will be doing Maidenhead half marathon.  I have a 15 mile run to do so I will run there from my house.  Just going to run it as a steady run, no racing.  I would have loved to invite you to run with me but even with me piggybacking you, you would be able to outrun my pace. image

    BB - Glad to hear you foot is much better.  The other thing that may help is yoga.  Really.  Give it a go. image

    I finally got my confirmation email from Berlin but it does not show what corral I am in.  Does anyone else's?

    I hope its not going to be hot in Berlin as it is at the moment in the UK.  Please give us good weather so I can wear running tights as shorts may give me chaffing.image 

     

  • Blockbuster - how do you fare with that calculator?  If I put in 3:59:41 (last year's marathon) it gives me 9:04-10:24 for LSR (I typically go at 9:09 average) and 8:09-8:26 for tempo runs (I'm usually about 7:58-8:10).  Putting in a target of 3:49:00 it gives 8:42-10:00 for LSR and 7:49-8:04 for tempo.  So within range for both.  How about you?  Are you really following the 3:45 pacer out?

    Johnas - possibly a combination of both.  I may need to push MP, I only have one previous marathon to go by and that was so hilly in the second half the splits became erratic.  I did have enough in the tank though to run the last couple of miles 16 and 31 seconds faster than MP.  May just have been sheer determination though as I knew how close I was getting to 4:00.

    30km on the bike and 30 min swim, wasn't feeling right today, left me exhausted.  On the plus side, each day brings less nerve pain.

  • Martin, I'm in Berlin from the Friday so happy to help out if things with Ally change. Just DM me on here.



    Leisha - ill be using it as a 15 mile training run too. Ive ran the last few halfs too quickly so will be using the flat profile of Maidenhead to practise MP properly. Coach has told me in no uncertain terms NOT to race it. I'll save the HM PB attempt for Amsterdam in October.



    Stefan & Jonah - looks like its game on chaps!



    TD - you planning on another LSR in the next couple of weeks or just sticking to the bike now?



    Strunner - I would say your last marathon time might not be truly reflective of what your capable of. The McMillan calculator is a good tool and it seems to me, 3.45 is more realistic for you, especially bearing in mind the second half profile of your last Mara. I'd use the McMillan splits for 3.45 for the remainder of your training. Are you getting ANY running in at all? Will you get the chance to try an MP run on a flat, grassy park or track, where impact and stress on the body is much less?
  • Dumb question - but if you are in pace group 3:30-3:45, which is the second starting wave, which time will the pacer in this group be running for? 

    3:30 or 3:45?

  • Strunner the Macmillan calculator is a useful tool for putting in your target time and seeing what pace you should be running your various training runs, like your intervals etc but as a time predictor for races not so sure. If i plug in my last half mara time it comes up with predicted mara of 3-47 and when i look at the paces for each type of run for that mara time then i am definitely in there towards the faster end of each pace range (eg my LSr pace is sub 9-15 per mile) but given the PF and missing a few long runs i will try and tag on to the 4 hour pacer group see how i feel at 21 miles then maybe push hard. if i am ok at 21 miles then i've got something in the tank.

    Leisha I need to deal with my preconceptions about yoga but if it will help with PF then i'll give it a go! Do you have to go to classes or as with so much in life is there a website?

     

  • Thank you Ally (and Johnas, for your back up offer), you have saved me a hell of a lot of hassle.  My flight gets into Berlin at 18:25, I would be happy to meet you at a place of your choosing on the Saturday night straight from the airport, even if I am invading a carbo loading restaurant meal! (as long as you are okay with that - I think I will sleep sounder knowing the number is already pinned to my top!).

    I'm not sure what the protocol is here as don't often contribute to threads, but my email address is /forum/smilies/confused_smiley.gifhaznmart@googlemail.com]shaznmart@googlemail.com, if you could email me and I can send my PDF reg form to you and sort out time/place for handover.

    Ally, good luck with trying to qualify for Comrades.  I am trying to break 3.00 for first time so you may see me sticking to the pace maker too!

  • Hi Guys,
    Anyone know if there's going to be an official Berlin Marathon Running App available?  Ran the NYC Marathon last year and they had a really good one, where friends and family could track where you were on the course during the race.
    Otherwise, can you track participants via the marathon website?

  • BB - Yes, it would be advisable to go to a class if possible.  Failing that, go get a good DVD.  Really helps with stretching out the calfs, hamstrings, ITB and of course, the foot.

    Johnas - Are you based near Maidenhead?

  • Johnas - yeah I'm going for a 5 mile steady run tonight as physio advised.  Can maybe do this one at MP.  Might try for 3:45 pace as you suggest and see how I get on.  I've got an exact one mile lap on grass right on my doorstep which is good.  Maybe come the day it could end up being like BB's original plan to cling onto the 3:45 pacer for dear life...  Thanks for all your advice!

    Blockbuster - fair enough.  I'll go out for my last LSR this coming Monday (I've missed the last 2 of them as well) and see how it goes.  May be able to make a decision about target pace after that.  Wouldn't have minded running with you if we were going for the same pace but not sure that we will be.  The laugh is going to be thinking about adjusting pace when there are only km markers.

    Disco - I think there is a 3:30 pacer and a 3:45 pacer.  Presumably they'll be clearly marked.

    Do you guys record individual splits on your watches in the race itself?  My watch only records 30 laps which is of course no use for a metric marathon.

  • Blockbuster wrote (see)

    TD the Marmite one?

    I am not such an egotist as to have MANY shirts with my name on BB, so yes, it'll probably be the marmite vest if it is warm.
    Leisa H wrote (see)

    I hope its not going to be hot in Berlin as it is at the moment in the UK.  Please give us good weather so I can wear running tights as shorts may give me chaffing.image 

     

    Leisa - have you checked out a product called BodyGlide? It basically makes your skin a bit more slippy and helps to avoid nasty chaffing. Other areas of the body can benefit from a hefty dose of vaseline. Let's put it like this, I'd never want to visit a prison immediately after running a mara image

    Johnas - yes, fully intend to try and put down another 20miler this weekend. The weekend after I am going to do a 120 or 130km 'sportive' ride as well and will probably follow that up with a 25km run. And as much as possible, I'm trying to get hard bike rides in to supplement the stamina building. My hill climbing already seems to be getting fairly decent. I use www.strava.com which allows the possibility of comparing your performances on sections of roads/ trails, usually hills, against all other GPS sports watch wearers who use the same site. Am getting quite a few hills where I am ranking very well.

    strunner - my watch is set to count a lap automatically every km. I then use my speed per current lap as a way of having a more smoothed/ averaged out current pace.

  • TD - dude. Seriously. Prison? You're rivalling DLR these days - maybe you always did!



    Leisa - Vaseline is your friend. In a marathon.



    Last year I was opposite, on the s-bahn on the way home, a chap in a t-shirt with the Scotland flag on it, defaced by a fair bit of blood emanating from his nippular regions... I hope he now knows the benefit of Vaseline for this year...
  • Leisha - I grew up in Maidenhead but don't live there. Parents still do though as do most of my mates.

    Strunner - I wouldn't risk an MP run just yet mate. Go out and run at recovery pace (use McMillan for pace guide) and just trot round to get the legs running again. Keep to grass (for soft impact) and flat (for ease!).

    I record each individual split manually rather than rely on the garmin - garmin's are great but not that accurate. i know poeple that have left autolap on and then missed their target time by 20 seconds due to relying on the garmin.

    TD - good luck with it. Sounds like your fit Cardio wise and just need that knee of yours to hold up for the 3 hours. Would strapping or something like that hlp do you think?

  • TD - yes, I have the Bodyglide which is great! I still get chaffing on long runs on my inside upper thighs.  Obviously, only when wearing shorts.  I'm not overweight but it must be that I am carrying too much fat there.  I never see anyone else having a problem wearing shorts. 

    Iain - I always carry a little pot of vaseline with me. image

    Going to do my 20 miler this Friday.  10 miles at steady/easy pace then the next ten at marathon pace.  Going to have to do a 2 loop route which I think is going to be tougher than a single loop.

  • Leisa - great stuff, those little tubs. Also, stop being so hard on yourself. It's very common to have chafing there, (even in the thinnest people!)



    My Goodness. I can't wait for the GNR. My next run.



    TD - btw, 3hr30m after the year you've had will be ultimate cause for celebration. I hope I get to congratulate you at the end. I'm looking for a PB but will be well over 4hrs I fear. Are you going to be able to stay in Berlin for a beer Sunday night?
  • I always vas up if going over aobut 8 mile, most do. maybe men are different but you always see men slapping it all over without any care who's watching, maybe women prefer a bit of privacy, anyway it's better than chaffing.

  •  

    Strunner - I reckon I will find the nice 4 hour pace group and tuck in, maybe find a fellow Brit in there and try and focus less on the pain/pace, let someone else worry about pacing for a change! Let us know how your next long run goes

     

  • Crikey, I've just seen that Lufthansa are striking tomorrow at Frankfurt, Munich and Berlin, cancelling lots of flights in the process.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19497890 

    Conventional wisdom has it that it is common for their neighbours to the West, but I don't think I've heard much about German strikes before.  I hope they resolve everything satisfactorily during this month.

  • Iain - know how you feel about the GNR - can't wait - just thinking back to my first GNR three years ago and how it was such a challenge then - now its a training run! Still struggling a little with the Runners Knee, pains all over the kneecap, top of calf, etc. 

  • Local club 5k last night, 10 seconds down on my pb in perfect conditions. image Maybe sunnday's race has taken more out of me than I thought or the cramming the running in since holiday is starting to take its toll.

    Rest day today or general run of 6-8 miles? What would you do?

  • K_W have an ice cream and enjoy the sun!

  • depends show you feel KW but IMHO, if tired/heavy legs, rest or run 6 miles at recovery pace (personally, I'd do the recovery run and use session to concentrate on running form). If you feel quite spritely, 8 miles easy. Whichever you decide (inc rest day) factor in a really good stretching session.

    Blockbuster wrote (see)

    K_W have an ice cream and enjoy the sun!

    hahaha... you and bloody ice cream!

     

  • Johnas - no need for strapping or anything like that on my leg. Surgeon says i just have to ge used to a new kind of normal feeling in that knee when running. My concern is simply to not create any further damage to the meniscus, by avoiding runs which are too hard, too often, or with too little protective muscle around the joint.

    The trouble for me is that what feels normal and painless in my right knee, is no matched with my left knee where i can always feel a greater sense of impact and less protection. Maybe one day I will not notice it any more but for now it still feels a bit weird.

    Leisa - I'm a skinny bloke and there are times when I can get chaffing on my inner thigh, particularly if it is a very hot and sweaty day - the skin is more likely to become irritated. Also, it is quite common for women in particular, to run with a slight inner rotation on the knee. You see this best when their leg swings backwards, the foot flips out to the side (I call it "duck feet"). This could contribute towards worse upper leg alignment too....? It is a gait problem which can be fixed. Ref. Pete Egoscue's book, Pain Free.

    Iain - no more mention of prisons then. Or vaseline. image

    18 people today in our work's running club race - just a 2.5km job with a few hills on the course. Came 2nd in 9m06s. I only ran my first sub 4min km 3 weeks ago, so I shouldn't be thinking how slow that is, but how fast. Avg HR was 93%, peaked at 96% so i put in a good effort. Knee feels fine but my Quads are asking questions right now image

  • TD - Good effort on the club run and great to hear the knee's not playing up after it! Interesting that they're not recommending strapping - I thought that might give you the extra support you need for the marathon attempt. Surgeons know best though!

    Leisa - I can vouch for skinng blokes getting chaffing. hot sweaty days are NOT my friend. I've been considering getting some of those lycra shorts to wear under my shorts but I just cant bring myself to do it! Good luck on the 20 miler today!

    Ally - not good news. Here's hoping it gets sorted before the big day.

    So, finally it's arrived! This Sunday will be my longest LSR before the taper downwards to race day. I'll be doing 3 hours/24 miles with the last 60 mins at MP. Should give me a good idea if I can hold my target MP with tired legs.

    What's everyone elses plan?

  • Leisa - echo the skinny blokes can get chafing sentiment!  It could be the lining of your shorts tho' as I find that sometimes its that rather than thighs rubbing together.

    Johnas - going for a ;10 mile steady run tomorrow (on or around MP) with a 16/17 mile LSR on Sunday.  I'll do 10 and 10 next weekend and 8 and 8 the following weekend ahead of race week.  My plan doesn't really taper so 55'ish miles this week, 48'ish next week, 47'ish the following week and then race week (including marathon) is 52.20 miles

  • Johnas - I'm almost at the taper... 80+ miles this week, with a slow one Sunday (3 hours time on feet); then 70 miles next week with some speed work and a fair bit of MP, 50 miles the week after and about 25 miles for the 6 days pre-race.

    Good luck for Sunday's run -- 60 minutes at MP after two hours slow is a really very very tough workout. What I find hard in those is suddenly switching pace mid-run. When I start slow I tend to stay there!!! I'm not even sure I could do such a run right now, and even if I managed I think I'd be pretty wrecked for several days!! I might do 60 minutes @ MP next week, but just after a short warm-up.

  • bit worried about this Lufthansa strike as well - booked through them but have a BMI flight (booked before they moved to BA) so hopefully should not be affected should they choose that weekend to strike. Thought Germans never strike!!

    Good solid 10miles last night at just over 6m mile pace - much faster than target 7min miles - and held it really well, when i finished i felt great and not really out of breath so maybe there is more in the tank. Think i will have a blast at the GNR to see if i can hold that kind of pace for 13 miles. Still had a below par few weeks on total mileage with the bad knee but hoping to do a twenty mile LSR after a day in the Olympic park on saturday image

  • Baljc - not sure i could go into a marathon without a taper but saying that, not really sure what my last 2 weeks look like as my coach only sends me my plans fortnightly. What i do know is that i benefit massively from a taper - gives me a real bounce in my step come race day.

    StefanS - impressive mileage. Don't think ive got over 65 miles in training. I did an MP run last night - 45 mins at 7mm followed by 30 mins @ 6.25mm. I quite like the stepping up of pace mid run but am dreading Sunday. Needs must though and it'll give me a good idea as to finding true MP pace for race day. Still undecided on exact time target.

    AndyC - 10 miles @ 6mm is some pace! Be careful though at GNR - i dont want to p1ss on any fires but I'm running a flat, fast Half that day too and asked my coach for some advice on whether to go out and chase a PB for a confidence boost or run sensibly. Here's his advice:

    "I coached a girl about 10 years ago who was training for Berlin. She ran the Glasgow half 2 weeks before at marathon pace and finished 2nd (she was pretty good). The girl who won was 2 minutes ahead on the day and she knew she could have beaten her but let her go sensibly.
    Both girls ran Berlin 2 weeks later and the girl I coached ran 2.38 to finish 3rd and also qualify for the Commonwealth Games. The other girl ran 2.50 and felt tired........"

  • Wow been busy on here this week.

    Strunner: Agree with what everyone has already said about pace. Most advocate doing LSR 1min slower per mile than MP. Some training plans have fartlegs and sprints in them that gives you the ability to run faster on the day. So in my opinion it depends on whether you do them as well in your training plan. I agree with what others have allready said that for slower runners it doesn't make too much difference. The key is don't kill yourself in training. Gauge how you fell after a long run, could you have maintained a faster pace or not over the same disctance and do you feel like you could keep going for another 6 miles? If yes your MP might be a bit faster, if No, your MP should be slower. I think we all agree the race starts at 20 miles for us running around the 4 hour mark so going out to fast will kill any chance of a PB. (In my opinion)

    Ally: Glad to hear you got your comrades entry in. I used the non Mr Price entry. I have checked my credit card and the payment has gone through. Still have no email confirmation though? Not worried as I have paid. Having lived in SA for a number of years, it doesn't surprise me things did not go according to plan!

    ADG: Last time I ran Berlin the ladies were not shy in applying Vaseline. I think I was more embarrassed than they were. We take part in a demanding sport so I say do whatever you have to to make your run as comfortable as possible.

    Have a good weekend everyone. I am off to see Lady Gaga on Saturday night so not sure what king of LSR I will manage on Sunday morning. Probably do the S but not sure about the L?

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