Speed Endurance for 10k?

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  • I got a new maxHR last week at the end of a 5mile race: up one point to 186.  Got a strange sense of satisfaction from it: like getting a pb.

    Anyway, 220-age = 180, so slightly out for me.

  • So,  yeah - after looking at a couple of things online, it seems unlikely that my heart was going 202 bpm, let alone 229 bpm!!

    I'm 31, so the 220-age,  brings me down to 189 and given that on the 1k reps it was sitting at about 181, I'll probably just go with 189 for now.  If I find the time to do the test of 3 x 3 minutes at max. effort I'll give it a go.

    Cheers image

  • Mine's 189 (measured at VO2 max test) but 220-age would give 181, so a fair bit out.

  • only 20% of people fit into the 220-age.

  • 220-age is pretty useless in my opinion. I'm supposedly 198 according to that in reality I've hit several 210-212's and even 213 on one occasion.



    Did the Stone 10k today in about 34:00. from gun to just past finish line my watxh said 34:17 but the organisers reckon I took 33:55 so not sure on time. Hurt like hell though as legs were properly sore and stiff from wednesdays short fell run. Idiotic idea that was on wednesday. Feel I ruined a good pb opportunity there. Amaetur. Feel free to hurl abuse image
  • Good time there Andy, well done, would love to do a time like that one day, whats ur next race?

  • Excuses excuses. 33:55 or 34:17 either way doesn't sound too shabby to me.  How far off the PB were you?

  • HRM related gripe...

    I went on a LSR (15.7 miles) on Sunday.  I've clearly been running my long runs a bit too quick.  To keep myself in the "aerobic zone", I was down at 10 minute miles going uphill.  Averaged out at 9:29 over the 15.7 miles.  I ran 15 miles at just under 8 minute miles about 5 weeks ago or so and it felt pretty comfortable.

    Anyway - the gripe - I've got a massive rubbed, red bit on my chest now where the plastic transmittor thing (this is the premium Garmin HRM - I'm sure others are familar) rubbed the **** out of my chest.  I didn't feel it when I was running but it was pretty sore afterwards.  I'm going to struggle to wear the HRM again this week now to be honest.

    What's the best way to avoid this?  Just put some vaseline on my chest before putting the HRM on?  That won't damage/interfere with anything will it?

    Related to the above posts on max HR etc - my recent race times (within the past month) give a 42:01 10k (average 6:46 per mile) and 1:37 HM (average 7:23 per mile).  Does 9:30 average seem about right for LSR?  Seems a bit slow to me, which makes me think that perhaps my max heart rate could be a bit higher than the 220-age (189) that I used to determine my zone for the weekend run.  But, maybe, I've just been running everything too fast and I need to teach myself to slow down a bit...

  • PB- is 33:26 from trafford 10k back in march so tough to get near it now. Sooner or later it'll happen. Got Birchwood 10k in August so hoping the weather allows a pb attempt.
  • Slightly off topic sorry but I feel for you Callum! I have 2 'cuts' in my chest from the 'Premium' HRM and was actually stopped by a walker on my 16 miler yesterday asking if I was ok - my dayglo yellow jacket was soaked in blood as one of the cuts had opened again. I fully understand then meaning of 'rubbing salt in the wound' now as sweating into open wounds is not pleasant at all. somebody suggested sudocream should help it clear up quickly and think it go worse as I loosened my strap when it rubbed and hindsight tells me tightening it may have been wiser.

  • Calum Crighton wrote (see)

    HRM related gripe...

    I went on a LSR (15.7 miles) on Sunday.  I've clearly been running my long runs a bit too quick.  To keep myself in the "aerobic zone", I was down at 10 minute miles going uphill.  Averaged out at 9:29 over the 15.7 miles.  I ran 15 miles at just under 8 minute miles about 5 weeks ago or so and it felt pretty comfortable. Related to the above posts on max HR etc - my recent race times (within the past month) give a 42:01 10k (average 6:46 per mile) and 1:37 HM (average 7:23 per mile).  Does 9:30 average seem about right for LSR?  Seems a bit slow to me, which makes me think that perhaps my max heart rate could be a bit higher than the 220-age (189) that I used to determine my zone for the weekend run.  But, maybe, I've just been running everything too fast and I need to teach myself to slow down a bit...

    Were you aiming for 70%?  that's a HADD thing isn't it?  I think general anaerobic zone it 70-80%.  I tend to run at around 8-:8:30 for that sort of distance on roads and my HR drifts from low 60s through 80% at around 10-212 miles, so I guess the las few miles are drifting into the anaerobic zone slightly.

  • Lou - I was aiming for between 70-80%.  The "aerobic" zone (according to whatever training article it was I read - I forget which one!) is 70-80% apparently.

    I've set 5 zones on my Garmin:

    Zone 5:  90-100% (I'd expect to hit that in intervals / race)

    Zone 4:  80-90% (I'd expect to be in there for tempo runs)

    Zone 3:  70-80% (aerobic zone - for long runs)

    Zone 2: 60-70% (recovery zone - for recovery runs)

    Zone 1: 50-60% (because there is a fifth zone - I don't think I'd ever use this!)

    I was closer to the 80% mark on my run at the weekend, which seems high for going so slow.  Perhaps my max. could be a bit higher than the 220 minus age??  I think it could be that I haven't trained slow enough on long runs before so I haven't trained my body's aerobic capacity properly until now - hopefully I'll be able to speed up a bit.

    I'm not training to heart rate in any of my other sessions - just monitoring heart rate out of interest more than anything.  I thought I'd give it a go on the longer runs, especially as I'm going to try to add some more distance over the next wee while.  15.7 is as far as I've ran since the Loch Ness Marathon last year - I want to build that up to doing 18-20 miles fairly regulalry but I don't want to ruin my other training sessions by doing them too hard because my focus remains 10k but will race some half marathons too.

  • Sounds like we have a similar approach, though I've tried doing tempo session by heart rate as I like to run off road it's a bit undulating round our way so difficult to maintain a consistant pace.

    I asked as the HADD programme recommends doing a load of base mileage at

  • Stupid forum keeps cutting of my posts - wasn't very interesting anyway.

  • Lou, guess you used the 'less than' symbol? using 'sub' instead of the symbol will workimage

     

  • Did the 6 mile race tonight, was feeling really good and fit but i paced it way out, did the first mile in 5:50 not sure how, just think i got stuck in the moment and was a bit excited. Good lesson to learn from that, wrecked my race, ended the 6 mile race in 44min in the end. One good thing out of tonight was i recon i could do a 5k in 6min per mile, as i was at the 2 mile mark in 12:10, and then 3 miles at 18:33, so with a bit better pacing should work and ive got 6 weeks to train also. the 4th mile was in 8:55 bit of a difference in splits there.

  • Hi, I 'm a lurker on these forums but just wanted to thank everyone for the advice offered. I managed to knock out a 39:37 10k today, Very happy after 4 weeks of dedicated training (several years of running once a week) I'm thinking I can go better! Thanks all!

  • Well done Richard!  I'm hoping to hit that sort of time early 2014.

    Ran the Olympic Anniversary Run today - 5 miles in 34:19.  First ever 5 mile race so it's a PB.  I was hoping for a bit quicker, but it was quite hot, very busy and a bit of a twisty/turny route.  All in all quite happy with it - the last few weeks I've been going fairly easy in training actually too.  It's been so hot and trying to train at lunchtime is tough (even up in Aberdeenshire it's been mid 20s - we're not used to it at all!!).

    Was absolutely awesome getting to run in the Olympic Stadium today though.  I was less than 2 minutes behind an absolute legend in Paula Radcliffe too - got to be chuffed with that! image

  • How's the training going for everyone else?

    Training has been a bit 'unstructured' lately with no real "A" races coming up.  I was meant to be in the middle of marathon training, but as I'm not running the Loch Ness Marathon this year, I've kind of just been doing whatever I feel like...

    Went out and ran 20 miles yesterday.  That's the first time I've ever managed 20 miles without stopping and only the second time I've successfully gone that distance in a training run.  Until yesterday, 17 miles was the furthest I'd gone without stopping and it showed - the last couple of miles (which admittedly were fairly steep uphill) I slowed down a lot!  It felt good though - pretty consistent 9 minute miles for about 4 miles, then down to about 8 minute miles for about 6 miles, then 9 minute miles again until I got to about 17.5 miles and started back up the hill to get home.  Totally dropped off to about 12 minute miles!

    Evidence that marathon this year wouldn't have been a good idea...  Think I'll leave it for a few years!  Next race is a 17.5 miler in just under 3 weeks.  I did it last year off of next to no training in 2:39 - hoping to go at least quicker than 2:20 this year, maybe even down to 2:10ish...  We'll see... image

    Focus goes back to 10k after that.  Next race will be in March, where I'm hoping to go under 40 minutes for the first time!

  • Unfortunately I'm injured. So no proper running for about 5 weeks so far.
  • Good work Callum, Good luck with the recovery Lou.

    Training for me has been very good over the past month, probebally the best training month ive had for a few years, feeling very good and raring to go racing now image

    Got a 5k race in 2 weeks were im hoping to beat my road 5k pb of 19:07, im hoping to get under 19, if not a PB will do (I ran a 19:30 in training few weeks ago on a hilly course so should beat this time). Then another 5k in september to help me sharpen up for my sub 40min 10k attempt mid september, been trying for this now since 2007, ok not been training that hard in the past but think with the last 5 months training im pretty confident that ill go under it (if the weather allows of course)

    I will let you know how my 5k race goes in 2 weeks, keep up the good work everybody image

  • Great to see that this thread (probably the finest on the site) is still very active.

    I've got two road 10Ks in the next two weeks. Neither are great PB opportunities due to hills, but I'm still shooting for my first sub 36 min 10K result. I did 36:10 on the flat in March, but seem to have improved since then.

    I did a 4 mile time trial on the flat a week or so ago in 22:38, so fingers crossed this should hold me in good stead.....

  • Did the 5k run today in 19:25, went off too fast again, first mile in 5:30, but its a good learning curve, overall happy with that.

    The first mile was fairly comfortable at that pace, but then when i got to around 1.5miles the lactate levels in my legs were just too much, what do i need to do to get that pace going for longer, as the first mile was very comfartable???

    Already doing 20min runs at lactate threshold, and a few mile reps with short recoverys. But one thing i can say 1 year ago if i ran a mile in 5:30 i would have to walk the rest so its working slowly image

  • That's a great first mile Cliff, though in a 5k its way to fast. Your last 1.5 miles must have been 7.xx mm? Classic lack of good pacing meltdown though. I bet if you went off 6 mm  you would not have crashed quite so bad. My first parkrun my 1st mile was about 5.55 and my 3rd about 6.35 and  came in at 19.34. My second one a few weeks ago my first mile was 6.10 and my third about 6.25 and came in at 19.23.. The pace you went off at was about 17min 5k pace so way above your current level.

    I think had you gone off at 6mm you probably would have posted close to sub 19 with an even pace.

  • Returning after a year off.

    i had to take a year off all phys up to May this year.  In order to set a target I elected to enter the Swindon Half marathon in mid October and follow the Garmin Connect (Full potential) HRM trianing planitem halfway through it and although I am clearly fitter my speed is awful. 

    i did a 1.5mile best effort test the other day that at full fitness I used to get 8.30 but I got 9.53. What was really odd is that when I first came back to fitness I did a nine miler in which I did the first 1.5 mile in 10mins. 

    I have realised I haven't been stretching off. Can this be the cause of the lack of pace improvement?

  • Hi all, did my 1st competitive 10k yesterday, the Mel Batty race in Thurrock. Aimed for sub 40 and came in at 39.43 so very pleased, however my mile splits always seem to rise in the middle of a race, but I still usually finish strong! Eg 5th mile yesterday was 6.36, 6th mile 6.15. Is this psycological or can I improve my mid race stamina with tempo runs?

  • Firstly, we'll done on hitting sub40 at the first attempt!

    As for pace dropping a bit in the middle it's probably a fairly common theme.  How fast was your first mile?  Heading out too fast is very common and a slower middle section being the result.  If you can come back with a 6:15 in mile 6 that's pretty good going.  Just out of interest do you track your pace as you run?  I.e. Were you aware that your pace had dropped off in mile 5 or did you just see that after you looked back at the stats?  I ask because I have noticed my pace drifting in the middle of races until I've looked at my watch and realised I'd slowed down!

    Anwyay - hitting sub40 first time out will surely mean that you can go much faster and with more race experience you'll work a lot of this out!!  I'm just a mere 42 minute man at present!!

    Back in the 10k hunt again now though.  Targeting a November 10k to get closer to 40 minutes to give myself the best chance of going sub40 in March.

    Just recovering from this beast at the weekend www.brgchallenge.co.uk at the moment!  I forgot how bad some of those hills are!!

  • First mile was 6.17 I believe... Always try and hold back to start but not easy! I do track my pace but don't try to greatly alter it during a race

  • Not good for me 42min 10k today, not sure what went wrong to be honest, need to be more consistant with my training i think e.g one week ill have a good 30-35 miles training the next im down very low 20s even 15s then back up 30s again, all to do with motivation, not good enough really, oh well bring on the next one.

  • Not been on here for ages.

    Back in the hunt for sub 40 minute 10k.

    Training hasn't been ideal at the start of the year due to a week off with food poisoning and another week off with being flat out busy at work.

    Got out for my 10 mile run on Sunday though - first one of the year.  Aiming for sub 40 minute 10k at the Garioch 10k in March.  If not there, then hopefully at the Fraserburgh 10k in June.

    Cliff - have you nailed the sub 40 yet?

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