P + D training for VLM 2013



  • Not wet myself yet. But I've left many a suprise for the local golf courses at night. Well I mean the grass is much softer so who can blame me?!

    Sadly I have wondered whether wetting yourself during the marathon would be acceptable instead of stopping. I mean you are going to throw loads of sport drink and water over yourself anyway, so who would notice?! Maybe I need to get out more!
  • AG A recent half time would give you a more accurate prediction, and as you say its a pb for you anyway..plus I have noticed have you missed few if any sessions so far..you will be fine as long as you don't go off too fast..something I a always telling my brother who is about your pace
    Heow I too race a half far too close to a marathon (DUBLIN) but it was 3 weeks not 4, image..I had the most awful run after 18 miles I did manage to get under 3.55 only just though I hated every step step, it really is all a learning curve, but the problem is once you have bombed in a marathon its bloody months at least till you can have another reasonable stab...unlike a half or 10k

    As for the toilet things..never wet myself , but I never get through a long run without having to find a toilet, tree or bush for the other,...so the Imodium always comes in handy on race day

    Heow..heres your fare !!

  • My second medium/long 11 mile this week, felt very good all run, averaged 7:40, actually got back home feeling fairly refreshed.

  • That's the 10 with 6 @ LT done. Pace for the 6 LT were -

    6:28..... 6:22...... 6:32...... 6:31..... 6:58..... 6:38

    It was a out and back route along a cycle path so mile 2 of the LT was slighly downhill and mile 5 was back up the same hill. It seemed much steeper on the way up it hence the 6:58. TBH I nearly chucked it at that point.

    I seem to have a bit of a pain in my right quads. image I'll skip tomorrow's recovery and hopefully I'll be ok for Sunday's long run.

    Sorry for interrupting the toilet stories.

    I've never shat myself but had a real scare in a coffee shop in Amsterdam.


  • Hi All

    Been away for a bit (work & all that) and have just been doing some back reading - great running everybody, ace stuff!

    Pleased to be able to report that I'm still sticking to the 55/70 schedule which means today I've just completed my 11M LT pace run - actually really pleased as I managed to control my effort much better than the last couple of attempts. Splits were; 7:08, 7:06, 6:49, 6:19, 6:13, 6:07, 6:09, 6:15, 6:08, 7:09, 7:19 - am now quietly optimistic that something close to 3 is potentially on (as long as I stick to the plan!)

    Was targeting 6:15 - 6:20 so it went pretty well - nice rest tomorrow (I did the 6M recovery run on Monday) and then a nice relaxing 20 on Sunday! 

    Keep it up everyone! (I train in Nike luners, glides for anything over 12M and flys for the shorter/faster efforts - have 2 pairs of each on the go so it's always a nightmare trying to work out which pair should be on my feet on any given day!!)  


  • I wasn't away that long was I? Three pages some fantastic long runs and a whole lot of bodily functions talked aboutimage

    Missed my swim this morning as I was up half the night with a bad stomach and only managed a progressive 6 mile run on the treadmill at work late this afternoon. HIll run tomorrow and 22 on Sunday looks like this will be in the rain image
  • six mile recovery turned into a 7 mile recovery as I went the wrong way into a sodding sodden field on the outskirts of Chester, brought all of my bodily waste home tooimage. The walls are 2m long for anyone who is interested.

    Nice running Craig, Ziggy and Dave (and anyone else I missed). 21 or 22 tomorrow for me, then the torture of France v Wales.image

  • Go CazGo Caz ✭✭✭
    Well, I was in the toilet queue at VLM when one lady runner just pulled down her shorts and did a wee right there in the queue. Anyone else done that?!

    NN I would not wear the Adizeros in the marathon again because I developed a painful knee last time, so I think I will go back to my tried and trusted Mizuno Waves. I wear the lighter ones for half maras and shorter races though.

    JF50. I have some Nike Lunareclipse 2's and they are great (and look very funky) too. They are the first Nikes I have tried.

    Chris: I know what you mean about the LT runs. This week I thought I couldn't possibly do 6 miles at LT pace, that I would just do 5, but guess what...
  • Did the 14 miler tonight as I did the tempo on Wednesday.  Did it at 7.16 pace.


    Oh and to keep the toilet theme going I have had to dash into the bushes a few times over the years.  On New Years day I had to have an emergency break in Burger King - not a pleasant experience as all the toilets were already blocked...

  • I've coined the term 'A Mcshit with lies' for any toilet related activities at Mcdonalds / related burger joints. I was caught short without money and popped in to use the facilities and when asked if I would be buying food to use said facilities, I replied of course I would right after my pit stop. Naturally I legged it out after I was done and its thereafter been lovingly referred to as 'A Mcshit with lies'. I reckon it could catch on.

    Good 14 that SR - Solid stuff. I went out with the wife and kept her company for 6 of the most leisurely miles I'll ever run. It was around 9min pace and felt like I was walking. The things you do for love hey?!

  • Just back from Parkrun 5K this morning. I thought I'd have a bash at a 5k to relieve the boredom of marathon training and see what kind of shape I am in. Came in at 18 mins exactly. Not too bad all things considering. Its a PB by 30 seconds so I can't complain, but I would have loved to have snuck just into the 17's (maybe the official time will be). I don't think the 6 mile tempo on Thursday helped, or turning up with only 5 mins to go (so no warm up at all) and I certainly felt a bit heavy towards the end, but overall its all encouraging. A nice few very slow cool down miles ready for tomorrows long run. P.s no toilet issued this morning.

  • Chris J77  What are your times at other distances, and what time are you targeting for the marathon, around 3 hours or just below???

  • 8 miles this mornin 4 miles up and 4 miles down my hill, cut back/recovery week for me and 73.78 miles, next 4 weeks are 80+ with a bit more tempo workimage

    Men hope the 20+ mile run today went ok conditions here are good for running

    GoCaz bet you did the 6miles at LTimage well done.

    SurryRunner well done on the 14 @7:16 pace yesterdayimage

    ChrisJ77 well done on the 5k PB it's funny but most of my PB's are after or during Marathon trainingimage

    8 miles this morning 4 up and 4 down my hill with 4 x 70m strides on the last .5m up hill. Total for the week 73.78miles for a cut back recovery week, now for 4 weeks of 80+ milesimage starting with 22 tomorrow.






  • Craig - my 10k time is a bit old - thats at 37.55 and HM is 1.22.35. So 5k now relates a bit better to my HM time after this morning. I've got a 10k in a month or so - hopefully I can address that too.

    I've not been running long - probably 18 month or so and certainly never thought I would be capable of doing a marathon so 3 hour remains the dream target. Still not sure if its achievable first time, but I'll give it a go and crash trying! ha. How about yourself Craig? What are you targetting and how have you done up until now?

    That's some impressive mileage NP (and on a cutback week). You are going to fly on race day. Its crazy getting P.B's during marathon training - imagine what it would be like with a taper! - I was cursing the lack of a taper in the last k today. There was a definite lack of a kick.

  • 20m LR this morning (which I missed last week) image. It was cold, with rain/sleet throughout the entire run. My hands took well over an hour before they felt warm, in spite of two pairs of running gloves. The wind was light (4mph), but I suspect I'm going to have a bit of a stiff neck. Compared to the heavy winds and ice, it was a pleasure to run in. Even the hill at 9m felt much more “pleasurable” without a gale-force headwind. The slower miles (4 and 7) were due to pit-stops.

    Target Pace Range: 10:48 to 9:54    Target Heart Rate Range: 141 to 160bpm






    140/142/141/144/146/147/153/158/158/158 bpm

    (Peak 166bpm; Average 142bpm)

    The total time taken was 3:22:45.

    My upcoming week is a “recovery” week. Since last week was something of an unscheduled recovery image, I'm considering changing one of the 8m GA runs (most likely the first run of the week) for 8m w/ 6m LT pace, or for a straight 8m MPR.

    Does anyone have any thoughts about whether this is a good idea, and which session would be preferable? 


    Chris J77

    Not been running long myself, around 2 years, but current times are;

    • 5K - 17:39
    • 5 Mile - 29:27
    • 10K - 37:01
    • Half - 1:22:01


    Never really had a proper crack at the marathon, I ran one for my second race ever, 3:44 on around 30 mpw, but I feel i'm have developed fairly well and think sub 3 hours is fairly realistic.

    No Pain

    Just a question on you getting PB's during marathon training? That interests me, as until I started marathon training, I did a lot of fast sessions, probably too many but my short times were coming down. My fear with marathon training is it is going to make me a slower runner as you train a a lot slower paces, but a lot of articles I have been reading recently are pointing to the direct opposite, that you become faster at various distances.

  • Well if you think of it like this Mo Farra was doing over 100 miles a week before the Olympics.

    My PB's

    5k 18:13

    10k 37:13

    Half marathon 1:20:20

    Marathon 2:58:18

    So I have endurance on my sideimage age is against me at 51 years young now. Think every one should do a min of 5x20 mile runs before a marathon better still make them 22.image
  • Sorry Ten missed you, that's a nice solid 20 mile run.
  • Good running Ten and NP.

    Chris - that's a solid 5k time, my pb is 18.16 but I think I'd be in the same ball park as you at the moment. I would imagine you'd be closer to 17.30 if you did it on fresh legs which is a good indication for sub 3, you've certainly got enough speed.

    I did my long run today, 22 miles in 2hrs 51. Started at about 8.30 pace and gradually built up to running about 7.20 pace. I felt quite good at the end and ran the last mile in 6.27!

    I've gotta work now till 11 tonight so it's going to be a long day!
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Here are mine:
    5k 18:36
    10k 38:37
    Half marathon 1:26:58
    Marathon 2:58:54

    Have been just concentrating on marathon really for last 18 months, going to try and get faster at shorter distances for rest of this year after this marathon.


    Ten - good run. Replacing that GA run with a LT run might be a good idea.

  • probably too late now but I'm another one with huge feet. Size 8.5 image I'm a big girl though at 5ft9. Still, I want Fiona's feet image

    Ten: good to have you back. If things go pearshaped in your life I'd put the running on the backburner for a bit. A missed week wouldn't do you any harm. I missed 2 weeks due to illness when I did my first P&D season in 2010 and still ran a 3:38 marathon (the aim at the beginning had been a GFA time of 3:45). Well done getting that 20 in. I would just continue with the schedule as if you'd completed the previous week as planned. You can probably do with a bit more recovery. Most people underestimate the importance of rest and recovery ... been there, done it, got no friggin't-shirt image

    cracking LT running Lit, Mennania, Al, ziggy craig, 15w and dave image

    And fab 20 milers from HeOw and NN imageimage

    Chris: nice parkrunning - a 30 sec PB over 5k is respectable!!

    14 easy offroad miles for me today. Had to rejig the week due to snow and ice image. NOT looking forward to 20 with [email protected] tomorrow image

  • Welcome back Ten and good 20-miler! Also, belatedly, I think I knew you were a bloke too... some excellent running by everyone else, too.

    I just did my 6 mile recovery a bit reluctantly after staying out late last night. Following advice from people on here, I also tried taking a gel for the first time (High5 berry flavour) 20 minutes before to check there were no... digestive system issues before trying them on a long run. But it was so unpalatable (cloyingly sweet, but in a strangely muted way) that it took me about 5 minutes to consume half the packet (in slow, reluctant sips) and I had to throw the rest away because I just couldn't face it. Which doesn't bode well for being able to take one while actually running. I might wait till next time I'm doing a short run and try one of the SiS ones instead.

  • Lit, why don't you just drink an energy drink instead?

    They give out lucozade sport in London, I'm sure a few bottles of that will get you round the race.
  • Mark, I agree lucozade's easier to swallow though not exactly pleasant-tasting, but I can't really handle caffeine when running fast (genuinely believed I was going to vomit on some children at the end of a half marathon once after having coffee with breakfast), so that's why I thought I'd try out some non-caffeinated gels. I've never run out of energy while running before, but never run more than 20 miles either, so wanted to explore my options. But if all the gels are equally hard to force down, I might end up just going for jelly babies; much yummier.

  • Did the six mile recovery today.  My times are -

    5k 18:32

    10k 38:15

    half 1:24:08

    Mara 3.11:35


    The mara time is out of line with the rest, possibly because of the storm and tapering too early.  And last year I was only doing c40 miles a week compared to the 60 - 70 that am currently doing.

  • Go CazGo Caz ✭✭✭
    Chris - I have always got PBs (at distances of 5k and up) either during or just after marathon training. I always assumed it's because the training improves your fitness to an extent that outweighs any tiredness/lack of a proper taper. I have yet to try it with this particular schedule but will be doing a half and perhaps a 10k as tune-up races.
  • Craig - Paula Radcliffe set her best ever 10k time during marathon training. 

    Literatin - I find the High5 ones quite liquidy.  The SIS ones seem to be nicer tasting though. 

    Ten, glad you got your 20 miler done, hope yer fanny didn't chaffe... image

  • Helen - First week over with exception to 15 marathon paced tomorrow, only early days but have to say I feel great, slwoing it down and feeling refreshed after the slower runs, could be onto something here.  Are you doing Wrexham Half next Sunday?

  • Craig, I knew from your training log on Strava that you put in a lot of hard sessions a week and thought you would see a huge benefit of doing some longer slower runs, just wait, in a few weeks, your tempo will feel so much easier and you will find you just float on the speed session - I banged out 4 weeks of the 55-70 and felt great, couldn't believe I was doing 50 odd mile weeks and feeling so good.  Unfortunately, being realistic, I knew it wasn't going to be possible to do 60-70 mile week with the kids so young so have made right decision to drop down but once my youngest is in school in September, I will do the 55-70 for next year's Spring marathon hopefully. 

    Some cracking PB's on here.  I need to do more update 10k/5k as they are a few months old now.  

    Chris - 30 secs on a HM is great PB - on a 5k it is pretty bloody impressive!  Well done.  


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