Are you and "in" or an "out"?

14445474950

Comments

  • 23082308 ✭✭✭
    Ynnec said:


    Odds on a 2nd referendum are shortening:



    A second referendum on what, though?

    The deal which has been negotiated is non-transparent and inadequate.

    It would be unfair on people for the politicians to deliberately settle for a bad deal and then say in a referendum do you want this bad deal or do you want to stay in?

    They should have got a better deal.

    If they put a bad deal to people in a second referendum and say it's this or remain, people will (rightly) be annoyed, asking why is it "this"? Why hasn't a better deal been pressed for and insisted upon? Why have the politicians cynically negotiated only a crappy deal and are then dumping the responsibility on the people to say yes or no to it?



    The politicians have got themselves into a mess by not making sure they were involved sooner in what was being agreed. They are now in a tight corner.  It will be interesting to see how they get out of it.


  • NessieNessie ✭✭✭
    Jesus wept.  Just when it seemed nothing could get more tortuous, they are now trying to decide if they will vote on whether or not to delay the vote.

    I despair.
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭
    civil war is the only option, surely?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Battle Royale with May Corbyn Cable Lucas Farage Johnson Gove and Rees Mogg. Last one standing gets to implement their (no) brexit. Much better than some tedious debate between a bunch of professional liars.
  • NessieNessie ✭✭✭
    As long as they are not skimpily dressed for the fight............. :s
  • 23082308 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018



  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Cackling Theresa May GIF
    Pyrrhic victory?
  • 23082308 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018

    "Have you heard the one about a remainer being put in charge of Brexit, and what she came up with?"


    "A Brexit that looks like a remain?"


    "No, silly. A remain that looks like a Brexit!"


    "Well, you know what they say. When you see light at the end of the tunnel, build yourself a tunnel extension."


    "My mission is to keep us in the EU and out of the EU at the same time."


    "Isn't that going to cause endless confusion?"


    "Not endless, darling. Those crooks in the European Court of so-called Justice have gifted me the right to pull the plug on the whole thing right up to the very last minute!"


    "Is that what's going to happen? Even though you said Brexit means Brexit?"


    "I haven't decided yet."




  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Cackling Theresa May GIF
    Pyrrhic victory?
    In hindsight, that gif could be an advert for Vagisan.
  • Sam.Sam. ✭✭✭
    I thought this thread was about tummy buttons.

    I was wrong.
  • 23082308 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018

    some navel-gazers for you

  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    "Eunuch" Powell reference?
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Y, you must be an utter failure. No one who's successful would be so proactive with such an output of negativity.
  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    It was a play on words you strange little man.
  • 23082308 ✭✭✭

    It looks like we're heading for a "no deal" Brexit.


    Suits me.

  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    Leadsom was on the box this morning & was pretty insistent that there'll be no 2nd referendum. Rudd seems to have other ideas:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46631581?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cvenzmgyg35t/andrea-leadsom&link_location=live-reporting-story
  • 23082308 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018


    Rummage around into the background of people who want a second referendum and you will generally find (what a coincidence) they're people who want to remain in the EU and voted REMAIN last time around and lost.

    In other words they themselves want a second bite at the cherry, and ignoring the will of the people as already expressed in the 2016 referendum is their (selfish dishonest) way of trying to achieve that if they can manipulate it. 

    They then wrap what THEY want in various arguments for another vote, "we didn't know what we were voting for the first time", etc.



    I am baffled what people who want to remain think we gain from being in the EU, compared to what it costs us. The roads are so congested in London you are stuck in traffic bumper to bumper all the time because the population is so high already, yet growing absurdly yearly; the cost of housing is crazy because demand exceeds supply; the NHS is overwhelmed, including lots of health tourism from the EU; children's education suffers due to pressure on schools and having 50 different languages spoken, with foreign kids holding back the home growns; we spend 14 billion pounds or more a year on this unnecessary overbearing bureaucratic organisation which isn't necessary and wasn't what the EEC was supposed to be about when we joined; - the arguments are OVERWHELMING to get the heck out of the EU and leave! Then we can control our own borders, instead of having the population grow at 250,000+ per year, year after year.


    Any downsides the UK has of not already having in place an agreement with EU countries when we leave will simply be MIRRORED by the downsides of 27 other countries not having in place an agreement with us! Whatever is a problem to us will also be a problem correspondingly to them - so no one is going to hinder the other party unduly, it isn't in their best interests to do so, they will be hindered in return. This fuss about the absence of an agreement is misplaced. Whatever difficulties arise will be a workaround on both sides of the Channel. They won't want to lose either our business or our goodwill, so their ability to turn the screws on us are limited - we would be able to turn the screws on them, likewise. I don't have to shop at Aldi, or buy a German car, if I don't want to.


    What I want to see at the end of March is for us to leave. No delay, no more messing about. We leave with or without an agreement, it's as simple as that. future relations can be sorted out after we leave, it doesn't have to be all sorted out before.  Once we leave we will see what the problems are, and can then look for appropriate solutions.



  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    Image result for funny brexit 2nd vote gif
  • 23082308 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018

    That isn't a fair way of looking at it. Article 50 says the parties will negotiate their future relationship if a State decides it will leave the EU. The EU has been willing to enter into trade relationships with other countries, and there's no reason why it shouldn't enter into one with the UK other than spiteful vindictiveness about our leaving their "club" and therefore not wanting to help us that way. Theresa May has gone off and done her own thing privately about agreeing something with people at the EU in a very non-transparent way and then presenting it as a fait accomplis, which intelligent people aren't happy about. The mess is caused by poor leadership, not by our wanting to leave but also wanting to stay in. We don't want to stay in, but we want a relationship with the EU of some sort if they want one with us. The point isn't that we are changing our minds but that the "deal" May negotiated isn't satisfactory.


    Once we are fully out we will probably be better placed to get a better agreement with the EU than Theresa May's one.



  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Only posting cost I reminisce over pixelated graphics.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-pick-your-own-brexit/
  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Does the threat of a long-term recession not bother you?

    2308 said:

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Ynnec said:
    It was a play on words you strange little man.

    When you aren't playing with yourself I assume.
  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    Badum tish! Weak, but here's a pat on the head for effort: 

    Benny Hill GIF - BennyHill GIFs
  • 23082308 ✭✭✭
    Ynnec said:
    Does the threat of a long-term recession not bother you?


    It would bother me, if I thought there would be one.




    We will still be selling goods and services to the 27 EU countries.

    They will still be selling goods and services to us.

    Therefore, no long term recession.







  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    It's not just about trade, there's signs that house prices could plunge, unemployment could double and inflation spike.
  • 23082308 ✭✭✭

    There's signs of anything you want to have signs for, or invent myths about.


    In a worst case scenario, 27 countries could boycott our goods, services, people, capital, totally, never buy a single thing from us, ever, ever again, and we'd be totally fucked.  So why don't you work with that as part of your Project Fear project? Yes, we could in theory hit the worst prolonged recession ever to hit humankind since the dinosaurs.

    If they did that we would boycott their stuff in turn, it would be a lose-lose, so they won't and we won't.




    The reality is that we will buy their stuff, they will buy our stuff, things will be fine, hunky-dory, tickety-boo, very little will change. But you will have to get the other side of March 29 to see it. So in the meantime spread doom and gloom all you want if it makes you happy to do that. If you don't have the figures to back it up you're just like the man in the pub.



  • 23082308 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018

  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    Well, Mr Sunshine, my original concerns were summarised in an FT article (which is now subscriber only content), so here's the next best thing:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-no-deal-latest-bank-of-england-warning-recession-financial-crisis-a8656561.html
  • 23082308 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018

    Yes, on a worst case scenario.

    I gave you one of those myself, just now.


    Worst case scenarios are easy to write and not useful. Tell us what is actually going to happen? Oh, you can't, can you, because you don't have a crystal ball, you don't have insight into how exactly it will pan out.


    What about a best case scenario. Nothing much changes. There. Why isn't that what you want to think? Answer, because you are part of Project Fear. Number One spokesperson. A remainer who thinks we should have a second resolution, because it's all going to be so awful otherwise.



    It's interesting to see who spreads the doom and gloom. Actually, people who want to cover their backs, or get extra funding. The Bank of England. The police.  If it happens, they said it, they told us. If it doesn't happen, it gets forgotten they said it. So they think they have to say it.





    Let's suppose hypothetically you're right, it's awful. We can apply to rejoin the EU. Simple. So what's the problem.



    You can't make an omelette unless you break a few eggs first. Unless you break the eggs you will never know what the omelette tastes like.




  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    2308 said:

    What about a best case scenario. Nothing much changes. 

    Keep tapping those heels, Dorothy.
Sign In or Register to comment.