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P&D Spring Marathon 2019
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Cold out there at the moment isn't it! I've actually been doing some running; logged 40 miles already this week and heading along to a session with the club tomorrow morning.
I've done a '2018 review' on the blog if anyone wants something to chew on during their lunch;
https://spragginsblog.wordpress.com/2019/01/04/2018-training-racing-summary/
Anyone else keen?
I am in theory doing the 55-70 mile 18 week P&D. I say in theory as the past 5 weeks have been a series of colds, man flu, coughing fits and hangovers with just a 30 mile a week average. I blame the hygiene levels in my office for all this.
Anyway, lots of ploddy stuff at the minute with some speedy intervals planned for next week
Enjoyed the blog, Joe. You had an incredible year, both in terms of the big performances, but also frequency of racing. If I’m honest, I’m not surprised energy and motivation took a dip. Only right for them to do so, and it means you’re now back on it even stronger.
Seeing your VLM photo brought back memories of the heat so soon after the filthy winter. Everyone is soaking wet from throwing water over themselves. Swimming trunks clearly a suitable choice.
Couple of good outings there post race SQ !! 20@7min milling is really quite a test. Wouldn’t worry about anything much after that. 17 with a substantial marathon effort portion in the same timeframe. Hmm ! I’m down for the Gloucester 20 as part of the London build up by the way.
RSR - That’s unfortunate to be both poorly and misdirected in the race like that. I know someone else higher up the field who was on for a good pb. I just realised I have no idea whether marshalls generally get paid or whether these organisations rely on volunteers ...
Well done on the tri finish Joe ! And the Christmas Day marathon so close to it. You’re made of iron (appropriately enough !).
Nice to see JCG and Ramjet back ! Good luck in your preparations.
Chicksta - Holy icy horse turds ! Well done on the threshold work and getting out in the bitter cold. Barcelona is a noisy place on NYE !
Good work too AWC on the threshold stuff. I find it difficult to do the splits too
Jooligan - 20m with 2000ft. Wow. I trust you had a good break
SQ - ive done chichester a few times, cant believe the old course was short as it was a bit race with big money prizes, it was quick though with the downhill last couple of km. The new course is potentially quick too, but last year it was very windy and the lap of the motor cct is very exposed. Well organised though with parking now on the grass round the cct.
Whilst im here...........i had a marathon comeback at Abo in october after a few compromised years, and scraped a very cramp affected 3.01 off a shortish build up. Which has motivated me towards Brighton 2019 as i can see a potential sub3 again despite being M50 AG. I have been reading P and D lately and have a question re the 20% and 10% paces re long and medium runs. Do folks adhere to these? I note SQ 20 at 7.0X which sees quick with a ~2.50 target ? Running too fast for too long too often is where lots of folks have ruined their marathons. 10% slower on a long run is fast and hard running for me.
SQ - I used to do Chi 10k every year, cant believe it was short being a masters qualifying race, but now its moved, its no where near as good and not sure I will do it this year round the motor circuit!
Good to have another one on board George. Same target as me - so will be following your moves!
AWC - yes brighton will be my A race. (Not sure I should admit but I'm an accountant as well. Hope no one thinks less of me : D)
Muddy funster - with a name like yours I thought you would love a bit of mud in a marathon. I don't like getting wet or dirty so not a good one for me!
I'm having a day off as since changing running shoes I have a pain on the inside of my foot. Ordered some new Asics Kayano. Hope that does the trick!
FBT - enjoyed the report, as others have said, sounds like a good time for the course and conditions.
Well done on the LT Chicksta and the -5 GA.
Welcome back Ram and JCG.
Hope the VO2 went well Hazel. I'm another La Sportiva convert. I've only recently bought some Mutants but they are the most comfy trail shoes I've ever worn (small sample mind).
Those run commutes look like good training AWC, well done on the annual mileage with everything else. Hope you are in good shape for the Country to Capital.
Muddy - excellent holiday 10k. I'm not sure which I'm more envious of, the venue or the time.
Jools - a 20 miler on Dartmoor sounds like sufficient punishment for the festive hedonism.
Spoons - sound like you made the best of the Glos 10, hope you are over the cold.
SQ - well done on the 7 sins (sounds like a weight watchers race). Speedy 20m too, good luck with the xc.
Joe - I enjoyed the annual review. You've packed a lot in (as many races as Jools ?), best of luck going forwards. Well done on the tri podium.
Welcome George, always difficult to stick to the plan over Xmas I find, good luck with knuckling down now.
TR - shooting for 3:00 in the past I doubt any of my LRs or MLRs have averaged much below 8mm.
My main goal over the festive period was to tick off the key sessions which I've just about managed so now nearing end of week 5. My highlight was a NYD mara parkrun double. 9m out, 3 at PR, 7m to next PR, 3 then 4 home. I was pleasantly unbattered by it which was nice. My LT sessions seem to be improving too. I'm probably running them a bit too quick but I might have troubled my 5k PB in todays 4m@LT and certainly beat my 5m (soft) PB in the previous 5@LT a week or two back. I've just got a MP session to schedule in this weekend then its a recovery week, well timed in advance of a 43miler next weekend then total devotion to the plan.
Hi George. Hope you conquer the infections.
Hi TR. I normally manage to hit the paces but don't get too hung up about it, especially the day after a race.
If MP is 6:50 then 20% is 8:10 and 10% is 7:30. I normally naturally hit about 8:00 at fairly easy effort and hitting 7:20 - 7:30 is normally OK in the second half. That suggests my MP should be 6:40 but I can't do that!
Just a recovery 5 for me today. Seem to have rediscovered the marathoners shuffle in fine style.
For the record I managed 50 parkruns, 3x5K, 2x10K, 1x8M, 4x10M, 3xHM, 1x20M, 4xMara, 3 Tris (inc Half-X & X), 5 XC, Man v Horse, Cotswold Way Relay, 2 night, 7 fell & 12 track races = 99!
I tried hitting the paces my 1st 2 times through P&D TR but haven’t worried about them at all the last 2 marathon campaigns with no discernible difference in marathon performance. Running easier resulted in lots of other PBs from parkrun to 20M. I’m pretty sure my race schedule takes care of the upper end adaptations.😂
See the wheels are still bolted firmly on Macca. Hopefully you get to cash in your awesome training times in a race soon. Podium finish in the Ultra😜
Top NY all round Muddy. Remember looking at the results from that race last year & thinking 😮
Welcome George. Hope the end of the festive season means you can get into a proper training routine. The dedication demonstrated here certainly helps with motivation at times.
See you at XC SQ. I’ll be plodding round towards the back for sure after another hilly MLR today.
Good luck today SQ and Jools. I think the trunks are here to stay re; VLM so let's hope it's not too cold in April!
Macca - as others have said, you're absolutely flying at the moment! Must be the best shape you've ever been in? Saw you logged another impressive 20 today. Get yourself to some races, sharpish! I'd have thought all your PB's are there for the taking.
Jools - 99 races! Surely you could've found just one more..
Back into proper sessions with a bang today. 3 x 5km with a 1km float, with the last 5km taking place at the same time as parkrun. Group of about 10 of us, but no one going at exactly my pace so ran the majority solo.
19:14, 18:58 and 18:33 for the 3 efforts. Tried to run it progressively from MP effort upwards. Was absolutely cooked by the end. Nice to be back working hard though.
Chicksta - i was mentor to a guy called sense 5 or 6 years ago, not sure now if the aim was 3.45 or 3.30 but he went sub 3.30 at Paris that year, so happy days. I just had to slow him down and run a bit more often, with the odd shortish BAC type session so he could run a bit quicker sometimes, which is what he liked.
Chicksta I'm free to race as often as I like these days since my marriage went South just over 3 years ago & my daughter is now grown-up. Exciting news re Hamburg parkrun.
Parkrun & XC double race day for me. First races I've been able to get my HR up to near optimum race rate for about a month. Consequently I enjoyed both. It was my 350th parkrun so I stayed at home in spite of my aversion to mud & cani-X. Fortunately the speedy dog-assisted fliers were elsewhere today so there were no early obstructions. Went out hard but about a dozen were ahead of me by the first corner however I stuck at it & reeled them in one by one til I was in 4th with 400m to go when one young lad came back past me followed almost immediately by another chap who'd been chasing me the whole way apparently. So 6th & sub-20 on a twisty, rooty, muddy, lumpy course.
XC in the afternoon was great fun. Saw SQ who had a cracking race, finishing some 3 minutes ahead of me. It was 3x 2M laps which each included 2 stream & 2 river crossings, a brutal climb & off camber descent + a wooded section with another gradual climb then a near vertical descent. Very happy with the race in general as I managed to pick people off throughout even though the river crossings slowed me more than others so I was constantly battling for position with the same few folk as I was faster on the flat/downhill. Pleasingly I only slowed by 15s from 1st to 3rd lap.
Not sure where I finished overall as I left almost immediately: I'm pretty confident no medals were likely. 6 thigh deep river crossings had left my shorts & feet soaking so I was frozen as soon as the race finished. Fortunately I have a decent heater in the car
I'm through the deepest part already here!!
A standard Saturday for you then Jooligan. Glad you are getting your speed back.
16 miles with 8 @ MP for me today. Was a bit worried about it as it would be my longest run since VLM last year and my first MP workout since then. Conditions were fab though and it went well with the MP miles averaging about 6:45. Frustratingly the GPS went a bit doolally at the end of the final MP mile and made it look like I was fading. I definitely did not ;-)
The challenge with these tough marathon workouts is trying to doing anything productive with the rest of your day!
SQ - i think that old chichester course was so fast due to the downhill last 2k. Eastleigh is probably quicker though.
Good going Ramjet, thats a strong run so early on, you should be able to do a few more MP miles on top of the 8 later in the plan, and thats a very good indicator if you can do around 10+ in a long run.
6:45s for MP at this stage, with a big week, puts you in a great place, Ramjet. Keep it up.
Yes, TR, I loved that downhill finish.
Nice long run chicksta. Just think of all the speed reserve you’ve built up in the process. For what it’s worth I felt the P&L plan left me pretty marathon fit. It went to 18 or 19 if I remember correctly.
14M MLR for me this morning. Took it easy as conscious of the big effort yesterday. 7:32 average flagging a little by the end, which is very rare. Although anything other than a recovery post race is unusual for me so perhaps not unexpected. Then enjoyed supporting a club run on the Cotswold Way. Great fun cheering the runners on and building dens in the woods.
Spotted a couple of other decent LRs on Strava from Spoons & Joe too. I expect Macca will bang out an ultra about 9 or 10 this evening
As SQ mentioned I backed up yesterday's faster stuff with another 20M on the local trails which involved a fair bit of climbing again. First 13 was with the club then a bonus 7 solo. Nothing speedy but nevertheless I was knackered by the end, mind you I'd had no breakfast & took nothing with me not even water. I've done 4x20M in the last 4 weeks + 2 more in November - only did 2 during the Abo build-up! That's 80M already in 2018
I need to stop leaving so long between posts, lots going on! Although catching up is a great excuse to put off my yoga session...
Jooligan as soon as the mess-up became clear I remembered you warning me about them last time! Lesson learned. Great work with XC, 350th parkrun, and some solid long runs. Great photo as usual too!
That’s great you’ve got your mum running Joe. Congrats on the podium in Edinburgh and good luck for the job interviews. Enjoyed your 2018 round-up too, what a year you had!
Good to hear from you JCG, it’s great you’re getting back in to things after the twins.
SQ it was north up the river and on to the Droitwich canal. Unfortunately while the canal is generally nice compacted gravel (as you know), the first 1/2 mile was a quagmire, not sure why that section was so bad! Wouldn’t worry about the MP run so soon after the 20 miler, as you say still a solid workout. Great work at the XC yesterday too.
Sounds like a great run-commute route AWC. I’ve considered a standing desk but I think my legs deserve a rest sometimes! I do make an effort to move about through the day though, and try to walk about during phone meetings etc to avoid being stuck in one position all the time.
Bad luck with the frozen hands chicksta. Great news about parkrun, I see it’s at the park by the lake? What a beautiful area for a parkrun!
Thanks Ramjet yes slowly getting there. Agree about the still weather currently, made those couple of cold days at least bearable. Nice work on the MP run today.
Welcome George, don’t worry too much about the disrupted start to training, plenty of time yet.
That’s a great time off a short build-up TR. Personally I tend towards MP+10% on long runs, as I like to make them a good workout. I work off effort/heart rate though and have learned what is sustainable for me. If MP+10% is impacting the rest of your training too much, I wouldn’t be afraid to slow up. There’s no one way and it’s about finding what works for you.
Hope the new shoes do the job FBT.
Macca your training lately is incredible, your consistency is clearly paying dividends. Look forward to seeing the results.
Big three days for me, a 16/5 double on Friday was decent, especially in such chilly (though thankfully ice free) weather. I always feel a bit sluggish when it’s super-cold. That was followed by 11 on the canal yesterday then 22 miles this morning. Lovely conditions, cold without being freezing and pretty still. Pace was marginally progressive and averaged 7:11/mi.
Main thing is with 50 miles in 3 days there are no signs of the PF flaring up, so fingers crossed I can crack on and hopefully get back to where I was...
Spoons - thanks, +10% is some tough running. I'll do the odd progressive as per Saturday and see how it goes. I'll alternate with some slower time on feet runs for a good mix. Good one on controlling the PF, i stopped running for a good few months in 2016 due to PF and a groin/stomach issue. Its been tough (and humbling) trying to get back to where i was 4 or 5 years ago as im now over 50. But sub3 is still possible.
Loads of great LRs and MLRs and frozen horse turd avoidance, too late (12:20) to mention them in detail but noted😁
Ramjet - Good to see you back. Solid pace already
Joe - Bummer about the job. Fingers crossed. Great that running is going well again. I'm not surprised you're keen to have another good crack at an IM. I would really like to know how well you would've done in Bolton if you weren't hit by a car. I reckon you would've smashed that run.
Everyone else - great running, etc
I did like the talk of frozen horse turds. I rolled my ankle on a dry cow pat last summer.
Just 22 and 15 miles last couple of weeks. Maybe a bit less than hoped but not too concerned. Got lots of sleep and generally took it easy. Also did plenty of walks with the family, including a Snowdon accent with my 2 year old in a backpack.
11.5 miles this morning with 7.5 mile offroad, hilly tempo. Didn't bust a gut but just a solid effort.
Jools (and SQ) - That looks horrid. I'm with Chicksta, hate getting wet feet. So not for me, Im a fair weather dry runner.
Bad news for me as I seem to have caught a bout of Plantar fasciitis. I thought it was just sore feet with horrid new shoes from a month or 2 ago, but after a 10 mile run yesterday with pain in the arches and the pain in the heel first thing this morning, it def seems like plantar fasciitis. I think it must be due to the horrid new pair of shoes I bought, as never had this before. Any advice from anyone (cue Spoons...)? stop running? keep running? I have new Asics coming this week, so hopefully that will help. will take a few days off first and reassess.
Ramjet - cracking MP run so early in the year, must give you a nice bit of confidence.
Chick - I know what you mean about losing the edge endurance wise, do you plan to slip in a 15 miler every few weeks or so?
Spoons - 3 huge days for you! Already back on the mega mileage. Great to see. Decent pace on that long run as well.
HA - sounds like you had a great break. I'm always quite envious of you actually, as you seem to really be able to take a bit of time off to recharge and not worry about missed miles etc. I think it's probably a lesson to the rest of us, as you still seem to get the results you want and it works well.
FBT - really sorry to hear. Katie has been diagnosed with the same thing and has been to see a couple of physios. She's stopped running completely for a while, and is doing lots of prescribed stretches and strength exercises.
Backed up saturdays 3x5km with a solid 20 miles @ 7:15mm yesterday. First 7 were around 7:30 but then jump in with the club Sunday run which seemed to accelerate things but wasn't too taxing. Legs pretty knackered today though, just a really easy recovery 6.