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Hard Training - Dawn (Hilly)
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Really bad new's.
He is also busy at work, if he doesn't post I'll find out.
He had a scan on Friday but has to wait a week for result's as the Doc is on holiday!
In my opinion hilly you don't have a stress fracture, going on what SiT has told me about his!
Cheers Tim, I do hope I haven't got one.
Made it to 50miles this week, which is the first time since injury about 8 weeks ago. Feeling quite positive but tired!
Hilly, I don't think you have a stress fracture, this would be a very sharp pain particularly to the touch and I don't think you would be able to do the training you have done with it - however, for peace of mind have a scan as it will rule it out.
I'm probably not the best person to ask about the detailed physiology of switchable A/B muscle, my knowledge is mostly anecdotal and book reading dates back to my degree some time ago. Effectively however, I think AB muscle will respond to the type of training you are doing, so if you're working on a high aerobic base it will develop the characteristics of slow twitch muscle.
There isn't that much difference in the levels of aerobic/anaerobic training for 10km and marathon (surprisingly) both are heavily reliant on aerobic training, in a marathon you can run well on only 5% of anaerobic training, for a 10km this may be 10%, or for most people one additional interval session.
Training for 10km speed means training at 5km pace or faster, there are changes to mitocondria when running at these speeds that are benificial to endurance athletes. So by maintaining your level of aerobic training, but introducing some interval training at faster speeds you can impove your 10km speed and maintain your endurance capacity. Ultimately if you don't improve your 10km speed you can only improve your marathon so far as the differential gets too small.
There is obviously a trade off - I maybe could have run 28 mins and a bit for 10km if I had reduced my mileage a bit more in the summer, but accepted a moderate PB as the marathon was more important. In my generation Alberto Salazar was the top marathon runner and also a very fast 10km runner (close to 27 mins) at one time he was 1 1/2 mins quicker than me over 10km, but exactly the same margin over the marathon. He ran his marathons off fairly low mileage - reported around 70 miles per week - but I think he under achieved over the marathon and would have run much quicker if he did higher mileage.
On the otherhand, in Brendan Fosters book (writen by my coach Cliff Temple) Foster gives a few sample weeks training during his build up to winning the European 5km Chamionships. The week totaled 120 miles, included a 2 hr run, one day he did 3 steady runs, he completed a heavy interval session mid week then on Fri night competed for GB in an international at 1,500m, winning it in 3.41.
I personally don't think that a high level of aerobic training affects speed that much - look at Paula's 5,000m yesterday, and when mixed with the right Interval work at the right time for most runners there can be improvements in times for the shorter distances.
As for tiredness, Foster mentions in his book that during the bulk period of his training through the spring the most he wanted to do was get out of the arm chair to shuffle over to the TV to change channels. However, when the body has become conditioned you can do a 120 mile week including winning a 1,500m race. I managed the same, but not quite so spectacularly as Foster, before LM I ran 22 miles in the morning and in the afternoon ran the fastest leg in the Cambridge Harriers Road relay. Also before the 83 World Champs ran 22 miles in the morning with keith Penny (who was a 2.13 marathon runner) and in the afternoon won the Southark 5 miles in around 23.30. All the time I maintain sufficient leg speed to run 51 sec 400ms in Southern League track & field meets. It's a very complex thing the body.
If you browse around that site there's a few other relevant pages including the one on shin splints.
From what I can tell, if you access twenty different sources on this subject they'll all agree on 95% of the issues but there'll always be some differences on what seem to me to be key points like, for example, exactly what the pain of a SF feels like or how the symptoms will irst manifest themselves and perhaps this is because there are many paths to the mountaintop. In my case, it came on slowly, seemingly a case of Medial Shin Splints that just wouldn't go away no matter how much I iced, stretched, did shin-strengthening exercises, went to the physio or wished it away. Each training run seemed to make the situation a tiny bit worse until I ended up in a bad way at the end of April. Seven weeks of almost total rest later I still have some sensation of the leg being 'not quite right' and hope to resume very light running training some time soon.
One problem I had with bone scans/MRI's etc was that here in Ireland I'd have to pay for them and they're not exactly cheap. You also have to remember that they're inconclusive in some cases. You can for instance have an 'occult' or internal fracture which may not show on a scan. From reading through Hilly's posts I'd also agree that it looks unlikely that it is a SF in his case but having gone through such running turmoil myself over the last few weeks I'll always pay super close attention to any other lower leg injuries I come across again.
Hope all goes well for you Hilly.
Hilly hope it is not a stress fracture.
I was still running with my first stress fracture and got up to about 13 miles once or twice but really in some discomfort which gradually got worse and worse as time went on and the lets grit the teeth and bear it approach failed. My problem was that I initially never felt it hurt enough for it to be a stress fracture as described.
Not fully sure what is up with me now. Did slow 8 miler last night with Mary with leg ok at the time but extremely sore next to shin bone this am. Doctor thought it was either another stress fracture or more likely periostitis. Will find out more a week today when he is back.
Simon
I too have soreness next to the shin bone, but not on the bone. Sounds very similar to what you have Simon. When I got my last stress fracture I'd had some problems with tight calves, but then one day I was running and bang extreme pain and couldn't put my foot down.
My physio doesn't think I have a stress and said it could be tibial tendernitis as it was one of longus muscle/tendons that I tore.
Hoping my week off will allow some more healing so I can continue to build for my marathon.
After work will be my last proper running for the week as off on holiday in the early hours, so will do the drills and shuttle runs again to see if there's any progress on leg speed. Report back later.
I too didn't believe that I had a stress fracture even after the bone scan had diagnosed it as I didnt think that it hurt enough although like you Simon my symptoms did get worse and I was able to do less. Thats why I continued to run and am paying for it now with 3 months off. Maybe we runners have a high pain threshold or do the endorphins help to mask pain until a certain point?
I'm sorry if I sound negative when Hilly needs positive encouagement but I think that excluding a sf might be a good idea, and as Mike G said, give her peace of mind.
Have a great holiday, hope all goes well.
Did the drills again tonight and just 2 miles easy pace. Went well, but still not totally comfortable, so will put my feet up this week and hope for a improvement on my return.
Bye for now.
:O)
Re books - I've just finished reading 'Marathon Running - From beginner to elite' by Richard Nerurkar, and found it really inspiring (and it's not often I think that about a running book, I usually end up being put off running by all the scientific bits).
It's very well written, and also well put together - chapters on various aspects, illustrated by examples from Nerurkar's own running and full descriptions of what training he did for which marathon and how he felt it panned out/how readers could adapt the ideas for a 3:30 or a 4:30 or even a 5:30 marathon.
The only downside was the huge crash to earth afterwards when I realised that actually, I'm not capable of a 2:08 marathon - I got a bit carried away with some of the more inspiring bits.
Anyway, if you have to put your feet up, you may as well read this whilst you do so!
Has anyone seen Hilly?
Thanks Snail and agree the book is a good read. It's one I have in my collection.
Blisters sorry to hear about the bum muscle and hope it's not serious. Let me know how you get on with treatment.
The only run I did on holiday was one 3 mile jog on the second day after which I decided to rest up completely. I swam a couple of times and did quad biking, body boarding, jet skiing and walked a lot to keep active.
My leg has felt good all week, but tomorrow will be my first run to find out if there is still anything to be concerned about. 10 miles planned and I can't wait. I nearly went tonight, but my other half didn't think it was a good idea, so really looking forward to the morning!
Thanks for your posts. It sounds like you had an absolutely fab holiday. Have a good run today.
Good news to report from my run. Did 12 miles and felt good. Eased into the run over the first 2 miles as a warm-up, then picked up the pace for 5 miles and felt like I was moving quite smoothly. Didn't bother with timing myself as I wanted to run as I felt rather than try to get round in a particular time.
At 7 miles I felt a bit tired and slipped off a curb, this was the only time I felt any sign of my injury and thought oh no it's going to be painful, but I slowed and it eased right off! Kept a steady pace until 10 miles then did fartlek between every 2 lamp-posts for 1 mile, just upping the pace enough to be breathing hard but not flat out. Finally eased right off for the final mile to cool down.
Surprisingly I felt ok and just ran how my body wanted today. A little tightness in calf now I'm finished, but no pain!!
Did need my asthma inhaler today though due to hay fever-blimming nuisance!!
Today- pm leg drills at track plus 10*100m of 'quick feet'
Friday-10 miles 8:30 m/m pace
Sat-am 5 miles incl 3mins fast, 3 mins slow *6. pm swim 800m
Sun-18 miles LSD with 12 off road.
If any sign of injury this could change!
Did drills tonight of 2*50m each of high knees, bum kicks, quick steps, then 5*100m in 17-18 secs, 1*800m in 3.15, 1*400m in 90 secs. This was about as much as I could do with my leg at the moment as it was just starting to ache, when I decided to be sensible!