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Sub 3:00 FLM 2006
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Is Mica Any relation of yours batfink?
30 seconds below par for 10k. The race was perfectly to effort-level plan, and I had a shoulder-mate.
It was just that I could have trained harder and been faster.
Onwards.
Stiffen the sinews, sharpen the sword, gird thine loins, for this is but the dawn of the day. We must be prepared for defeat, but rejoice in the victory if it bestowed upon us.
(Apologies for rampant half remembered plagerisms)
Back online, but have lost everybody's email addresses. So if you already have mine, get in touch so that I can update my pc. Ta.
94M last week - not a patch on CRABs, and he doesnt even have a marathon coming up soon! I dread to think how high he'll go before Dublin. One more long run this w/e and lots of concentrating on speedwork now.
my legs have finally recovered from my hill reps on Friday so I did 4x2m @ MP pace today for a total run of ~12m. Felt good.
but apart from MP runs and hill reps I ain't doing any other speedwork..
CM - generally 2 tempo runs a week (6.20 - 6.40s dependent), and 1 or 2 intervals e.g 10 x 1k reps @ 17.5kph with 400m @ 14.1kph recovery runs. I find the tready useful for my intervals I'm ashamed to admit. Plus 1 long run and 3 or 4 steady runs of 10-16M. I do hill reps as part of my steady runs.
so your temp runs are really ~marathon pace runs.
And then you do those 1k reps and hill reps seperately..
what sort of hill reps are they ? I mean are they short and lots e.g. 15 x 30 secs, or longer with fewer e.g. 3 x 4 mins ?
4 x 800m in 2:30, 2:32, 2:31, 2:32 in flats (off 200m jog)
Changed into spikes, then:
4 x 300m in 49, 50, 50, 49 (off 100m walk)
2 x 200m in 29, 27 off 100m walk
The 300's seemed quite relaxed, but would translate to a sub 4:10 1500m - just a case of stringing them together in a race, but still being able to find a turn of pace in the last 200m, which also appears to be coming along.
He trains for about 15 miles per week and races 800 - 1500 over summer - he's around the 1:50 / 3:50 mark at the moment, but looking to shave a few seconds off. Now his session last night was 8 x 400m in 57 - 59s with 2 min recoveries - and this was in big fat trainers.
Now why can he run sub 15mins for a 5km and close to 25mins for 5 miles?
My thoughts:
i) His body is used to the high intensity reps and working at high HRs. This training is very effective at strengthening CV system.
ii) His body is highly efficient at clearing lactic acid at high HRs.
iii) His average training pace must be about 5 min miles, so his 5M race pace will probably feel like a cruise (it certainly looked like like that).
iv) This type of training has made his intermediate & FT muscle fibres more efficient.
v) Near perfect technique - he's been coached since a kid.
vi) He's exceptionally talented, and has chosen his parents well.
So in summary, I could see reasons both why and why not this would relate to decreased HR at marathon speed, but short of convincing him to run a marathon, it's hard to find out for sure.
certainly don't think that all the adaptations caused by "faster" running are useful for marathon e.g. ii) and iv). But some of it definitely is, e.g.
v) - improved running "economy", longer stride lengh ?
i) - improved VO2 max ?
and the added strength (i.e. anti-fatigue work) that comes with it.
Would i and ii not help pull his LT up, rather than our 'push up' womble approach? Would forcing your body to cope with L not be a stronger stimulus to stop making it than a womble?
His conversion of 1500 speed to 5km pace is poor though, which perhaps does show the limitations of this approach - but then he's not taking these seriously.
I have a feeling that the non-scientific answer is along the lines of "you can't run sub 2:15 until you can run a sub 30 10km... you can't run a sub 30 10km until your're running 14:30 for 5km - and that's running back to back 4:21 1500s, so that needs to be comfortable etc."
that makes sense..
I remember reading that training too far above LT too much causes you to go anaerobic more quickly i.e. you get better at going anaerobic, in fact this is what sprinters and short distance runners want..
Won't tell your mum
.....honest!
Entered my first tri today - and assuming everything stays together and in the spirit of this thread, another intending to line-up for the Autumn marathon of choice, the Cardiff Marathon, and seek to avoid the sub 3 hr hangover.
Interesting run this morning. Staying in Peterborough (which on reflection must qualify as the place with the most inappropriate nickname - one thing it isn't is Posh) so decided to make use of the lack of binlids to get a good long run in before work. Set off at Great Uncle Bulgaria pace and within 10minutes my legs were aching like mad - more so than on any NADfest. Stopped had a cursory stretch and carried on but no better. Lasted about half an hour before finally subsiding and then manifesting in numb left foot for 20minutes. Ended up completing 19miles but no idea what was going on with me pins at the beginning. Anyone else suffered from this? Did have an unscheduled rest day yesterday (first for ages) due to work etc getting right in the way - when a customer turns up nearly 3 hours late for an appt and then insists on taking you straight out for dinner to apologize how do you manage to tell them they're actually compounding the error because now you're planned evening run aint gonna happen? Now I thought rest days were supposed to be good for you.
OO - Who said anything about me running 2:15? That was Mr Hypothetical. I think I'd find my absolute limits 10+ minutes above that, but then I liked MG's comment that I should be running my 1500s in sub 4. 64 second per lap x 3.75 - sounds easy, right?
JEJ - Just wanted to stress you out a bit. This btw seems to be the 'new' management mantra with the various businesses I am working with. Seems we all spending too much time in our comfort zones. Speak for their bloody selves, do they have burning achilles, bleeding nips, throbbing calves, and a personality type A competitiveness obsession. Got you thinking about it, though didnt it?
Been following the thread for a while now for any advice relevant.
Having done FLM 2001 on 4 weeks training with long run 11 miles, I do not want to repeat that experience or run 4 that long again!
Like R.B doing Edinburgh in couple of weeks and looking for sub 3.20 with a view to building on that with a 5k at PSUK champs in July and then onto Cardiff for sub 3... Hopefully.
Training was going well 12m 1.26, 22m 2.45 and comfortable until I worked 2 17 hour shifts back to back and struggled round 15m dropping speed in last 3.
I now need convincing of the taper as want to do one more long run on Sun 28th (half-m planned) with 10k planned for 4th the week before.
Would I benefit from pushing the half or steady long run with 2 weeks left?
If all goes to plan then flm 2007 to do it justice!
Odeon
However
Dan A - would I have seen you on Putney Bridge last night at about 7.30pm? I was coming off Lower Richmond Rd heading south and saw a Dan A shaped figure (as spotted in RW) heading north over the bridge? You were a bit too far away to shout to and as we've not met, I assume you'd not've stopped anyway!
the (stalking) bat
JEJ That's what I was kind of thinking - the muscles got the spliffs out and thinking it was holiday season or summat pulled down the shutters. Must remember not to take a rest day in future. Bad CRAB!
Should give me confidence to begin taper 2 weeks out.
I'm now of the easy-20-mile-2-weeks-out school. I wouldn't race a HM then though - what's the point?
10km a week out... depends how quickly you recover. Paula R did it at the world champs and ran an ok marathon, but I wouldn't risk anything over 5km.
See you in Cardiff.
Have to agree with you about tri's being expensive. Doing Windsor in a few weeks time and that was £65 for an Olympic. Well you always get the answer you don't have to do it if you don't want to. I do but I don't want to spend an arm and a leg to do it. You may not have looked at how pricey an Ironman (Official one) costs but you would want to get a remortgage. Tri's in France are a lot cheaper but I think that's to do with their Councils (or French Equivalent) as when you do tri's here no Council or waterways authority or police are going to subsidise you. How are we gonna get medals in 2012 when I remember one swimmer (Paul Palmer) in the 1996 Olympics was using a local 25m to do most of his training and he was only alotted a small amount of time in the pool before the blue rinse brigade started doing breast stroke. Sorry rant over.
odeon, agree with Jej, don't race the 1/2m two weeks out. WTFP and you may not recover from it + the other faster (albeit shorter) work you will do in the last two weeks. Its prob a good one to do a marathon pace, with some easy miles after (or before)..
Recent races 63.40 10m PB Apr06
Vienna Marathon 3.02.04 10secs outside PB May06
Weather wet with 15mph westerly wind. Course flat (yes CRAB even for me!)
5k PB 18.15 Oct05
10k PB 40.14 May04 (soft target!)
Currently running 55mpw down from 80mpw, and weight has gone up by 3-4lbs.
So few folks on here at the moment I doubt if anyone will bother, but you can but try.
1st day of leave so just opening btle of champagne with gf.
DN- I have every confidence looking at recent PB's. I'll punt for 18.22- So near but yet so far....