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Sub 3:00 FLM 2006
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Whats the p-doug and where is it to be found?
I see many familiar faces on this thread. Hopefully I'll be able to do London again this year after a disaster last year but this depends on me (a) getting round dublin in sub 3 and (b) the blighters not changing the GFA standards. Also have a good chance of a charity spot from a relative who works for one.
I've been lurking for a bit 'cos I don't know if I'm going to commit to an all out London sub-3 effort or concentrate more on tri's next year. Depends if I break the magical figure in berlin.
Nichs 2 best of luck for a speedy and stable recovery from your ear op. You seem to be fairly chipper about it, although I detect an undercurrent of nerves. I hope it sorts out the problem.
JEJ, that's some great mileage that you're putting in, doubles are THE way to up the totals. Do tell us how the 5 k went, won't you?
Ouch Ouch I'm sort of committed to Cardiff myself too. Ie I've booked the hotel, but yet to enter. I've told wifey, well, you know, in the way that one can actually tell one's spouse anything. Delicate might be the phrase. That and writing it on the calendar.
Toucan - yes I recognise the handle...
Got a great midweek 12 miler in yesterday, but a long drive and boozy meal in meant that I've blown out tonight. Hey ho. It'll probably do me good.
My office is closed today so I'll have a good chance to up the milage today, but I have an 800m and 3km SC at the track tomorrow so will be keeping the pace slow - thinking about 3 sessions of 4 - 5 miles to keep the distance up whilst keeping the stress on my legs minimal.
Looks like it will be an 80 mile week if I get in some jogging around the track meet and a 20 miler on Sunday - that will be my higher milage ever.
Since FLM (3:05:01) I have cut back to around 45mpw and focussed on including two speed sessions a week (one threshold, one intervals) with a long run and recovery runs thrown in. (I've also taken up Pilates.) It's the first time I've done speedwork.
The outcome has been good. My 10K PB (never my best distance) has come down from 42.50 to 39.14 over the past two months, and the 39.14 was achieved in the wind and rain with less than ideal conditions underfoot. Sub 39 should be possible in the near future.
I hadn't really committed to running a marathon before having a crack at sub-3 next year. The plan had been to focus on lowering the 10K time and speedwork over the summer, and play it by ear for an autumn race but possibly aiming for a fast half marathon.
As it is, I feel strong and fit so fourteen weeks out from Cardiff I thought I would do two weeks of Pfitzinger and then, depending on how I feel, either go for the full or the half.
It'll boil down to a). how I feel with regard to going back to 70mpw plus again, and b). whether waiting till April or going for it in October is likely to give me a better shot at sub-3.
If anyone wants to offer an opinion on that, they'd be welcome to do so.
go for it! if the milage has been consistent and the training good, take the opportunity now. One of the problems (I've found) with marathon training is that you put so much effort into months of preparation, that there is increased pressure to perform on the day. enjoy the progress you are making...
all the best
The last five weeks have averaged about 45 miles a week (including a 16 mile long run) but stepping back up to 60 and following the last 14 weeks of the Pfitzinger 16 week programme to prepare for Cardiff shouldn't (physically, anyway) be a problem in terms of distace. I also feel strong generally and I am not "tired."
I will stick to the plan of embarking on the first two weeks of Pfitzinger and then deciding, but I think if it goes well then I am minded to agree with you and will go for Cardiff.
My worry isn't really physical (I know I can handle it from that perspective.) It's more that if I commit to Cardiff, I want to put 101% into going for sub-3 and my one question is whether I am mentally set for the training and the race.
That might sound pretentious -- it's not intended to. I just don't want to go through the motions and fail to reach the goal for lack of focus and lack of enjoyment simply because my body is capable of putting the training in.
Anyway, if it all clicks into place over the next two weeks, Cardiff it is!
First third = miles
2nd 1/3 = more miles, and some speed
last 1/3 = trial races, and then the taper (2 weeks)
Within this I want 6 or 7x 20 milers, alternating with 14-15 range.
My commitment then becomes broken into 1 or 2 week chunks, and the reality of my diary can be seen.
A new reality check came in with my preps for FLM 05, and that was to try and do the long runs at target mara pace. I believe that this really helped on the day.
What you say flies in conventional wisdom - or rather pfitzinger & douglas's wisdom. They recommend that first half of long runs are done at 20% slower than target MP and the second half are done at 10% slower than MP. What with helping build up fat burning potential and that.
My first 20-miler for a Sept marathon is (over)due this weekend but have been doing plenty of runs of 11-15 mile distance - the majority at sub MP. Not really aimed for this but that's how it went. I'm hoping these will do me some good but also worried that I'm just getting gone at half distance and will balloon at 17 miles in the marathon.
I guess I'll know the answer come sunday afternoon but how do you think that MP long runs helped you out? and are they a good idea?
I was posting my early 21 milers in the 3 hour zone ie 8:30 m/m, but Mike Gratton reckoned I was going a bit too easy on them. I managed to up the 21 mile pace to 7:15- 7:20 average, ie goal MP+5%.
This helped because it got my legs used to the work rate for the distance, ie the ability to handle lactic build up, as well as those other important CV muscles, which have got to get trained to the work rate at the distance.
I managed GMP pace for 13 milers.
On the day I finished fresher than I have for any of my previous marathons. OK I knew that I had missed sub 3 when at 20 miles, so just kept it steady from there. My 3:06 could have been 3:03, big deal, neither is 2:59:59. A huge confidence boost though.
800m - 2:16
3km SC - 11:55
Although I know I can go faster, given I accumulated 18 miles on Friday, I thought I did ok.
I only did the 800 out of interest and with no specific training & this was my second SC, so up til then I'd only ever lept 28 hurdles in my life - glad to report they're getting easier.
Now just fueling up for a 20 miler - looks like it's going to be a hot day:)
JEJ
I'm hoping to get 20 milers to 7:10 pace and aim for MP for half distance or so. Managed 14 miles at 6:46 pace the other day but this was somewhat wind assisted.
OK you took the bait Toucan. I erm, CBA to work it out again this far in advance.
Who's on what range?
I've started double training sessions 4 or 5 times per week which has let me add an extra 20+ miles without being any more tired than usual. It also seems to help keep a decent pace in all my runs - the only one which is too slow for my liking is my Wednesday lunchtime 8 - 10 miler - partly because of the heat, partly due to Tues night's speedwork.
On a rest day today in preperation for a triathlon tomorrow - first tri of the year so a little nervous!
Racing season, and I only do one marathon a year, LM in the spring.
Also struggling with a hamstring niggle at the mo.
Will start building again in September, getting to 50 pw by December in prep for Pfitzinger 18 weeker.
I'm hoping that a 60 mpw average from Jan to April will get me 2:45 next April. I'd be doing about that now, if I didn't have to keep cutting sessions short because of the heat!
Not had to cut short any miles 'cos of the temp but last week's 20-miler was slow.
Good news on the GFA times.
Not posted for a while due to slight injury niggles, but getting back on track now.I'm targeting Cardiff for my sub 3hr and have also been following the P+D 18 wk shedule, the last 6 weeks have been mid 60's(I still can't manage the rest day on monday's)
I am not worried about g.f.a as thats already taken care of (v40)but it has been a long term goal to go sub 3hr, so Cardiff it is and then London.
I'm a lot slower than you lot. I did 3:06:36 this year off consistent 70-80 mile weeks. The aim for London next year is to go for consistent 80-100 mile weeks. I seem to need the big mile weeks to bring the best out of myself.
None of my short distance races seem to produce the results I should be getting, so I guess the marathon is my distance.
I'm doing New Forest marathon in Sept, but I'm doing it because it's a Dorset championship race. I'll then use the base to build on for London, after a short recovery.
I'm another who has rubbish short distance times. I've only been under 40min for 10K twice. But I've never race a 5K as I don't see much point and for races shorter than halfs I don't normally bother tapering.
Oh and you were over 15 mins ahead of me this year.
Just wondering if anyone else is finding it hard to build the miles up again, am finding it a real slog.I like to race but find the training hard and am starting to wonder if it would be better to have a break and forget Abingdon (Oct) and aim again fresh for London.Btw my 10k pb is 38.00 and half 1.24, it's interesting to see who's cracked the sub 3 on faster and slower time's over different distances.
I only managed a 3:13 FLM this year which I'm trying to put right in Berlin in about 10 weeks time.
In March my 10km time was only just sub 40 (although a hilly course) but now I've done a sub 36, plus a 28:40 5 miler - I'm aiming to have 8 x 20 mile+ runs in the 3 month build-up to Berlin rather than 4 for FLM so I'm a lot more confident about hitting target this time.
I've found that doing less but faster track work (eg 12 x 400m @ 72s per lap with 45sec recovery rather than 20 x 400 @ 85s per lap) has been the main factor in cutting down my 5 - 10mile times.
I can now do a 2'14" 800m on the track and will be aiming for a 4'50" mile in August - in March I wouldn't have dreamed of that!
I ran those times for 10K and half early last year, and for me those equated to a 3:03 spring marathon; I then ran 2:58 last autumn, when I was on 1:22 form for the half. A bit difficult to draw exact parallels, as preparation, weather and course will always make at least one or two minutes difference.
Whether you run Abingdon or not, I'd have thought you need to plan in a break at some point for a month or so. Maybe do Abingdon and have an easy November?
Thats a great half time,i don't think i can get my half time down that much, i ran 1.24.25 at Silverstone this year and you can't get an easier course then that!, so i think thats about as fast as my little legs can go.
Your right about a break and November would be quite a quiet month for me anyway(except xc)
I think am hanging on to Abingdon as i believe it's got more potential for a faster time than London ,and it should be cooler!.
Also, our club captain can do 2:56 marathons (and, more extravagantly, broke 3 hours twice in 2 weeks) but can't get under about 1:24 for a half.
I'd like to have a serious attempt at getting the half time down, as I quite like the distance. I think it'll be Bath next year now as any half marathons around my way are hilly and summer is not a good time for me to race.
I'm not sure what time I'm going for at New Forest as I understand it's an undulating course and training hasn't been has good as it was for FLM. I'll leave it until a bit closer to the day to decide a pace to run.