Sub 3:00 FLM 2006

[Deleted User]

True! Planning my first run in 6 weeks for lunchtime today - 3 miles on the track VERY slow with plenty of calf stretching to see how injury is.

Hilly

Good luck, AP!

Gold Rush

Morning All,
Venom- Well done on the mk half, that looks a pretty impressive time to me.
Well I managed a 75 mile week last week including a 22m on Sunday. I feel as I have to get the miles in as I lack a bit of basic speed, however I've got a 10k next week so hoping to get the p.b down a bit,mind you It's not ideal race prep running 60-70 m/p/w. still I'll give it my best shot.
Hope everyones training is going well, I certainly appreciate this cooler weather.
G.R

Running Bhoy

Hail Hail

Back from family hols to Brittany where I seem to have gained about 5lbs. Ohh the croissants!!!
Before I went off I did East Kilbride half in sub 1.23 anew pb. 1 week later, in Brittany I did sub 1.25 in a trail half, although the records show me as a vet (catergory 4) - 70-75 yrs!!!! A new world record I think. Ed Whitlock is still eating my dust!!!!!
Couldnt manage much more training than 12-13M due to the heat, so I feel a bit behind in my schedule (esp compared to Gold Rush).

As a point that I raised about a month ago, London have confirmed that GFA qualifying times are still the same as last year, so I've deffo got a place for next year. Will now be aiming for sub 2.55.

[Deleted User]

Hello All, can i join you lot?
Last year i was on sub 3.30 and got 3.17 having totally hit the wall during last 6 miles. So next year i have the benefit of hindsight into what i did wrong. I only started running last August so i have a bit more experience and obviously a head start on the training this time, although i have slackened off lately... tsk,tsk,tsk.

I have a few races planned in the next few months to keep up my motivation and have just ordered a Garmin Forerunner 301 to make my trg a little more scientific.

Depending on how my trg goes i may be flitting between this and the 3.15 and 3.30 forums, but here is where i want to be come next April, although this forum means a lot of pain is coming my way!

[Deleted User]

Oh dear, I just posted without reading your previous posts. Now im scared, I did MK Half on Sunday and got 1.36. Admittedly i have hardly done any trg lately, but even so some of you guys who were there were 16 minutes faster than me!
Should I stay or should i go... to another thread?

[Deleted User]

Swanny - if you've only been running a year, and have already managed a 3:17 marathon, sub 3 next April is far from impossible, and if you get your training right, perhaps even odd on like. Best getting back into proper training sooner rather than later though! Best of luck.

[Deleted User]

For me i think lack of mileage scuppered me this year. Max i did in trg prior to '05 was 20 miles (done in 2.30 roughly) and i only did that twice. I have heard people say that you dont need to go further than this but i will be for next year, and more than twice!
I wasnt helped by a weeks skiing in March and 3 weeks off completely over Christmas due to injury.

[Deleted User]

20+ milers are absolutely key to marathon training - I think the rule of thumb that your five longest runs should add up to at least 100 miles has a lot of truth in it. Think my five longest were 23, 21, 21, 20, 19 this year, maybe not idea but was enough to get my goal! This time round the plan is to maintain a long run of 15 - 17 miles at least once a fortnight (just about keeping that going despite the recent heat), pushing it up to 18 - 19 miles by December. Then the plan is to do a 20+ miler every other week from January to April, with a slightly shorter and faster long run on the intervening weeks. Hopefully that might be me under 2:45!

What kind of time were you aiming for this year, and what was your time at half way? Any idea what kind of weekly mileage you think you'll be able to average in the four or five months before the marathon?

Boniface Earl Jones

Welcome Swanny. With a 3:17 and hitting the wall @ 20 miles, I'm guessing your FLM split was close to 90 mins? With better pacing alone, I'm sure you could have gone below 3:15 so your presence here is fully justified.

You have plenty of time to start building up a base for a sub 3 next year. Right now in your position I'd be targetting 10km / half marathon speed - general thinking is that times in the region of 37:30 / sub 83mins equate to a sub 3, but then everybody if different and there's nothing to say that somebody who can only run an 89min half can't keep up that speed for another 90 mins!

Tmap

Swanny - I tried something similar - I ran a 3:12 in autumn 2002 on little training and assumed that a sub-3 the next spring would be achievable, and it was a bit of a catastrophe. I did it eventually, but after another 18 months of training. But I'm still glad I tried. You sound like you're starting from a better base. However, you need to bear in mind that training is something over months and years, not weeks - your week skiing will not have made the slightest difference to your speed and fitness. There's no avoiding the fact that you need to get quicker at shorter races and base your target around that.

You should still try it though, and anyway, what's to lose about posting on the thread?

Hilly

Hi Swanny, if this is where you want to be, then go for it!

I'm slower than most on this thread too, but my goal is to get 3hrs or 2:59:o)

I did 1:27 1/2M on an undulating course on Sun, so know i've got a way to go yet, but inch by inch or I should say minute by minute the times are coming down.

Think positive, train well and go get your goal!!

I've now got just under 8 weeks until NF marathon, so am pleased at where I am at this stage of training. I've got another 1/2M next Sunday and a couple of 5k's and 10k's for sharpening coming up too. The most difficult thing is running all my races on tired legs at the moment and knowing that if I were tapered I could go a bit faster. At least the weather isn't so hot at the moment, so no excuses there!

[Deleted User]

Thanks for all the positive feedback and support guys, its much appreciated and makes me feel like i belong on this thread but i think i might need quite abit of support over the coming months.
Just to let you know a little more about myself for those that asked:
I should be able to achieve 50+ miles a week comfortably. After a shocking 1.36 in MK Half last Sunday i have applied for Vale of Pewsey Half at end of August and have started to get back into my trg. Did a 8 mile on Tue (55min) and last night did 14.1k on treadmill in 1 hour, it was a bit of a struggle but i dont think it will be long before im doing 15/16k in that time again.
My PB at 10k is currently 39.47 which i did at Oxford T&G this year, it was a slog but again i hadnt trained much so there is definately improvement to come. Im doing Yateley 10k on Wednesday, i dont think i will get a PB at this, i have entered really just to spur me on and give me an idea of where i am at.
My PB at Half is currently 1.31:46, done at Fleet this year. Again i know that with better trg i can run this faster. I am hoping to beat that at Vale of Pewsey, i dont think it will be by a great margin but its my first goal to get a half PB at this event.
My Half time during London was 1.34 and i was comfortable until 20miles, my game plan was to reach 20miles in 2.25, which left me 50 minutes to get in under 3.15,i got to 20 miles on target but unfortuantely 50mins wasnt enough, but i agree with JEJ that had i paced myself better and not relied upon chance for those last 6 i may well have made it in on target. I also go back to my previous statement about not enough long (20+ miles) runs in trg. My legs just werent up for it!
Hilly, well done on your half time and good luck this weekend and im sure your right that your times would be faster if you werent cramming in the races and tapered. Bear that in mind come next April it should give you confidence.
Im also well aware that this is going to take time, but seeing as I hadnt even started running this time last year i have a significant advantage this time round.

Oh, im also going to give up smoking this weekend. Hopefully it will take a few minutes off my races and I will live longer, what shall i do with all this extra time? More trg i expect!

I read some previous posts about a book called Advanced Marathoning, would you recommend this to someone in my position?

[Deleted User]

Sorry about the epic post!

Tmap

Advanced Marathoning (Pfitzinger/Douglas) is a good one - it gets straight to the point and has lots of good practical advice, good training plans and so on, and is fairly well written and not too long. What's more, despite its title, it's applicable across all levels of runners.

And giving up smoking should help too!

Hilly

I gave up smoking 10 years ago, Swanny, it was the best thing I ever did! The worst was starting in the first place, but never live on regrets, learn from the experience!:o)

I've got 'Advanced Marathoning' it's as Tmap says a good practical read. I like the schedules as they allow for high mileage, which a lot of marathon schedules don't.

BTW, I did at least 10 20+ milers to achieve my 3:06 at London. I hope to follow the same kind of training again, which is basically MikeG's schedule from the 'Hard Training' thread. I trust it because it worked for me last time!

[Deleted User]

For what it's worth I followed the RW sub 3 schedule and found it good - the only thing I did differently was to add a few miles onto some runs here and there so I was doing 13 miles as a midweek long run rather than the scheduled 7 or 8 milers for example. All the speed stuff I kept the same.
Did 3 miles on track on Tuesday and stretched loads - later that evening the whole of the calf felt tight! Then did 1.5 miles on track on Wednesday and then stretched loads - still feeling tight and sore today so am having a rest day. It will be a long journey back for me to the days of 60 mile weeks but I have time to build up and at the same time get rid of this injury.

Hilly

Just take it a day at a time AP and I'm sure you'll be back sooner than you think. Don't forget the cold bath treatment, it really does work and isn't so bad at this time of year:o)

Boniface Earl Jones

Race 1 of 3 this week - a 5 miler which is the least important of the 3 runs. A 30:10 got me 6th place in a mad dash to the line having run in a group of 4 for the last couple of miles. I'm happy enough with that seeing I treated the first half as a LT session (6:20m/M pace) and sped up for the second half.

Next race is a 3km SC on Saturday (aiming for sub 11), then a 10km on Sunday which I'll be treating as my marathon goal setter, maybe looking for a 36:xx or a low 37. I may even put my feet up tomorrow - think I'm still the 100 miles in my legs from last week & Tuesday's tough track session.

I've just started reading Advanced Marathoning by PP & SD - only read about 30 pages but I'm already wishing I read them before I started running! Looks like I've been doing my speed stuff too fast & not enough lactate sessions - with about 8 weeks to Berlin I may have time for a LT 'microcycle' or two which I hope will help with the sub 3 target...

[Deleted User]

Well no training for me tonight, i backed off as i felt my shins and achilles werent quite right. I expect its down to the sudden increase in mileage and trying to run at a pace i used to. Still back on it tomorrow, maybe an hour at a steady pace on the treadmill will do for me. Have set the big day for giving smoking the heave ho as Saturday, so looking forward to fireworks in the Swan household that day. Just out of interest i followed various trg plans for FLM '05 but mainly the asics 3.30 personal programme via their website. It was OK but there was no speedwork involved and i generally found myself doing more than it suggested (maybe thats why i finished in 3.17). I think i need something else what say you all?

[Deleted User]

JEJ - Good luck in the 10k, sounds like a great time to aim for, at the moment im nowhere near that level.

Hilly

Good luck JEJ. I'm sure you've got enough time to do some LT sessions.

Swanny, the book that JEJ is reading has some really good schedules and worth getting for its practical information.

[Deleted User]

No training today (again) due to hangover, plus i failed on day 1 of giving up smoking. Will give it another go tomorrow. Plus i am hoping to get in 12 miles.

Blisters

Swanny: How about trying to give up for just one day? Reassess the next morning.

Hilly

Swanny, are you using anything to help you give up like the arm patches? Might be worth a try! Keep trying, you CAN do it:o)

[Deleted User]

Keep at it, Swanny, you'll get there in the end. Just think about how much time quitting smoking could knock off your marathon PB....

Very good training week for me, in fact the first time over 60 miles running in one week ever. And did my longest run since the marathon yesterday, 18 miles, felt suprisingly good and I could have easily have carried on to 20 without losing any pace I reckon. Also makes July my second biggest training month ever (just 3 miles behind the pre-marathon peak of March), and I've done more so far this year than in the whole of last year (1500m vs 1431).

So I'm feeling fairly pleased about my training right now. Plan is for another 4 hard weeks of training, then a week tapering properly for the Welwyn Garden City 10. Really hoping to break the hour there, even if I don't make it an easy week will do me a lot of good at that stage.

Boniface Earl Jones

Still alive after 3 races in 4 days. Unfortunately none of them went too well, but that's probably to be expected after a 100 mile week & a hard day on Tues..

Race 1: 5 miles - 30:10
Race 2: 3km steeplechase - 11:42
Race 3: 10km - 37:39

Perfect conditions for the 10km, but my legs felt tired from the start so I quickly switched to 6 min miles and treated as a LT session rather than racing flat out - I feel there's a lot more to come, but (excluding the London tri) this is my last race before the Berlin marathon which will be in 8 weeks today so I'll just be focussing on milage rather than the shorter stuff.

At least the calculators equate that 10km time to somewhere between 2hr 50 and 2hr 55 for the marathon, so I'm a bit more confident about my 2hr 55 target..

Venom - sounds like quality training - booked your next race yet?

Swanny - WILL POWER!!! I don't reckon there are too many smokers getting sub 3 marathons!

Boniface Earl Jones

Sorry Venom - just read your last post properly - good luck for WGC 10!

Hilly

Well done on your training, Venom!

JEJ, all things considered you did very well and times were pretty good too. Well to me they are, but then I don't know what's a normal race pace for you. I'm sure you're going to do really well in Berlin. I understand it's a flat course too!

7 weeks to my marathon, but I can't seem to work up any excitement towards it at the moment. Hopefully, that'll change over the next few weeks.

[Deleted User]

I'm hoping not to cut it so fine next year (last year i ran FLM in 2:59:48). My times have stalled since so i've put in some hard speedwork and was rewarded today with a 36:22 10k - a PB on an undulating course.

Venom how have your times been since FLM ?