Shades Marathon Training

Big_G

PS, I meant to add, there is some discussion about Dorney Lake marathon on a Facebook group, and the 100MC are changing it to be a road event.  Do you remember that discussion we were having here a few weeks ago - well, this decision has added to that confusion, as Dorney Lake is/was a challenge event, so it shouldn't count as a road event, I didn't think.  But reading the Dorney Lake site this morning, they now have a certificate and it's worded differently - they organise a marathon, and then have a small amount of places if people want to go longer.  So I suppose in theory it's not a challenge event any more (if people enter and do the marathon), although there is still reference to challenge event on the website.  Very confusing!

Ian5

Big G-It's hard to pinpoint an exact reason but reading up on it I think it is probably from when I started doing a hill and speed session each week.Since April I was fine doing 1 work session a week and the rest easy then I changed and can only think it's that.My overall mileage hasn't changed much so not that.

1SteveMac

Ian - Good luck at physio.
Big G - Awesome seeing dolphins on your run.
Emmy - You are not a fraud, hope it gets better soon.

Was woken in the night by the wind, so when alarm went off and it was still windy I changed my mind and did a 5 mile recovery instead of my Vo2 max session, which I'll do the weekend. No point trying to do 1k reps at 5k pace in that wind!! Wheelie bins all over the place too...along with the rubbish that was in them!!

Big_G

Yeah, it's a tricky one Ian.  We've got to get the balance right that suits us.  For me, that means I avoid any really short/sharp stuff as I know that leads to potential injury for me, and if I do a session at the club I tend to do 1K or 1M intervals.  If II'm doing something on my own I may do some 45-sec reps, which I seem to be able to cope with, and as I'm on my own I can more easily ease off if I need to.  But anything much shorter than that, I end up breaking!  Maybe if you think it was the hill repeats that caused your issue, stay off those for a bit until you're fully recovered at least.  

NickW2

Ian - hope your injury clears up soon

Big G - that must have been a nice treat to see dolphins on a run!

Steve - don't blame you not doing speed work in the wind. It's one of those things isn't it, you'll either kill yourself trying to hit your pace or do the session at the right effort but then it's hard not to subconsciously be disappointed when it's inevitably slower than you hoped.

I had a good run last night, 11.7 miles altogether all at around 8 min mile pace. My left calf cramped slightly a couple of times in the last mile or so before I got home, which was a bit odd, something to keep an eye on I guess. I have a squash match tonight so hoping it hasn't taken too much out of me. Very windy overnight but not quite as bad this morning other than a few gusts. There was a big tree branch on part of my cycle path though so had to go on the road for a bit.

Big_G

Regarding Dorney, the RD has confirmed it's going to be classed as road event now, as it's officially measured and so he's changed the criteria/description of the race.  None of this bothers me in terms of the 100MC as I've easily got my road marathons already (should I ever get to 100), but I'm not really sure it's a "road event" in my own interpretation of things (it's a series of out-and-backs, effectively on a private road).  I'm down to do Dorney again already as they're great events, and the people are very friendly etc, but some of this 100MC classification stuff is odd.  

Jelly

Big G I worked in the interflora shop 1994 ish to 1999 when I had first child was too far to  commute  Part time but I still helped out from time to time. Jim was and still is my favourite boss. He sold up couple of years after I left and now it's Susan's. I have a affection for Brixham, 

Big_G

Jelly, I was working in Brixham on and off around then.  As a 15 year old I worked in Lords Fruit shop (1.5hrs each day after school, and every Saturday from 7-5:30), and then in 1994 (18yo) I had a year off before Uni to earn some cash as I was relief manager at Lords - i.e., I worked full time at Brixham shop, but covered managers at Brixham and Lords' other shops when needed.  Continued to work in Brixham in holiday time from Uni for a couple of years.  My boss at Brixham was not a nice man, but Lord himself was ok - everyone used to call him "Mr Lord" and there was kind of an air of apprehension about the place when he made an impromptu visit!

For those who don't know, Lords and Inteflora were probably about 100m away from each other on opposites sides of a road.  Small world!  Lords is now a gents hairdressers.

Big_G

It's funny looking back on all that really.  That little job meant that I got through Uni with no debt - not many students can say that these days, can they!  Also, when I left Uni, Claire and I had some savings, enough for the deposit on our first flat.

Jelly

Your not getting mixed up with Brixham Bouquet. I don't remember fruit shop on Bolton Street. We were up by carpet shop and Camera shop. You wouldn't of seen me in fruit shop back then more regular customer at that little bakery by the bus stops before they changed the carpark and the little chippy at the bottom before you hit the harbour. 

Jelly

I remember they had rats next door at camera shop and you could hear them above us, we used to tell customers they had a dog. The Head Florist found one behind the bin in the shop and legged it out of the shop to pet shop next door. I was so thankful it was my day off. lol lots of fun times. Boss used to take me to all the interflora competitions won Gold once. Boss was so chuffed as Bridgewater shop used to win everything. Sitting in the back of the little rascal van on a wicker conservatory chair surrounded by flowers, hight of health and safety. 

Big_G

Jelly, I think we're talking about the same street.  Lords was on Bolton Street, opposite Boots chemist which is now Wetherspoons.  So Lords was closer to Bolton Cross than your florist was.

Jelly

Yes I remember now. I think I was thinking of Stokes. 

SHADES

Big G - I suppose the best outcome from Amazon is that they may give you a token gift card.  As it wasn't damage by a vehicle the claim would need to be on the driver's (if he's self employed) PL insurance, and the company's PL if he's not self employed.   Without a witness they'll probably ignore all claims.

I classify my marathons and always have done so by the surface I run on, so Dorney Lake is road to me and is recorded as such.  Half of the time the 100MC had the races in the wrong classification anyway, they had bona fide road marathons listed as trail.   It doesn't matter for you does it?  But I expect the race organisers have done it so that GFA times will count in future for marathons as they'll have now had the course measured for the marathon. 

Ian - that is the biggest danger with speedwork in that we are more likely to get injured

Steve - I'm not surprised you changed this morning's session, trying to do a VO2 session in that wind and hurdling a few wheelie bins would be challenging.  

Nick - that's a decent mid week distance, hope the calf niggle goes away.

Brilliant Pilates session, tough on the legs especially the hamstrings but enjoyed it

Big_G

Shades, no it doesn't matter to me in terms of 100MC if I ever get there, because I've done the required number of road marathons anyway.

SHADES

Big G - when I did Dorney lake one runner ran a GFA time, that was his target.   Of course thanks to Ian's email to VLM we now know that time wouldn't have been eligible so I'm sure that's why Dorney Lake have had the course measured, as it's a flat course it will attract those wanting to try and get a GFA time.

Ian5

Physio attended.he got me to run for a bit and he's going to analyse it and see if how I'm running is causing issues,he noticed I'm landing on the outside which won't help.gave me some massage on it,pretty painful but will get harder he said   
As for the race he didn't advise against it,asked what training I'd done etc and said I could do it,just be aware it may put me back a bit and advised me to run a bit slower than I'd targeted and see how it feels.as I hadn't decided what pace to run at that's easy enough.Said to I've after or walk in the sea for a bit so I'll see how it reacts over the next day or 2.

NickW2

Shades - you say midweek distance but I am planning to do most of my long runs midweek. Planning to make it 13 for the next 3 wednesdays. Possibly with a 4 mile jog in the morning as well, just because I think that makes the logistics work more easily.

Right I have written myself a rough training plan for MK marathon. 16 week plan starting with this week:

3 weeks of 1 fast run 5-6 miles, 1 long run 11-13 miles.
1 cutback week
2 weeks of 1 fast run 8 miles, 1 long run 15-17 miles. Possibly a HM or a XC race which would replace one of the runs.
1 cutback week
2 weeks of 1 fast run 8 miles, 1 long run 18-20 miles with some sections either fast or MP.
1 cutback week
3 weeks 1 fast run 8 miles, 1 long run 15-20 miles (probably 2x 20s and 1x 15) with some fast or MP
3 week taper with all MP or easy running

The aim would be to also fit in a 10k easy run (normally at the weekend with the buggy) and the odd 5k easy run at lunchtimes from work. Also will be doing approx 2.5 hrs easy cycling and 1 squash match per week. I'm unlikely to average more than 3 days a week running though.

Paces I try to run off perceived effort rather than pace. Easy/long is conversational pace, fast is "comfortably hard", MP is a bit above easy but not really feeling like you're working hard.

SHADES

Nick - I meant that with working and other stuff it's hard to do a longer run on a day that is busy.   It's not only getting the miles done, but a longer run means eating later and then having to delay going to bed and not being able to rehydrate fully means often being more tired the following day.

That's a good plan for you and I suspect maybe more miles than you've done before for your previous marathons?

Ian - I think that's promising news on your achilles.    Just as well you're going to GC although I guess he wouldn't have recommend a paddle in the sea if you were running at the Wirral this weekend.   Yes, you can expect it to flare up a bit after the race, but that doesn't necessarily mean it would set you back any considerable healing time.   When you are running your marathon avoid going up and down onto any kerbs and any uneven surfaces, you want to run easy and well balanced on as smooth a surface as you can, and no falling over of course   

Ian5

Shades-I took it as quite promising,hopefully means I can keep running to keep my basic fitness up,it's either ice or sea and a bucket of ice mightn't be easy to find.It looks a flat course which will be ideal with this injury.I had a good message exchange with TRex as I'd seen he had struggled with achilles but kept running.

steven renton

Cal- great to see you doing so good mileage, hopefully that's you over all  the difficulties yu have had recently.

Ian- sounds like so positive news on your injury. Stick to a easy pace in GC and see how you feel after all you have put in some great mileage up till your injury.

8 miles today managed to get pacing right for a change. Thankfully my area didn't suffer much snowfall yesterday however it was bitterly cold and the council in their wisdom cleared some paths and left others covered in hard snow and ice which made the run quite testing. I was running thinking why clear a stretch of pathway that last's  for about 1.5 miles halfway then just stop then continue clearing a couple of hundred metres later. Think I spent most of my run thinking how daft this was least it made time fly by.

SHADES

Ian - I know T-Rex and he has been doing some quite long ultras over the last few years, mostly off road too, and 'managed' his achilles well.

I would choose the sea, a paddle after a race is lovely for the feet and legs, you can have an ice cream too. 

steven - I think you could run the length of the country trying to work out how our councils' logic works, or not, as the case may be. 

Cal Jones

Great running, everyone. Rest day for me. I had intended to go to the early Vinyasa class but the wind woke me up last night and I couldn't get back to sleep for a couple of hours, which meant I ended up sleeping until 8am. I did go to Hot Inferno Pilates, though. It really doesn't seem to get any easier.

After some advice here. My bestie is taking his parents to Prague and Vienna in the Spring and included me in his plan (it was his Christmas present to me). It's only four days including travel, but it is three weekends away from Manchester. Now, most plans have you doing your longest run at this point. Whilst I could do it just before or just after, I'd rather keep it to a weekend since any long run would involve crossing several main roads and I really hate stopping for traffic.

So, should I aim for a 20 four weeks out, or can I get away with one two weeks out and still recover?

SHADES

Cal - it depends on your recovery from a 20 mile run, if you are more comfortable doing the 20 four weeks out then do that.   At least it's done then and not preying on your mind when you come back from your trip.

Was expecting ice this morning but luckily no ice on roads or pavements even after the rain, headed Big G's way as thought there would be less chance of ice if I was heading towards the coast.  Had a really enjoyable run.

I did have to de-ice the windscreen of my car though.

Looks like Plym Trail runners are blessed with a much warmer forecast now for tomorrow, enjoy your carbo loading 

Big_G

I had a lovely run as well Shades - just 4-miles, but it was really nice.  Sunny, although quite cold when I was out.

If I feel like this tomorrow, I'm definitely going to travel down to Plym Trail.  Not concerned with time at all, but I mustn't go off too quickly down that hill for the first lap - I've promised myself that at least, as I don't want to then turnaround and think "oh...I've got run back up that now!".

Cal, enjoy Prague and Vienna.  They're both lovely cities.  As you want to stick to a weekend, I think I'd be tempted to do it 4 weeks out, so it's done and then you can enjoy the taper  

Keith/Jelly, hopeful catch up with you tomorrow.  We'll have to try and get a pic for the thread  

Ian5

Cal-personally I'd do it 4 weeks out.
Good luck to the Plym guys tomorrow.
Just at the airport ready to fly,still not sure how to set out Sunday.Would people suggest my usual long run pace and see how it feels?

SHADES

Ian - I've just emailed you but not about pace.   Yes, start at long run pace and just run what is comfortable for you.  You might feel good and want to speed up a bit, just take each mile as it comes, running in a relaxed manner is what is best for that injury.

Before the race, avoid too much time on your feet tomorrow, avoid lots of steps and no flip flops, wear trainers if you can.



Big G - glad you're feeling good again, thought I might have seen you at Lidl's buying caramel wafers  

I expect Keith is eating his way down from Cumbria to Devon 

NickW2

Shades - I think it's comparable to what I've done for my other marathons. I just checked the 16 weeks prior to Manchester last year and it's very similar mileage. Which isn't that surprising I suppose as it's loosely based on the same plan! I think I did marginally less for London the year before but not hugely different.

The difference to Manchester is that I'm starting from a better base, and I'll be doing more cycling but less squash (I was normally playing twice a week then but once a week now).

Cal - I had a similar dilemma when I ran my first marathon - I went skiiing for a long weekend 3 weeks out. And actually 4 weeks out I raced a half marathon so my last 20 miler was 5 weeks out. When I got back from skiing I did a 15 miler 2 weeks out which I think was about right. I remember at the time I was thinking of going longer to compensate but someone on here convinced me to only do 15 and in hindsight it was definitely the right choice. In summary I think if you get a few good long runs in then the benefit stays with you for quite a while so I wouldn't worry too much about specifically when your last 20 miler is.

Cal Jones

Thanks for the advice. I just had a look at last year's runs and my final 20 when a month before Manchester. I'd meant to do another but got a slight cold so it never happened. Didn't seem to harm me during the race.

Best of luck to the Plymers!

Cold and frosty here but a beautiful blue sky this morning. I should have enjoyed my recovery run (4 miles) but can't really say that I did. Had a little niggle on the inside of my right ankle (I have had this before so I'm not worried) and my lower back was a bit grouchy too. I had a very good stretch when I got home.
I'm planning to do some parkrun tourism tomorrow as my local is much too crowded. However, it looks like rain this weekend - and not light rain either. I can't say I'm looking forward to at wet 15 miler on Sunday.

Big_G

Ian, yes that pace is what I would aim to do to start with, if the injury was okay.  Try and forget about a PB and just try and enjoy it.  Your training is there - once you get recovered from this injury you'll be able to work towards the time you want.

Shades, I did go to Lidl to get some yesterday.  The lady on the till said "Ohh, I like those too", and then explained how she balances them on her cup of tea/coffee, just like I do.  The two people behind me in the queue got involved with the conversation, and I think they may be buying them in their next shop

Shades, regarding coffee, I saw this the other day which does have some cracking coffee shops in there.  One of these is the one I went to in Plymouth the other day, and I know the two in Dartington are very nice.  I'm trying the Torquay one later today, as I have a mid-afternoon meeting there so I'll pop in there for a coffee first.
http://www.devonlife.co.uk/food-drink/where-to-enjoy-coffee-in-devon-17-of-the-best-places-to-go-1-5281638

Chair, the club secretary and I have been looking at Lanza options.  We've agreed that we'll each look for one self catering option and one all inclusive option, get together next week and then choose which options to go for out of the 6.  Just by chance, Chair and I found the same place (from different websites) for self catering so I think that may be telling us something.  £210 self catering....for a week(!), including flights, transfers, 800m from the beach, a clean and tidy place that gets good reviews.  This is from Bristol, so not too bad.  They do charge £60 if you want to put a case in the hold, but if I go I expect I'll just cram my stuff into hand luggage.