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Shades Marathon Training
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Hope you don't mind me joining in with you all.
Little bit of background on me, I used to run fairly regularly about 10 years or so ago. Mainly 10k's with a couple of half marathons thrown in. Training at that stage was very unscientific and made the usual mistakes of just going out to run and thrashing myself most days! (I have since learnt my lesson!)
Work and then married life/kids got in the way for a long while (not really an excuse, more my own lack of motivation) but end of 2017 I decided to get back into running and signed up for Brighton marathon in 2018. Jan 1st was the first day of proper training and read up on what paces I should actually be training at rather than just running randomly. 4 months later, completed Brighton marathon in 3:53 which I was very pleased with considering I had gone from zero to that in just over 4 months.
I can definitely relate to Cal's/Big G's/1SteveMac about slower training paces. That's been the light bulb moment for me. Understanding why you should train at a slower pace and how that enables you to run faster is so important I think.
Most recent race for me was Paris Marathon this year. Training went well, did about 150 miles more in training than for Brighton which I think definitely paid dividends as I took 20 minutes off my time! 3:32:15. I was hoping for something about 3:40 pace so was chuffed with what I ended up with.
Anyway, that's enough about me. I'll try my best to post updates and keep up to date.
Then hopefully run London next April. I've applied for the ballot about 10 times over the years and not got in so hoping for more luck this year!
Reading back, sorry to hear about the shoulder injury. Hope it's feeling a bit better today.
Cal-Similar to my club by sounds of it,stopped going as the speed was too fast for my Achilles to cope with.
Steve-Good luck with parkrun,are you doing one you've done previously to give you a good idea?
http://eprints.leedsbeckett.ac.uk/5885/
Some of the definitions they use
Short Intervals= between 200 and 1,000 m long and from 95 to 100% of HRmax
Long Intervals = between 1,000 and 2,000 m long and from 92 to 95% of HRmax
Tempo = between 45 and 70 minutes in duration or running intervals from 1,000 to 5,000 m and from 82 to 92% of HRmax
Spoilers
Volume is the biggest predictor of performance - easy runs have the highest correlation (other than volume) mostly because they contribute to volume without injuring the runner.
Webby - you are very welcome to the thread.
That's a significant marathon PB you did at Paris. The way the probability of a ballot place at London is going I think a GFA place is a better chance for you.
I've put your Berlin marathon on our marathon list although it won't show for a while as I haven't published any races after the end of May yet. Berlin is a good course for your next PB attempt, it was a bit crowded for me but nice course and good wide roads with good road surface.
JGav - thanks, very interesting. I was hesitant at first about reading it when I saw the intervals were at 92%+, the thought of running that hard in training, eek.
If I'm pushing in short intervals I do hit that and long intervals I definitely get there. My threshold runs are 175 - 180 and easy runs I target 150-155.
Big G - Hopefully we can say Hi to each other in Berlin, looks a nice course. Have heard good things.
Shades - thanks for the welcome. I think you may well be right about the GFA over ballot, the GFA times for London scare me at the moment though. 3:05 for my age group currently (I'm 37) which I am a fair way off yet. My current thought process is just to get consistent training in over the next few years, target 2 marathons a year and see how close to 3 hours I can get. Would love to break 3 hours one day but that's not an easy thing to do even if life/training permits. Got to aim high though!
JGav - I've read a few books around training (P&D Advanced Marathoning was a good one) and a common theme is increased mileage and a large proportion at a slower pace is a big factor in improvement. Reduced level of injuries and physiological changes that type of running helps to promote.
From a marathon training point of view, I think one way for most of us to see improvements is to increase the weekly mileage consistently, over time, with easy-paced milage. One very simple plan I've seen on here in the past was:
- run 40 miles a week
- run all these miles easy, except race a parkrun once a week
- keep doing this until you stop seeing improvements in your parkrun time
- once you've stopped seeing improvements, increase the weekly mileage to 50 and do the same easy mileage whilst racing a parkrun once a week
- continue with increasing the weekly mileage and then start introducing more structured sessions once you haven't got the time in your life to do more weekly mileage.
The simplicity of this plan really appeals to me!
I have to say though, I do really enjoy 6x1m or 6x1k session with my club! It's a favourite session of mine, from an enjoyment point of view but I don't do them that regularly.
The 40 mile a week plan you mention is simple as you say but I'm sure also effective. Not far off what I've been doing really. 4-5 runs a week. 2-3 of them easy runs, 1 tempo or speed session and then a long run (which is also mostly done at an easy pace except for a few with MP blocks in).
I'm convinced most of my gains have been simply due to be able to get consistent runs in and building up the mileage with easy paced runs.
Lots of easy paced running does mean you have to really trust the process a lot and be confident that on race day you can sustain a much higher pace for the duration.
Got a local 10k tomorrow, hoping to set a new PB if all goes well.
Webby - you're still very early in your marathon career so a lot of PB's ahead of you yet. Good luck at the 10k and hope you get that PB.
Big G - that's a lovely simple training plan.
Cal - hope the post Pilates quads are OK today.
Rest day for me, yes another one, marathon tomorrow.
To celebrate Somerset Day we have gone crazy on some scrumpy and for 1 day only our entry fees are being reduced.
On the 11th May the Yeovil Marathon is £25 and the Heron Half is £15. Any other discount is not included and fee is subject to Full on Sport processing fee.
Enter here https://ytrrc.fullonsport.com/event/search
Rickmansworth takes place in a lovely location with big lakes full of water fowl. On the minus side, it is a busy one (over 500 today) and there was a lot of congestion to start with so I probably wasted some energy trying to get around people. My legs are still sore, so I wasn't expecting another sub-25 but I wanted to get under 26, which I did (officially 25:20 - I made it 25:27 on my Garmin but I didn't press stop right away) but it was hard work. Achilles and left hammy are both a bit niggly. I'm thinking a PB tomorrow is unlikely but I guess I'll see how I feel on the day.
I went and walked around the parkrun this morning again, plus the 1.5 miles there and back. It was nice weather for running this morning, but I still have to make do with walking for now.
I've been thinking about next week's Windermere Marathon and although the injury is improving, I feel that a marathon next weekend is still unlikely. I had refundable accommodation booked, but to get a refund I have to cancel today, so I've just cancelled it. That's the 7th marathon DNS I've had since the injury
As it stands, I've also got one booked in mid-June (4.5 weeks away), which is a lapped event on tarmac. I hope to be able to run/walk around that and meet the cutoffs (not worried at all about a decent time at that one), but I'll just have to play it by ear and decide nearer the time depending on how the inquiry goes.
On the positive though, I haven't had a "bad" day with the pain for a few days now, and I've also dramatically reduced the drugs. Initially I was on 60g of co-codamil four times a day, but for the last two days I've only taken 15g, four times a day. There's massive improvement, no doubt of that, but I still can't run. What this calcification means long term, I also don't know....I suppose I've had it for a while, but didn't know about it.
Big G - best to cancel your Windermere accommodation, if you feel fit enough to go next week you can always hunt down a last minute deal. I've been following the 10 in 10 runners, they're on day 2 today. I do want to go back there just to do the single marathon as it's one of my favourite courses.
Shame about the lost races but I think you could catch up quite easily number wise if you want to get back to your original target date for your 100th. There are so many multi day events now. You
might even consider a 10 in 10, there's also a 20 in 20 next year.
That's a dramatic reduction in pain meds good progress.
I'm just watching the Tour of Yorkshire highlights now which I'd recorded. Realised I need to catch up quickly as Giro D'Italia starts today, I expect you've already seen that highlights are on Quest. I'm struggling to get used to the new kit colours.
Big G - good points about regular racing to track improvements. Getting pacing right on the day is definitely an art. Good to hear you have been able to reduce the painkillers for the injury. Shows it must be improving to some degree. Is it 100 marathons you are progressing toward? That's immense, how long has it taken you to get to your current number?
10k race for me today went very well. Very flat course in Stratford around the Olympic (London/West Ham) Stadium and park. Weather was perfect as well, cloudy but mild with little wind. I was hoping for something 45 minutes or under, previous PB was back in January at 47:16.
Felt good for the first half averaging 7 minute miles and managed to slightly better that for the second half to come in at 42:41 for a 4.5 minute PB. Very pleased.
Webby - well done on the PB. That's a significant chunk off! Yeah it’s 62 marathons, with a goal of getting into the 100 Marathon Club. Shades has done well over 300 and it’s - at least partly - her fault that I find myself on this journey
I did my first marathon, London, as a bucket list type of thing in 2010. Undertrained, making lots of mistakes and therefore hated most of it, finishing in a time 5:15. It took me a while to do my second marathon and eventually I got to 7 in total and chipped my time down to sub-4 in early 2017. But then I did London again, also in 2017, and got the bug, doing 20 marathons that year. I did 31 last year, including my current 3:19 PB along the way, and was hoping for a similar number this year. This injury has put paid to that though, which is annoying as it’s not even a running injury!! Last year was a good year in some ways, but at times I did struggle to get a balance between ticking over the number of events and doing reasonable times which was something I was hoping to work on a bit this year.
Big G - I didn't realise you'd now got Eurosport again, just as well with all this time on your hands. Enjoy the Giro
Have stuck my head out the window and another chilly morning but conditions look perfect for running. Plym Trail course is sheltered course anyway. I'm trying to set myself a target time for each race that I'm doing in the build up to DD. I know for DD I'll have to try and stick to a pace schedule to make the cut offs and by practising the discipline in my earlier races I'm hoping that it will make me stronger mentally and physically at DD. I missed last week's target by 3 minutes partly as I just lost it on the final couple of miles on the off road bit which I hate, but was happy with my 2nd best time there. Today's target is to aim for a course best, we'll see.
Weather forecast suggested it wouldn't be too warm (12 to 14 degrees) but I guess that temperature is in the shade, because it was pretty bloody warm.
The race starts in Crawley, on a sports field, and there was a really good events village with lots of BA people in uniform. I was there early so I chilled for a bit, put my Vapors on and got into my allocated pen. Colin Jackson and Dina Asher-Smith were there, so that was pretty cool (I had a big crush on Colin when I was young!)
Once we got through the start, I felt OK. Shoes were nice and bouncy and I did an 8:27 opening mile, which was under PB pace. The initial part was in town - lots of roads and roundabouts. Not terribly interesting but a lot of races aren't.
Next mile was 8:31, so still good. Then I hit mile 3 with the water station and ran 8:41 (2 seconds over PB pace but decent enough given I got hampered a bit going for a bottle).
We then made our way into the countryside and past the airport (which we could hear more than see). I ran 8:36/8:41/8:41. This was starting to feel a little bit tough - more so than the Olympic Half or Hampton Court. Not good.
I decided at that point that trying to maintain that pace was going to be tough and would probably end up with a death march, like Maidenhead, which is not what I needed two weeks out from a marathon. I eased off slightly and started running just under 9 minute miles. It was starting to feel very warm.
Then we got to mile 8 which I knew (from looking at the profile) contained a hill. Turns out it was quite a steep hill. I slowed a lot and even the downhill right after couldn't help me get any faster than 9:22. By this point I was in a "just get it done" frame of mind. I tried smiling at people and high-fiving kids in the hope that I could Kipchoge my way out of the funk, but it wasn't really working. Feet were starting to feel sore and I was breathing harder than I should. I'm not allergic to anything but I am wondering if that was down to pollen.
I managed to pull out an 8:56 but then slowed and did a 9:10 and a 9:09. When the finish came, it wasn't that obvious (small inflatable arch - no mention of finish on it) so I didn't even pull off a finishing surge.
My chip time was 1:57:06 - rather underwhelming but at least it's good to know I can have a relatively poor run and still finish under 2 hours.
I am not too disappointed as I knew I wasn't feeling at my best this week, but I am a bit concerned about how I will deal with a warm marathon in Liverpool. I seem to do my best over longer distances when the temperature is in single digits.
As for the shoes, they are nice and bouncy but they are as hard on my feet as the Zoom Flys. I think it's down to the carbon plate. So now I have to decide if I want to risk them at Liverpool or if I go with my Epic Reacts (which have quite a lot of miles on them already).
Anyway, a nicely organised race, good medal and shirt. Would I do it again? Probably not - wrong time of year, really, and it's a lot of running along country lanes is pleasant in its own way, but which I find quite boring.
It was East Allington 10k today, ran in memory of Claire. This was the 5th running of the event, of which there is also a 3k fun run for the kids - 177 kids took part in this, which is a record, so that was great to see. The trend for the 10k numbers has been falling since the event started and there were about 45 in the 10k today. The school are keen to keep the event going but I wonder if they may focus solely on the 3k soon. One problem they have is parking - it’s a very small village and in good weather the farmer lets the school use his field, but in bad weather he doesn’t allow it. It was good weather today but I think parking is possibly what puts some off. Plus there are other local events this weekend, but it’s virtually impossible choosing a free weekend in the race calendar.
Still, it was a nice morning out, and I did my customary roles of starting the events as well as giving out the prizes. There was a bouncy castle and face painting for the kids, and loads of cake plus burgers etc, so it was a great atmosphere down there. Shame I couldn’t run it this year but glad I went down to see the event.
I've met Colin Jackson, he used to support Anglesey Marathon and I did my 200th there so he came over and had a chat with me.
Not a good run for me either today, ended up with a course worst 5:09, but in all fairness the 3 times I've run this before I've had really good runs there. It is a tough course, I think Big G will agree with that. Because of the tunnel and not able to accurately pace my miles I just couldn't seem to get into a good rhythm. At 15 miles I had a pain in my right calf that really started to trouble me, I'm on the long gentle downhill at this point and there's no respite from that downhill until about 19+ miles so I had to slow down. When the course levelled out to a flat section my calf started to ease off and by the time I reached the final turnaround the pain had gone completely, but by this time my race plan had gone out of the window so I eased off and just did a steady but easier pace up the last long drag to the finish. Weather was perfect for me, most of the course is shaded so was cool with low humidity, in the tunnel it was bloody freezing and in the sun it was about 17/18 degrees which is fine for me.
Big G - good to hear the school still want to continue to hold Claire's race, it is tricky getting a date that doesn't clash, it was Ivybridge 10k last night which wouldn't have helped. I will do it next year.
At Plym Trail, Davey had 7 DNS's yesterday and a very small field today too, not a Trotter vest in sight today! I think there were only 20 entered for the marathon today and I'm sure a couple didn't turn up and then some DNF'd too. But Davey had spoken to the 100MC club and they said if they didn't have 15 finishers it would be OK as long as he had 15 starters, after all he couldn't be responsible for DNF's. Of course that doesn't worry me as I don't need to follow 100MC rules anymore, but for others such as you it's important.
Regarding the East Allington 10k, the school liaised with me to set a date but with my other races I had planned (since DNS'd, obviously!) this was the weekend that suited us, even with other local races such as Ivybridge. I know the school are very pleased with the fun run numbers and I think in a way they are seeing that as their priority anyway. It's a very small school (less than 100 kids) so to have 177 is a good turn out for that.
Good friends of mine and Claire's came down with their two kids, and the Mum ran the 3k with their oldest, which was nice to see. She's a non-runner but enjoyed it and the daughter loved her medal etc. I think they may now end up going to Junior parkrun on the occasional Sunday, as they live less then half a mile away from one.
My calf feels fine now, I think it's running the gentle downhill without any change in cadence that does it, first time I ran this race both calves were sore at 5 miles, again after the long downhill.
I don't do doubles now but it would be a tough double. I take it you might not do that double again
As long as the school are happy with the way the event went that's the main thing, that is a good turnout for a small school.