Shades Marathon Training

Big_G

I'll have a think about it Shades.  I've never ran a fast time in terms of my best time there is about 3:45, but yes last year Day 2 was bad weather.  I do struggle on that uphill section from the turn around point - constant long gradients, albeit not steep, is definitely a weakness of mine.  I was talking to myself, telling myself to dig in, from about 4-miles in on Day 2 last year which was a bad sign too!!  If I run well at my come back marathon (by running well I mean more-or-less pain free and being fairly consistent with the pace) I'll have more of a think about what to do at Plym Trail.

SHADES

Big G - on the day you had a terrible run there last year I did my 2nd best time of 2018, but that was when I was doing my high mileage training, that particular week I ran 70 miles over 6 days.   I did have a good run and think I would struggle to run there so well again.   But I was highly motivated doing that high mileage and I think that's why I ran well.
The last uphill stretch is tough and because it's fairly lonely/isolated it's very easy to lose motivation to push to the finish line.

I wouldn't worry too much about times at Plym Trail, do your best on Day 1 and let Day 2 take care of itself,   just makes sure you have plenty to eat 

Big_G

I noticed there is a trail event this weekend, from Countisbury to Minehead across the SWCP.  It's £15 including a bus to the start and refreshments at the end.  It's called Seaview 17, although it's 21 miles and I only found out about it yesterday but it's sold out now.  I'm on the waiting list although I'm not expecting I'll get a place at this late stage, but it would have been a good way to tick off another section of the path.  Maybe next year.

http://mineheadrunningclub.co.uk/seaview_17.html

Cal Jones

I'm off to Pilates myself today. We're using bands too (well, some of the instructors are - there are different levels of training and only the instructors with level 2 training can use the bands and weights. Anyway...)

I did 8 miles this morning, starting at 5.30am. It was noticeably warmer than yesterday and a lot more humid. I managed fine without water for yesterday's run (10 miles) but was thirsty before three miles today. I gave myself the option to sack it off at 6 miles but I didn't really want to so I just persisted. It felt harder than yesterday, especially the last couple of miles, but when I checked the Garmin data I actually averaged around 10 min/mi.

I did weigh myself when I got back and found I'd lost 2lbs (which I'd think is quite a lot for an  8 mile/1 hr 20 run) so I made sure I drank that back on again.

It's really warm here - over 30 yesterday so it was over 28 in my flat and only dropped 1 degree overnight.  My flat will definitely be up to 30 or more tomorrow. Ugh.

SHADES

Big G - I've heard of the Seaview race, it's over Exmoor isn't it?  I believe a very tough course.   There might well be a few DNS's so you might get a place.

Cal - we often use the long resistance bands in Pilates but this was my first class with the small loop bands. I've dug out my loop band, in our goody bags from Frankfurt, and will start using it at home now I know a few exercises to do.   The clams we did yesterday to the point of extreme pain is responsible for my sore glutes today.  

Maybe a bit more pre run fluids, if you were thirsty at 3 miles.   I have to make myself drink water before my morning run, I don't have the same trouble with the coffee though. 

It's warm enough down here, don't envy you those temperatures.

Circuits was good, we didn't go outside as he still hasn't had a chance to clear it with his boss and anyway the grass was wet from last night's rain.   Very hot and sweaty in circuits, we were in the hall that has minimal aircon.   Went to Lidl's for my food shop and nice and cool to walk around the store.

1SteveMac

Up early for a 14 mile run today, felt fresher outside than yesterday, but still very warm. First half averaging 9:xx and second half around 8:30 ish.

SHADES

Steve - that must be the furthest pre breakfast distance for you.    It's not difficult getting up early at this time of year, which helps.

SHADES

Big_G

Shades, yes, I think it is quite a tough section and looking at the previous results, and basing on my recent 21-miler on a different section of the path, I'd be towards the back I think!  They're stressing it's a run and not a race, but some of the times are quite quick - winner last year was under 2hrs30mins, which I'd say is is quick on that terrain.  It's a bargain though for £15 including the bus.

I got another 10-miles in this morning, on the same route as yesterday but this time on a bit of a whim and as I was feeling good I did quicker miles for miles 2, 4, 6 and 8.  It's an undulating/flat course and those splits were 8:06, 7:32, 7:13 and 7:45.  I expect I'll do a 3 or 4-miler at an easy pace tomorrow AM before the 10k tomorrow evening.

Cal Jones

Shades, I had a pint of water before I went out (as well as coffee) but I guess sleeping in 28 degrees didn't help. It'll be worse the next two nights.

1SteveMac

Shades - My longest before work yes...although might have snuck in a 15 miler once or twice while ultra training. Yeah love the light early mornings.

SHADES

Steve- I noticed this week that it's starting to get darker in the mornings already 

Cal - I have a pint of water too pre run plus a coffee, 2 coffees on the days when I have more time.  But in this hot and humid weather I guess we probably need twice the amount of water.

Big G - that's a good training run today.

They are fast times for the leaders in that event.  Maybe there's some very speedy ultra or off road marathon runners that use it for training.  

Ian5

Steve-Great early morning running.
Hot 7 miles after work,just took it easy with the heat and legs still not 100%

Big_G

Shades, yes, I looked at the profile as it's still a very hilly 21 miles so it's not easy.  They've provided a GPX file which says it's 4000ft of gain and and around 5000ft of descent (so net down hill) so sub-2:30 on that, with the narrow paths, rocks, tree roots etc is some going.  I've got a place though, so I'm doing it.  I won't be "racing" it as such, but will use it as a bit of fun and to tick off another section of the SWCP.  I was having a look around for other events on the coast path and this one is very, very affordable compared to others out there!  PureTrail and even WSR want getting on for three times the price that I'm paying, and that doesn't include transport.  Okay I know this one isn't a marathon and there's no medal etc, but I'm not bothered about that on this occasion.  I'm just using it as a training run really.  OH is working and I'm at a loose end so I'm pleased I got a place.

I was looking at last July's mileage and I did a total of 183 miles including two marathons.  This July, and coming back from injury, I'm currently on 188 miles with no marathons, so with 6 days to go and the 21-miler on the weekend I should go a fair bit over last July's total.  The speed isn't there yet but I'm pleased with the mileage since the injury because as soon as I was able to run relatively pain free, I was able to get some reasonable mileage in, I think probably helped by my reasonable weight when I started back.  If I can keep the regular 50 mile weeks going up to a couple of weeks before Berlin, I'll be pleased.

In terms of the pain, it's still there on occasion so I still can't do what I want/need to do around the house!  I'm still doing the physio etc, but I wonder if it's going to take a few more weeks (maybe even months) yet until it's totally back to how it should be.  In that regard, I did see a video of me from Frome Half and my running style was even worse than usual.  I don't remember being in any pain as such during the race, but my shoulders weren't relaxed at all and I wasn't running freely.

SHADES

Ian - I take it you've recovered well from Sunday?   Has the niggle/pain gone from the outside of your calf?

Big G - great that you got a place for the Seaview race.   Will be a lovely social way to run that part of the SWCP.   Are there drink stations?

Yes, I wonder why some of the trail events charge such a lot for entries.  Of course most are commercial enterprises so charge as much as they can get away with.   Best races are those organised by a running club. 
Your speed is coming back and you'll soon be back to full racing fitness and you're building nicely for Berlin/Loch Ness

I hate to tell you, but a lady in my Yogalates class still has discomfort from her rotator cuff injury over a year later and she says that's expected but it is gradually getting less often.


I'm going to enter Frome 2020 as I see they've got a £20 early bird offer for this year's entrants.   Does say refundable so I might enter as I doubt I'll be doing a marathon that weekend next year.   There is a marathon in Ireland that I want to do and it's about the same time but I won't have the budget for that one yet, all my 'away trip' marathons are decided on for next year.


6 miles for me this morning.   When I went out it was lovely and fresh with a cool breeze and I was so enjoying that, unfortunately that only lasted for half a mile and when I turned into the next road back to the hot and humid weather.   There were patches of cooler weather on my run but not many.

Big_G

Shades, yes there are three check points which have water, and then refreshments at the finish. Tea and coffee at the start as well. I asked about the check points and if there are cut offs and he said there aren’t any and that it’s all quite relaxed.

I’ve entered Frome Half as well as like you say they said we can defer or get a refund if we need to.

I did 3 miles easy paced this morning and it was warming up already!

Ian5

Big G-Net downhill of 1000ft,you should be flying  Good luck with it,that's great mileage for a month,just about my highest ever.
Shades-It's nearly gone,just feel it when I stretch slightly and small aches in the legs but overall nearly better now.
Off for 8 miles soon,very sticky out but can't run tomorrow so need to fit it in today.

SHADES

Big G - that's good re the drink stations, so those that don't want to carry water don't need to.

I feel that I need to go and do Frome, unfinished business having only managed a Sunday morning drive of 140 miles  

Ian - glad the recovery is going well and niggle and DOMS have nearly gone.   Hope it's not too hot wil you.


Cal  - hope you're OK in this awful heat.

Just back from Pilates, warm out there but nothing like the temperatures in other parts of the country.  

Ian5

Shades-Think were about 27 now so nowhere near the levels in the south east but still very warm to run in.Felt nice though as the legs are nearly there,hopefully get some decent miles again from next week but will just be easy for another week or so.

1SteveMac

Big G - That's big mileage! Good that you got a place.

Shades - Yes, I did go out one day and think it looked quite dark!! I don't want to go back to headtorch runs yet!!

8 miles with strides today, legs felt heavy but got it done.

Big_G

Kingsbridge 10k for me this evening, which started at 7:30pm, so fortunately not in the heat of the day.  I did about a mile, very gentle warmup and I was sweating already on the start line though!

It's quite a steep uphill at the start, and then from about 2.5 miles it levels off for a couple of miles, before a downhill finish, with one more hill to get over on the way (nearly 800ft of ascent for the race, according to Strava).  It was a Club Champs race this year so there was a decent turnout of Trotters for a Thursday night - I think around 25 were there.  JW was there again, and I did go past her in the first few hundred metres and to be honest didn't really think too much of it on this occasion, except with about half a mile to go she went past me and I could tell that she had put a bit of a spurt in to try and stay ahead.  She pulled ahead a bit, but I managed to keep with her and I pipped her on the line - I wouldn't be surprised if we get given the same finish time as she was right on my shoulder.

As for my time, I wasn't really feeling it and did struggle a bit today - at home before the race I wasn't really sure if racing was really what I wanted to do this evening!  I was dripping wet at the end and literally looked like I'd been swimming, but I finished in 48:46 on my watch, which is about 20-secs slower than last year.  So not a bad evening out and it's another Club Champs race ticked off for me, which was the motivation I needed to get me out the door.

I think I'll probably do 3 or 4 miles tomorrow (Friday) and then probably just an easy parkrun Saturday, before the coast path event on Sunday.  The TdF is heating up quite nicely with two crucial stages Friday and Saturday so if I can I'll settle down and watch those live.

SHADES

Ian - 27 is about what we had yesterday down here, very humid though.   Should be better running conditions next week when you're increasing the mileage.

Big G -that's a good result at Kingsbridge.   I ran it last year and I just looked at my stats and it was 20/22 degrees, I expect it was warmer than that last night and probably more humid so 20 secs slower is a good performance.   Is it a new course?  I've got the elevation as 550ft, I don't use Garmin Connect so I either got that from the race website/info or possibly from you!

I usually stick to the TdeF highlights programme but like you I think I'll settle down today and watch the whole stage as it's so exciting, G and/or Pinot have to attack if they have any chance of winning.


9 miles for me this morning, very humid, sweat was pouring off me.  I did drink an extra 2 glasses of water, so had 4 glasses of water and 2 coffees pre run and didn't feel thirsty even when I finished.   I was dreading going to bed last night, this weather is awful for sleeping but amazingly I had a really good night's sleep, probably because the 2 previous nights I slept really badly and I was so tired yesterday.   Last night was definitely the warmest night, temp in my flat the same this morning as it was yesterday afternoon.
Hopefully weather will be cooling down everywhere from today.

Big_G

Shades, it's the same course as last year.  This year's my Strava said 798 but I just checked and on the same course last year it was 734!  2016s was a slightly different course (one slope less than 2018/9's course) and that was 546 so maybe that's where you or I got the 550 from?  I just checked a few other runners from last night and they were about 800ft too.  Not sure why I look at it really as I know it's not accurate but I like to think it's at least fairly accurate (although maybe it's not!).

Legs were feeling it a bit this morning, after last night's effort.  I did 4 miles at an easy pace to get them turning over a bit.  Horrible running conditions though

Big_G

Shades, just as a matter of interest I plotted last night's route on plotaroute and it says 778ft.

SHADES

Big_G said:

Shades, I'll be going through Totnes to get there.  It's the most direct way, but around the Totnes bridge area it can be busy, especially this time of year.  That's the way I'll be going though, and hoping to time it to miss the worst of the traffic.

I've just looked back on my Strava and it's 550ft ascent for the 10k.  I remember the first section to be pretty steep in places, but that bit from 2.5 miles to 4.5 is very runnable.  Looking forward to it.  I did 47:47 last time, so aiming for around that again I suppose!

Big G - I've paged back to last year and I did get 550ft from you, maybe that was the older course?

Not sure if the 800 is Strava wildly exaggerating again?   I think Plotaroute uses the same rogue data as Strava, I think they all do.   I think the calculations are a bit like the calories used on a fitness device and ramped up to make the athlete feel better.
 When I measure a route on mapometer I always knock off 15 or 20 %, even then I think sometimes they are still exaggerated.    
I was roughly the same time at Ashburton as I was at Kingsbridge and I have the elevation about the same for the 2 races and if I remember correctly the hills were in accordance with your elevation profile above.

Big_G

Shades, yeah, the route is pretty much the same comparing 2016 (that diagram above) and 2019 (below).  There is one incline extra in the newer route in the last half a mile, but it wouldn't account for 250ft difference.  Maybe 20ft difference as an absolute max .  Just goes to show the elevation estimates are massively out then, or at least maybe Strava have changed the mapping data/algorithm between 2016 and 2018/19?  Who knows.

Cal Jones

Well done Big G.

Yesterday was crazy hot. I had my third appointment with Helen Hall so had to tube it up to Amersham and back, plus a mile walk.
Anyway, she was very pleased with my progress and I now have a new lot of exercises to do. She videoed me on the treadmill and said I have runner's legs now and the left foot is working better. I still have some things to tweak and shoulder blades is one of those - my upper body is not great when I run, apparently!
When I got back home my flat felt relatively cool compared to outside, even though my thermostat was 29.5 (it went up another degree once I'd got home). Unsurprisingly I did not sleep well.

I did go for a run this morning and it was cooler, with a bit of rain which I enjoyed. I did 6 miles (actually 10K - I wanted to collect my washing from the launderette and the extra .2 got me a bit closer) but my PC refused to talk to my Garmin and I had to reset it which meant I lost my data. Very annoyed. The Garmin's been quite flakey like that on and off. It's a Forerunner 25 and does everything I want it to, but I'm thinking it may be time for a new one. Which model do you guys recommend? I don't need multisports, don't care about phone connectivity or, particularly, HR, but I do need reliablity. Mine records cadence, stride length and elevation so I want those features still and I need a long battery life because I'm likely to do an ultra in the next year or so.

SHADES

Big G - I think all elevation measures that are available to us are wildly flawed.   I did speak to an engineer who has one of those geeky minds and he was saying that it's possible the measurement will bounce of the nearest recorded point, so you could run halfway up a hill and turn around and the measurement could take the elevation measurement from the top of the climb.   It's really frustrating, I wish the various websites would be more honest about the readings.

Must go, have to watch the highlights of TdeF before I start watching today's stage 

SHADES

xpost Cal - that's good progress on your appointment with Helen Hall.

I don't have cadence or stride length on my Garmin 310XT (as far as I know).   Do you have a device on your shoe to measure those?
Most of the newer Garmins have much longer battery life, although mine is an older model and has 20 hours battery life.

Cal Jones

No, I think it figures out cadence by arm movement and then divides each mile by the number of times you swing your arms. At least, that's how I think it probably works.