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Shades Marathon Training

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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - that's fast, great running especially  running on your own.  70+ WAVA most impressive.  Fetch have a reverse WAVA calculator where it will tell you what the equivalent times are for other distances at that WAVA.

    I don't have a webcam either but I do have a headset that I use for Skype when we have our ARC committee meetings.   I'm happy with my own company, I rarely phone anyone.   I am missing the gym though.
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Yes, I use the Fetch calculator. I've been using a lot for my club virtual parkrun challenge to work out the results. I've still not scored any points thanks to the ridiculously fast peeps. Eh, never mind. It's keep everyone motivated and they're very thankful for it.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cal, yes a camera and a mic needed to get the best out of Zoom - I've organised a quiz might for my club for this coming Friday.  Another great run there for you, getting some speed in!

    Shades, I think I've said it before, but I used to love working from home partly for that reason.  When I officially left the office to work from home, I didn't miss the office interaction at all.  It's really not for everyone, but it worked well for me.  I think the initial reaction is that people may slack off if WFH, but actually it can work the other way very easily - i.e, because you're at home and the laptop and mobile are always there, it's easier to receive/make a call, send an email, do some work, etc.  I initially found that I had to be careful to "shut the office door" and once that was shut, in my mind I was then no longer at work.  It can be very dependent on the boss though - some bosses just call you up at any time of the day (or night!) which is a real pain in the neck!
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    7 miles this morning.  I took it really, really steady and knee was ok. I’d originally planned 5ish, but did another couple as I was quite enjoying it out there today. 
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Just watched the 1981 marathon.  Really enjoyed that!  I knew about the joint finish for the men, but I hadn't realised about the leading woman - it was a great finish by her.  A totally different era, but the commentators were saying they were wondering if it would spark a running boom.  Some of the commentary was amusing, with Des Lynam running on Tower Bridge with the back markers, asking the runners if they thought they were going to finish, and saying there were 7000 in front of them etc.  Some cracking times too, from the masses!  I really enjoyed it, so worth a watch I'd say.  
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2020
    Big G - I've only worked from home for a short period when the company I worked for was shutting down and I was being made redundant.  I really enjoyed it as didn't need to work all day, ran 10 miles in the morning, a bit of work then off to the gym.  I found I could work a lot quicker without the interruptions of office life.   For years I also worked part time at home doing book keeping so used to working at home.

    Good the knee was OK today, have you eased up on the gardening/decking project?

    I watched the 1981 marathon too, remarkably well filmed considering it was the first.
    Amazing to think that was 3 years before the first women's marathon in the Olympics.

    I bet the guys running now are grateful that fashion has moved on and those tiny little shorts are history 😮
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yeah, some of the shorts were, errm, revealing!  Whether it's a sense of nostalgia (even though I wasn't there, of course!) or what it is but it all just seemed so simple.  That lady at the start who finished in about 5:30 I think - Madge - she was very amusing, and they caught up with her at the end too.  She said she'd peaked at 70 miles the week before.  And the course along those cobbles under Tower Bridge in the wet must have been quite tough.  Agree, the BBC and the commentary did a great job I think.

    OH is back at work today for 4 days, so I've taken the opportunity to have a day off of the gardening :)   We got quite a lot done in the last 3 days though.  I've had a bit of luck as there's a guy behind me with a large garden, and he poked his head over the fence and started asking what I was going to do with all the decking that's come out.  I said a lot of it is rotten but he's welcome to it if he wants it.  His eyes lit up and he said to chuck it over, so I threw over 70-odd 5m lengths yesterday.  Saves me having to deal with it, and there's loads more where that came from if he wants it.  I think he's going to cut out any decent bits and make a bench and table out of it, and probably just burn the rotten bits.  Some of the framework is timber that is in reasonable condition so I'm going to make some more beds out of that. Some of the rubble is an old path that had been dug up, so I've been using that to make some mosaic paths between some beds I've already put in.  Basically anything I can reuse or give away saves me having to try and get it down a load of steps to the road!  OH's happy though as she's got 5 large beds she can start planting veg in now, and she made a start on that yesterday.  I did burn some wood early evening yesterday (I mentioned it to the neighbours first and as it was fairly cold, no one was out in their gardens anyway) so it was good to get rid of some of the stuff that can't be reused.

    We'd run out of a few things like onions and carrots, so I just went down to the town centre Lidl to get a few bits.  No problem in there at all and quite relaxed, and still quite a lot left.  Can't get self-raising flour for love nor money though!  

    Locally there are a couple of bakeries doing deliveries on fresh mixed items of 10, so OH bought one of those a couple of days ago, which was really nice.  Cake, tarts, brownies, flapjacks, etc.  I think we've only got one item left though!
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I think that lady Madge went on to run London for years, possibly into her 80's.

    You've done well with the garden project and now that the veg beds are done I guess the pressure has eased up for anything still to be done.   Very useful neighbour, one man's rubbish etc...

    That's a nice takeaway delivery, I heard that bakeries / cake makers were doing that locally.  
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Cal-Great effort on your own there.
    Shades-Are you saying short shorts aren't in fashion?
    Big G-Might be worth asking what time they work their deliveries,we get SR flour in,but only a limited quantity and ours comes in in the afternoon.
    Thought I'd try a HM pace effort today,boy it hurt.6 miles and no idea how I ran 13.1 at that,got it done so nearly 9 miles altogether brings 54 for the week,so hoping to go back in to the 60's next week.
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    RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Ian - Nice mileage
    Big G - major respect for your DIY skills. I’m awful at all that. If it hasn’t got instructions, I’m toast basically. 
    Meant to be a rest day today but felt great and had an some time free so thought I’d take advantage of the lovely weather for a quick 5 miles. My shin splint issue is still minimal pain/discomfort but seems to have appeared on the other leg. Since I haven’t been doing much mileage and now it’s appeared on both legs, I’m assuming it’s just a function of adapting to new strength training so will keep running and hope it goes away. 
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Well done Ian - tough session!  I'll try and ask someone about the flour next time I'm down there.

    Shades, yes, I think the bakeries/cake makers are doing a good trade.  The one we used sells out his capacity very quickly.  I think he says what he's going to make in two days time (i.e., a mixed box, or a box of a specific item) and he sells out in a few minutes.

    Rcouture, my Dad is 81 now but when he was younger, and even up to his mid-70s, was very handy.  He could turn his hand to most things and do a very good job, so I suppose I picked things up from him over the years, helping fitting kitchens/bathrooms, patios, building walls etc when I was younger.  He drilled into me "Measure twice, cut once", which is a good strategy I've found!  I don't do any construction, but I remember years ago he built his own garage from scratch, from the footings to the pitched roof, which is way beyond my capability.   I've done up a few flats over the years and to keep costs down I did a fair bit of the work myself.  I don't touch electrics or gas at all, but most other things I'll have a go at.  Having said that, I do get a chap in to fit kitchen worktops as I've butchered a work top in the past which had to go around a corner - cutting them in properly is quite tough without the proper gear, or at least I found it tough!  A long time ago now I did go on a plastering course which has come in handy over the years.  I tend to buy equipment though as opposed to doing things by hand - i.e., tile cutter, cement mixer, circular saw, etc, where as my Dad used to do it all by hand.  I've just found that getting the tools in makes progress a) a lot quicker for me and b) I'm more likely to get things right first time, as opposed to breaking lots of things!  I remember the first time I wanted to tile a bathroom I broke a lot of tiles and was getting a bit annoyed, so I promptly went out and bought a tile cutter.  Probably it was partly the quality of the tiles (we were on a budget) but probably partly it's that I was just heavy handed :)  
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - you just put those tiny shorts away in the drawer with the speedos ready for your next beach holiday ;) 

    Another good week's training from you.

    Rcouture - well you know how much strength training you are doing.   I know my legs feel heavy and tired if I've done some strength stuff.  I never had shin pain, but that may be that I wasn't doing the same exercises as you.

    The only other possibility is that the cushioning is worn out in your shoes.


    Big G - are you going to do some baking now?   Not having SR flour isn't a problem, just add baking powder to plain flour.  

    Well it seems you're very skilled in DIY after all. :)   With your unwillingness to visit B & Q last year plus the shoulder injury I thought you didn't really do any DIY.


    7 miles today, cool morning but no wind.   I ran out on the main road and noticed a lot more traffic this morning, I guess a few more companies are back to work now.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, ha ha, I can do DIY, but that doesn't mean that I necessarily enjoy it :)  I nearly always find that my initial generous estimate of how long something may take is out by at least a factor of two :)  I think the shoulder was because I was in a big rush to get things done, with moving two properties into one, and I think I overdid it.  Physically, I'm just not used to it as I don't do it enough.  In the more recent past I have started getting people in if I want to turn around something quickly.  Paying someone who really knows what they're doing and is far quicker than me is often more efficient longer term!  I.E., if something would take me 6 weeks and a professional can do the same thing in a week or two, sometimes I've found it just pays to get them in.  But when we were younger we were on more of a budget so we tried to do more stuff ourselves.  But I've wasted so much time going and back and forward to the store to get things I need to finish a job, whereas a professional more than likely has everything they need in their van to overcome any problems.  
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    It's not me, but OH is an occasional baker and was looking for SR flour the past couple of weeks.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I agree re the DIY, although I can't do anything more than slap on some paint.   It just takes so long and is so fiddly if you don't have the time, or for me the skill.   Much better to pay someone to do it.

    Of course right now you couldn't keep going back to the store multiple times, would be considered unnecessary journeys. ;) 

    Well perhaps you can nonchalantly mention to OH about the baking powder without her thinking you're a master baker.  I need plain flour but it's not urgent, none in Aldi last time I went but they had SR in stock then.
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    1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Shades - Nice HR results there, proves the training is working.
    Cal - Speedy running. I think you'll be on for a parkrun PB when they are back on.
    Ian - That's a tough session at HM pace! Nice weekly total.
    Big G - Both the Kipchoge and London marathon were great to watch.

    16 miles for me on Saturday, then a couple of hours of gardening in the afternoon. 5 miles on Sunday and kettlebells for about 48 miles for the week. Hoping to get into the 50's in May.
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Good stuff, peeps.
    I was considering a long run today but woke up a bit too late and then, once I got out, I realised two fast runs in three days had left my legs feeling quite trashed, despite only doing half my usual mileage last week. So I did 8 which seemed enough for today.
    Looks like being rainy for the rest of the week (but at least that'll keep people indoors).
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-I hate DIY,OH does the painting,I just do the high bits but other than that we pay people.
    Steve-Nice running again,combined with gardening cross training.
    Cal-1 speedier run yesterday has took it out of me,never mind 2 so good idea to take it easy today.
    8 miles today brings 226 for the month,19 behind my record,I'm having a rest day Wednesday,but hoping to 14 or so tomorrow,then 8 or 9 Thursday,so may sneak 250 in April.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited April 2020
    Shades, I may well do that regarding the baking powder.  She is a very good cook, which is lucky for me :D 

    I went out and did 10 miles today on one of my favourite routes, but this time with the HR monitor. I had the 142 in my mind but it was very difficult to keep it at that with the undulations/steep hills.  I had to walk one of the hills (roughly one mile) and HR was up at 155ish even walking (briskly).  Average for the whole run was 146.

    I did this route 2-3 weeks ago in under 90mins and was really pleased with that, and I ran all the hills that day - I was chuffed with that as never had ran it all before.  Usually I do it in around 100mins whereas today, trying to keep the HR down, I was 105mins.

    Shades, what would you do with that info?  Just keep trying to keep the HR down, but not be too obsessive if the average overall is 146ish (as opposed to 142).  Or slow down some more, which would mean walking quite a lot?  Or go back to what I was doing?  I think I want to make sure I'm using this time off in the best way so I am  bit confused at the moment.  One the one hand I know I can run marathons, but on the other hand it seems my base fitness isn't what I assumed it was.

    (I had a typo with the times for my run above, so edited it).
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Steve - I see you have gardening now as your cross training, can be hard work.

    Are you still planning to get married later in the year?

    Ian - 250 in a 30 day month is good.

    Big G - that's a good run today.  I would just continue to try to keep the HR down to your target HR.  You'll find that you'll become more skilled at controlling the HR before it gets so high that you are forced to walk to get it back down.  Having to slow dramatically is what will slow your overall pace most of all.  Next time you do that route slow down before the hill allowing the HR to drop, this will give you a few more BPM to use on the hill.

    When you run a flatter route see how your pace is for the last few miles, is there cardiac drift?  Hard to assess on a hillier route as once the HR gets too high it can be hard to get it back down.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - did you get your hair cut?

    Just saw Boris on telly and looks like he needs a haircut too, although with him it's hard to tell.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, thanks for that. I’ll just slow down a bit then and keep the 142 in mind but not totally obsess over it. Overall today was still 30secs/mile slower than what I usually do on that route, and 90secs/mile slower than when I pushed the pace the other week.

    Yes, I think there is cardiac drift from that MAF test I did. Towards the end of a run should I slow down even more then?  Today in the 9th mile on the flat I was at 148-150bpm running at 9:30min/mile.  Should I have slowed down to say 10min/miles to try and get the HR right back down?  It’s just that these days 10min/miles on the flat really does feel like a shuffle but if it’s the way to go, I’m tempted to go with it whilst I’ve got so much time on my hands. After all, being out for an extra 10-20mins doesn’t make a whole of difference to me at the moment!  It’s hard as I feel I need to run the hills as I know that’s a weak area of mine, but HR would be in the 170s if I do that. 

    Yes, I’ve had the hair cut.  Credit to her, OH did a really good job - it looks like it does after a ‘proper’ hair cut!  She used the clippers around the back and sides (changing length half way up) and then scissors on the top.

    Good to see BoJo back. Seems fairly obvious to me as a layman that he can’t ease the restrictions yet, and he needs to keep the message very simple.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - ideally you should stick to the HR and not worry about the pace.   Then in time you'll find that your pace won't drop at all over the duration of the run, hills will obviously affect pace.

    The more you use the HRM the more adept you'll become at running at an even HR.  And even on a hillier run you'll be able to get the HR down more quickly.   Does need a bit of patience but you should see improvements fairly quickly.
    Maybe stick to the flat just for a couple of weeks and you'll be in control of your HR.   Then introduce one or two hilly runs a week.

    While we're in lockdown it couldn't be a better time to base train.

    That's great news on the haircut, I hope you tipped her well. :)

    Yes, I agree re Boris, I think we won't know what's next at least until the 7th.   I think it would be a mistake to hint now at release plans as with social media and those idiotic journalists it would all be distorted and confusing for all.

    I've been most impressed during the pandemic how companies, supermarkets etc have quickly introduced new systems that in normal times would have taken months/years to perfect.  Had a text to say delivery from DHL today at 13:43 to 17:43.  Precisely at 13:43 it arrived, no signature obviously, driver takes a photo of the premises instead, such a good idea.

    Shoe tidy assembled, have rounded up all my shoes and there's still space for maybe another 2 pairs.....
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    RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Shades - Re HR training does the reverse apply in that if I train consistently at what today is a conversational pace which also happens to be my marathon target pace, I should be able to reduce my HR at that pace and therefore make me more comfortable at the mara? That’s been my assumption and why I am largely doing all my running at the same pace which is effectively my marathon target. It’s about 8:40-50 which feels fine even though my HR is in the mid to high 150s (think my max is 185ish). I know during mara training my miles are largely meant to be easier than this but I thought that if I ran this way for the many months ahead of starting the mara training programme, it would be a good setup
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - No,  your easy pace should be one to two minutes slower per mile than your marathon pace.

    If you do all your running at too high an intensity you won't develop your aerobic system.

    Easy/long run pace should be roughly 70-75% MHR, so if your max is 185 then training HR should be roughly 130-139 BPM.

    Your training pace might explain why you said the increase in weekly mileage you found hard.   If you do all your runs at race pace you'll just wear yourself out and probably end up injured too.

    This is the training plan I follow, I'm not expecting you to want to do the same but although it waffles on it does explain about training at slower paces and lower heart rates.   It's a long read..

    https://www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf

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    Cozy1504Cozy1504 ✭✭✭
    Hi all, just checking in!

    Done a few 5 milers last week, running mojo low at the moment but trying to keep it ticking over.

    Somehow seemed to pick up some bug so have been pretty unwell the last few days, but thankfully able to eat again now without feeling terrible!

    My work got me £75 run4it vouchers for my 40th which was lovely as I've only been there 6 months,  so I think I'll treat myself to some Hokas when the shops back open.
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    mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    Ian/Cal - Speedy running from you two.

    Big G - Hope your knee was ok for today's run.

    Shades - Sounds like you chose the perfect shoe tidy. Obviously can't leave any space on it  ;)
    Those are encouraging results from your training, frustrating that you can't race to see how you perform! Are you going to try and plan any long runs into your training?

    Rubbish run for me this morning. Felt really tired and was a real effort - and that was keeping things to base HR too so a fair bit of walking. I'm blaming the pollen  :|

    Meeting for work this morning. We are waiting for the PM to be a bit more specific in his guidelines for coming out of lockdown when he gives his report tomorrow but school should be starting with no more than 12 pupils from the 11th May. The maire has said the guidelines for cooking/serving food to children are complicated so she has decided that initially we will not be providing food but asking the parents to provide their child with a packed lunch which lets me off the hook Thank God. I will be required to supervise the children and make sure they respect social distancing during eating and playtimes. That should be easy  :#

    On a base training note if anyone is considering it I would also suggest using quieter routes as keeping stopping and starting running is not easy when there's lots of people around. I mean it's obviously possible it just makes you feel a bit self conscious.
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    RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Shades - Thanks for that I will have a read for sure. The problem is that at 130-139 I would basically be walking which makes think the 185 max might be wrong (basing it off my Garmin). 
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rcouture- I have my max about 186,that was from a tough effort in a 5k,again it was based off a watch so not ideal,looking at that I do my runs at aiming to be no higher than 139.I used to be about 9-9.30m/m at that heart rate a couple of years ago I'd guess and now it's around 8 m/m.It takes a lot of patience but is worth it in the long run.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cozy- sorry to hear you have had a nasty bug.

    Your workmates must think highly of you to be so generous, especially as you've not been there that long.  

    As the government has been so supportive of our daily exercise maybe when retailers can reopen sports shops might be one of the earlier ones.   Bit risky buying them online as you've not tried them before.

    Mamafox - I have 2 more race entry fees on their way back to me so I don't think that shoe space will be there for long.   I've already seen some prices start to increase, I expect bargain trainers are selling well and who knows if/when the planned launch of the next wave of shoes will happen.   I know some clothes retailers are cancelling orders from their suppliers so might happen too in sports, I don't know.

    No immediate plans for long runs.  At the moment my next marathon is the end of June, can't see that happening.  Hard, especially for me, to want to do a long run not knowing when I might race again.

    The pollen is bad here too.

    That's good news about not having to cook for the children.  I'm sure you'll be good at the keeping them in order.  ;)

    You're right about the base training being much easier when nobody else around.
    My HR goes sky high if I see a cyclist coming towards me on the pavement.  😬
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