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Shades Marathon Training

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    RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    6 and a bit miles for me this evening. Felt crap due to limited sleep and too much work but knee seems ok. Club session tomorrow evening which I’m looking forward to. 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - hope that knee niggle after your long run was just a blip.   Enjoy your club session tonight.


    Big G - don't forget physio today  ;)



    6 miles this morning, chilly but not frosty, legs OK.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    List updated with correct finishing times from Strawberry Field events


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    1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    edited April 2022
    Keith - Great work!
    Rcouture - Good news the knee is OK.
    Shades - I also looked at Shepperdine as it's meant to be a fast course.

    6 miles with strides and 4 mile double yesterday and 7 miles today. Shakeout of 3-4 miles on Saturday, calf feels fine, so all good to go I guess!
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Steve, I did Shepperdine last year, as did Shades, and it was my quickest time last year.  

    Shades, yes, it is imprinted on my brain this time  1.15pm :)  

    Just been to see Dad own at Totnes and they had him out of bed and on a chair.  That is the first time in literally months (no exaggeration but I think it was early-Jan was the last time he was out on a chair), so that is something.  No plan for him as yet though.

    I, however, do have kind of a plan brewing.  After taking to everyone (OT, physio, doctors, nurses) they have all basically said whether I am here or not makes no difference to them in terms of their plan.  They won't discharge him (either to home or a care home) without the appropriate plans in place (i.e, he won't just be chucked out).   In trying to figure out what has been stressing me out, I realised it was the length of time me being away - we had planned to be in Ireland for 12 days (plus a couple of days either side, at least).  I have just called Caravan Club and they can move my return ferry for a nominal fee, so I am considering that, and only stay in Ireland for maybe 5 or 7 days.  I think that would make me feel happier about the whole thing as if I feel I need to get back, I can do so much more easily.  I will speak to OH about it a bit later.

    The only other nagging issue is that if they come up with a plan that Dad doesn't like, and it all kicks off due to that (which has happened in the past).  I have spoken to his partner about this prospect, and she is here to placate him if he starts getting argumentative about any plans.  Basically, he does not want to go back into a care home, even if it is only temporary, but if the home care isn't available straight away, that is what may happen.  This is not a subject I have felt able to bring up with him as yet.  
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Steve - I also did my fastest time of the year at Shepperdine last year.   I think my Garmin measured the total elevation at 195 feet.

    That's good news on the calf and just at the right time.   Weather looks good too.


    Big G - I hope the physio has a definitive answer to that perplexing knee problem. 

    I didn't realise you had planned to be away from home for such a long time.  So shortening your trip would be a good option and you'd still get to do your 💯 when and where you want.  

    Is your Dad in Totnes hospital?  My Mum was there for a while, great for visiting, park up and pop upstairs.   Instead of walking miles of corridors at Torbay.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yeah, he is at Totnes.  Being a tight arse I park over the road at Morrisons which is free for 2hrs even if not using the shop.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I don't remember paying for parking, maybe it was free in the evenings then, or very inexpensive.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Had physio appointment and good news is that he doesn’t think it’s anything serious in terms of a tear or anything like that. He did admit it can be hard to pinpoint issues in knees as they’re complex, but he said it’s likely to be meniscal ‘aggravation’ or a tendon strain (pes anserinus, which I’ve never heard of), or maybe both. He said it can be a few weeks to get rid of, which is what I’ve noticed. I said I’ve pretty much stopped all exercise for the last 2 weeks but he said to resume cycling at low intensity, and gave me some exercises/stretches. I’ve been doing a couple of them already, but he gave me a couple more that I’ve not been doing. I explained my typical running mileage and that I didn’t know if cycling was helping or not, but he said okay to cycle at an easy effort. 

    I didn’t mention the marathon as I know he’d have said to not run (yes, I know I should probably have told him!), but I’m heartened that at least he doesn’t think it’s anything too serious as my general strength was good and no bad pain when he did his tests. 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - well that's reassuring that you can continue with the rehab you've been doing plus the extra that he's given you.  Most importantly not advising complete rest.

    You know you can get round a marathon, of course you may have omitted to tell him that too. 🤭
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yes, I didn’t mention any marathons or events - funny how they slipped my mind.  When he asked what running I do I just said I’m a long distance runner, and do 50/60 miles a week, interspersed with some cycling.  I was there in a DD hoodie, but I don’t think he noticed that particularly :) Seriously though, if he had said it was serious I wouldn’t run it, but I am fairly sure I’ll get around it. I suppose we will find out fairly soon. 

    Spoken to OH and we’ve changed overall plans for NI, but as it stands the decision is that we are making the trip over and I’m doing Belfast Marathon :)  I’ve changed the ferry bookings and if it still all does kick off I can just get a ferry back on the day, and it’s not extortionate, so I’m much happier with the new plan. Fingers crossed it all works out. I think it will be one of those that I’ll be a bit worried about everything going to shit until I’ve actually done the event and have the medal around my neck!

    I’ve had email confirmation that I should have race number 100. I need to go to a different desk to pick it up, rather than the usual desks. 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - unless your physio is a marathon or ultra runner it's best not to mention marathons, especially multiple marathons  ;)

    That's fabulous news about Belfast marathon and that you and OH have made the decision to go.   That worried/nervous feeling will probably last until the start gun goes on race day, that's the point that you know you can finish.

    VIP treatment having to collect your number from a separate desk.  :)   I've always found the organisers at Belfast great to deal with.


    5 miles this morning, lovely morning but a sharp north wind in places.
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    Big G - are garden was a mess a couple of years ago, overgrown and used as a dumping ground for rubbish.  Much hard work and time, but we have a garden that we can sit out and relax in.  Great news you've made plans for Belfast! Right to be cautious and making sure everything was sorted as much as it could at home first.  

    Keith - I would have have a pizza and a burger after that running!  Sounds like you're recovering well! Have you signed up for next year yet?

    Ian - great race report and congrats for sticking to your plan, always a great sign when you know what you're capable of.  Of course we love it when we run 10 mins faster but so often wheels fall off and miss our targets.  It sounds like a great race, the closest I think I'll make it is Boston Lincs.

    Good luck Steve! Hope the legs have enjoyed the taper and massage!

    Shades how's the legs, ready for Sunday?

    Cal now you've done the 100 are there any other challenges you're doing, I know compass North, South, East, west and alphabet are popular challenges and can do bingo at the same time!

    Been a weird week, Monday was a final bit of digging roots of the bush in the garden, also booked a holiday for next April, back to Turkey to the hotel we loved in 2018, have question marks over the timing due to the potential of not being that warm but we're restricted to school holidays with Elle's job.

    Massage on Wednesday which was quite late before Sunday's run, 5 mile shake out last night went okay, although got a bruised feeling above my toes. Niggly glute is still there as a dull ache but hopefully it behaves as it has done on all my longer runs.

    Had news on the work front but doesn't really give us an answer on the future of the company.  Basically another 2 month limbo time hopefully its fate is pretty much decided and just need to sign over a few things.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Robert - good news on booking the holiday for next year, something to look forward too.   Booking holidays does make it feel like we are back to 'normal'.

    Hope the glute is OK, is it the gardening that set that off?    

    You'll be picking up your pension before your employers finally announce the future of the company  ;)


    My legs feel OK.   However, it's likely that Sunday will be a DNF for me.   I was hoping to be able to ask for an early start.   Last year due to Covid staggered starting times we could ask for an earlier start and I was moved up to start with the fast guys.   I did do a sub 5, had to work hard for it and not sure I'm quite there this year, whether there'll be any aftereffects of the two 50k races last weekend, I don't know.   

    The race info email reads....

    We know that training for a marathon requires a lot of commitment. Due to the 5 lap nature of our route, if you are a bit unsure of your fitness we suggest you come along and make a start - it's easy enough to drop out after a lap or two if things aren't going right for you.

     So I've read that as no early starts which is OK with me, I'm quite happy to give it a go and if it doesn't go well I'll have still have had a decent 15 or 20 mile run.    I'm not bothered about a DNF, much better than a DNS, nothing is ever achieved by not trying.   A sub 5 now would be a London GFA time for me due to my advancing age so I accept that it might be harder to achieve.  :o    If I DNF I'm sure I'll still get my free coffee and sticky bun :)


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    Shades the niggle is been there for a while, the gardening didn't help but didn't make it worse.  The pension is one of the things thats holding up the decision, the scheme obviously are worried if we carry on we may not have the resources to pay the deficient later on.  Along side regulator concerns of long term sustainability if we choose to carry on trading in some shape of form.  

    Defo worth the trip on Sunday, go with the mindset of a long supported run but can always carry on if you feel good.  Talking of DNF saw Steve Edwards ran his slowest run for a few years yesterday in 3:49. 932 marathons at an average sub 3:20 and no DNF. He needs to get himself to some hilly ultras!!!!
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Robert, our Chairman knows Steve quite well and I believe fairly regularly offers him a DD place but as far as I know he’s never taken him up on it. I suppose he doesn’t want to ‘waste’ an event whilst he is chasing numbers and times? I don’t know him at all well, but I’ve been at probably 10-20 or so events that he’s been at on lapped courses, and if I don’t get lapped by him on a 7-8 lapper, I feel I’ve done okay!  How he does them so regularly at such a decent pace is beyond me really. Often, you can just tell he is really digging in as he has some time in mind, and at times he was putting himself through that week in, week out, which is just something I cannot do regularly as it knackers me out. I did read somewhere in the last week that Adam Holland has done something like 150+ sub-3s now, and done about 10 this year already I think. But, and I know it sounds odd, a sub-3 for him I suppose is fairly ‘comfortable’ (probably not the right word), as he recently went under 2:30 again. 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Robert - no more gardening for you for a while then.

    The last of my small employment pension schemes matured at the end of last year.   I know the pension fund in the past had a sizeable deficit which the company were trying to pay off over several years.   The administrators of the pension fund changed a few years ago and I no longer had any info on the status of the pension fund.  I had a lot of trouble claiming my pension, incompetent administrators, but I battled on and eventually all sorted.   Which is good as the company I'd worked for has just gone into administration, sad, not their fault but true casualties of the pandemic.

    I know Steve (the Godfather) quite well, and he's a lovely guy.   His biography is a good read, I'll lend it to you, when we meet.   Big G is right, Steve is very focussed and if he's carrying an injury or just not having a good run, he really does give it his all and digs very deep.   He's not interested in ultras at all, he came down to present the prizes one year at DD, so he may have run it then, not sure.
    We all have our own goals and targets, his is to run all his marathons with an average of sub 3:30, I expect he's got a few Guinness book of records listed to his name.
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    RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    edited April 2022
    Rob - Always nice to look forward to a holiday. Turkey’s lovely too. Went to Marmaris many years ago. 

    Shades - Nice 5 miles and hopefully you surprise yourself on Sunday. 

    Club tempo session last night. Was a bit off the pace again after not hitting my paces on my 20 miler at the weekend. Knee is ok but there seems to be no real bounce in my step. Not sure if it’s the miles and long runs catching up with me or bad sleep/work. Heart rate seems fine. Only other thing I can think of vs previous two mara builds is that I’m doing more regular strength work with actual weights and things like squats. I’d planned to just do a 2 week taper and have my big long run workout 14 days before and a more chilled 16-18 miler this weekend but may reconsider swapping them around and having more like a proper 3 week taper. Otherwise I followed Rob’s example and booked in a sports massage this afternoon which I’m looking forward to. 
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Ian - I'll be 55 in June. I ran 3:57 at Yorkshire when I was at my best. Problem is I can't even manage a sub-2 half now. I don't know if I'll get that speed back or not. Going to try, though.

    Big G...hope the plan pans out.

    Rob...I finished the compass challenge when I got you to take me to Westmill! (Still keen on Jersey Farm, though...need that letter J!)

    Another niggle warrior here. Knee and groin have kept me from running the last couple of days...I did a 6 miler on Wednesday and knee started up but didn't warm up like it did when it was grumbling before the marathon. Just did gym yesterday and groin was horrible and achy all day so I decided I'd just walk today in case any of the glute and ab exercises I've been doing made things worse. Still hoping I can run at parkrun tomorrow so fingers crossed the rest day will help. (The knee is definitely acting up because something in the groin is dodgy, and in turn the SI joint isn't right, so it's all connected. If it doesn't let up I will have to get a massage or see my phys, though I'm loathe to do so this month as my rental agency decided to take all my money this month so I've had to raid my ISA to pay this month's bills and food).
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - the sleep/work issues will certainly affect you and more noticeably when you try some speedwork.   The strength work will also take the bounce out of your legs.   Maybe just ease up on the strength work for a couple of days.

    I've had to briefly stop the gym work as my 3 races in 10 days is probably as much as my legs can take.   I do plan to go back to the gym next week, but will be light stuff as I have a marathon next weekend and the one after.

    Cal - sorry to hear that one niggle has lead to another and then another and now you're feeling a bit crocked.  Sounds really uncomfortable 😞
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    Big G SE is all about the numbers, I wonder what his plans are after the 1000? Whenever he chooses his 1000th I'm sure the RD will be happy if it'sa smaller event as will attract a few followers.  AH is a machine, terrain doesn't seem to bother him.

    Shades I listened to Steve's marathon talk podcast when he was on 500.  He rated Stevenage marathon as the worst he'd done.  I didn't think it was too bad, it's basically my training running area when in the office.  I like that Steve promotes the events he runs (other than Stevenage) as small businesses/ races can do with all the help they can get.  Pensions are complex things, hopefully I wont have to chase too much for mine being with Unison and HSBC.

    Rcouture We're going to Icmeler and I ran to Marmaris and back a few times during my trip. Icmeler is very quiet in comparison.  Enjoy the massage, hope the knee behaves, sometimes it's just mental how if we're out of normal pattern it affects everything and how we feel.

    Cal let me check the diary but late may/ june should be okay for JF.  Your rental agency is my Elle, she raids the joint account... ordered herself a portable speaker to use when marshalling on Sunday at Dorney... Spose I'll benefit as will run past 8 times.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2022
    Robert - since my earlier post I've had a long letter about the pension from the company that went into administration.  Won't affect me except that any annual increases will come into affect on January 1st every year instead of April.
    But those that are below scheme's pension age will only receive 90% of pension due when they come to claim.  

    I didn't think Stevenage marathon was that bad, I had a decent run there despite the dizzying amount of underpasses.  Just shows how a bad run can influence your opinion of an event.
    He invited us all to his 500th, I didn't go, I've forgotten where it was.  He might well go for a bigger event, such as Brighton or Manchester for his 1000th.

    There'll be no slacking on Sunday with Elle shouting encouragement with her portable speaker 📢. 😃
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Robert, the thing with AH is that he’s such a smooth runner. He’s obviously had bad runs, but when he’s at sub-3 pace and running well, he makes it look effortless. I feel that SE, on the other hand, seems to have to really work for whatever time he gets, but I never knew SE when he was younger, but he had a few sub-3s as well I believe. I meant to say, but I hope the job resolves itself soon. It must be stressful!  Are you looking around for something else, or waiting to see what happens at your current place first?

    Rcouture, well done for getting to the session though. Sounds like work is manic at the moment!

    Cal, I’m sure you can get back towards those times and as you say, a sub-2hr Half would be a great first step. Fingers crossed you can get along to parkrun tomorrow. 

    Shades, good news about your pension then. I get a monthly pension from Claire’s work, and I’m very aware it doesn’t go up anywhere near inflation, but I suppose that is the same for the vast majority of jobs, so I can’t complain!  There are some that I’d lose it if I ever remarried, but this one I keep for as long as I live, even if I remarry. It’s not huge by any means, but it all helps. 

    I took OH up to Bristol Airport today and the motorway traffic was ridiculous going North, with lots of delays. We left in plenty of time, planning on getting coffee and cake at a pub near the airport, but we had to abandon that idea and I just dropped her right there. She made it in time still, and she said the airport was heaving. She landed in NL safely, so all is good. She’s really looking forward to it, as she’s not been over for a long time. He parents have a new apartment and also a new boat, so she’s looking forward to seeing those and catching up with a couple of close friends too.  I would have gone if I could have, but I need to look after the hound :) 
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    RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Big G - How long are you home alone for? Party time presumably 😀?

    Had my sports massage earlier which was very nice. It’s quite dear so probably won’t make a habit of it! 

    6 miles this evening. Legs felt incredibly heavy post tempo/weights/massage so was quite slow. Having said that I’ve never seen my HR so low on any run, averaging 127bpm. I’ve never gone below mid 130s so double checked my HRM wasn’t on the blink and seemingly not. At least the aerobic base seems there even if legs aren’t. Still not sure sure what to do the next couple of weeks. Feels like I need one more big long run. I feel beat up now so could do with taking it easy this weekend but then if that big run is next weekend it means I only get a 2 week taper. If anyone’s got any suggestions I’m all ears!
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - agree AH has a beautiful fluid running style.   Don't forget that AH is about 25 years younger than SE.  I think SE's PB is around 2:50 maybe a bit faster.

    I'm 4 months away from my state pension and very efficiently of the DWP that is all in place, amount and date of payment finalised, which is good as I can finalise my budget for the rest of the year.  I have to stop living off my savings from then.

    Must be a long time since OH visited NL.
    I think we're going to have a summer of motorway nightmare driving.   That's stressful when heading for an airport.


    Rcouture - you don't have to have sports massage, it won't improve your running.    Of all the research only one recent study said there might be some evidence that it helps a little, all other research shows no benefit.
    However it is proven to be good for mental health, people that suffer with anxiety find it calms them and they feel it helps them.  Which is why when tapering marathon runners are stressed and go for a massage, they think it's for their legs, it's not, it's to calm them.

    As long as it's not your HRM battery it sounds to me like you are exhausted and not necessarily all from your training.   Take it easy for the next few days, a rest day or two and short easy runs, get some sleep.   Your body  should naturally bounce back after that, I'd stop the heavy strength work too, maybe just light weights and a short session, and maybe some gentle stretching.   No speedwork until you feel 100%, there's no point doing speedwork on tired legs.  If you try and squeeze another long run in when you are feeling like this you will get injured.   You've done plenty of long runs and you want to be on that start line bouncing full of energy and raring to go.    I don't think you need a 3 week taper, look how well you ran your 20 mile race with no taper at all.   So back off for a few days and see how you are then.


    Rest day for me today.


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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ha ha Rcouture, maybe not party as such, but ‘control of the remote in the evenings’ will be nice ;) I’m picking her up from Bristol airport on Tuesday morning. Great news on the HR. Maybe if you are feeling really tired/beat up, don’t worry too much about the long run this week. You don’t want to injure yourself at this stage and if your body is needing some rest, it is probably more likely to lead to an injury if you push it too much. You’ve done some decent training the last few weeks, including that 20 mile race a few weeks back, so don’t panic. 

    Up early to walk the dog today and it’s quite fresh with a strong breeze out there. Planning to get along to Bolberry Down parkrun today, and then hoping to see Dad at about 10 (you have to book a slot these days, but reception doesn’t open until 8am, and you can’t book the day before). 
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    X post, Shades.  Yes, it took me 20mins to write the above, between making coffee and faffing :) I think the last time we were in NL was for Rotterdam marathon, which was 2019!  Her parents came over here a few times between then and the pandemic, but then of course everything stopped. She would have gone sooner but was worried about getting stuck over there in terms of work, plus until fairly recently there were still quarantine requirements.  Now, there is just a passenger locator form to do, so it’s easier. Even when her parents came in February they had to do a test on the way to NL, but that’s not needed now. 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - good news that NL is just a locator form now to do.

    Before you go away can you let me know any other May marathons you're doing, I already have Belfast listed  :)
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I’ve got not nothing else booked at the moment, Shades. I was looking at Worcester, but that was in prep for the DD, so unless there is a big improvement in my knee I won’t be doing Worcester. 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - thanks, wasn't sure if you had lined a few up  ;)
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