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Micksta Coaching
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I think it depends on the person's outlook. To me a coach and mentor are both the same thing.
BTW you should now hopefully have mail from me.
Going from 34 mins to 28 mins in 2.5 years is a very tall order but its not impossible if you have good genes, train like a single minded demon, and don't get injured. Unfortunately only the second part is really fully within anyone's control.
Since GB mens distance running is in such a pitiful state it is arguably less difficult to make the team now than for a long long time.
And even if Micksta doesn't make it but still goes sub 30 - he'll be a class act.
Its a training goal thats all and motivates me to train harder!
More realistic for me, if im being sensible, would be Marathon for 2012!
But yes I still have hopes of going 30mins for 10k, MG reckons I could possibly achieve 14mins for 5k sometime ;p
For the marathon I think it'll probably be Brown, maybe Mayock if he sets his mind to it, Lobb could do it, Robinson could do it, Abyu is talented and still young for a marathon runner.
Interestingly in terms of age there is no one younger and faster on the UK marathon listings than our very own MikeB!
Micksta- hopefully I'll be racing against you in the trials in 2012
I have dreams about 2012, but know realistically I don't have the genes to go much quicker than low 2:20s. My long term aim is to peak for the 2010 commonwealth trials, and see what comes of it. Hopefully there will also be a European champs the same year, so potentially 6 places available, although I would need a big break thru between now and then to even stand a remote chance. 2014 would then be my last chance (at 34/5) to make a games team.
For me it's still a dream, and whilst I have no expectation of getting there I intend to have fun along the way!
By 1950 Peters had improved a great deal but it wasn't until 1951 that he ran his first marathon - 2.29.24 and then ran another six weekslater in 2.31.42. In 1952 he smashed the world record by running 2.20.42.
Then came 1953.
June 13th Polytechnic Marathon 2.18.40
July 25th AAA Marathon Cardiff 2.22.29
September 12th Enschede (Holland) Marathon 2.19.22
October 4th Turku (Finland) Marathon 2.18.34
In 1954 Peters finished 2nd in Boston 2.22.40 then on June 26th lowered his WR by running 2.17.39 and two weeks later he ran a 6mile PB 28.57. In his book he claims he could easily have run 2.15 that day but he was holding back as he due to compete in the Empire Games Marathon in Vancouver at the beginning of August and then the European Champs a few week later. Sadly, the unexpected heat in Vancouver took its toll and he collapsed on the track while almost 15mins ahead of the second placed runner. Peters never raced again but he was never bitter about hsi experiences.
Anyway... he was 36 when he reached his peak. So.. it can be done. Good luck.
Pirie and Peters admired each other greatly and were both very dismissive of the type of light training done by Bannister and Chataway. Pirie in particular was scathing of Bannister's almost scornful attitude to training as he believed it sent out totally the wrong signal to other British athletes. Pirie, however, ran differently to Peters and did intervals almost every day - sometimes twice a day! as well a lot of weight training.
er... that's it for now!
9:15 for 2 miles whilst quite a good time isn't all that fast. It's slower than the qualifier for the English schools championships over 3k (assuming 9:15 for 2 miles translates roughly to a 8:37 3k). For someone to be a world class runner you'd expect them to have that natural speed without too much of a problem.
URR you say you've read a lot of bios, and I seem to recall you pointing me in the direction a while back of Alan Webb's book by Chris Lear. Got it over the holiday period and now finished it, what did you think of it? Struck me as not really being about Webb at all, more about the training group in general and in particular Nate Brannen!
I think we can all help other runners by helping them not make the same mistakes we have made.
Micksta with a 2.43 marathon to his credit can help those who are wanting to break the 3hr barrier 'cause he "knows" what it took for him to do it although what works for one might not work for another. Some need to see the speed coming through with evidence of time trials etc while others have more confidence in building bigger weekly mileages.
I think it works in stages, a beginner who has successfully finished a half-marathon etc can help other beginners - that's what these forums are all about.
It is great that there is so much help out there for the beginner through to the runner who has run for many years - just coming on here gives us all something to think about.
One of the greatest inspirational runners for me has to be Jack Foster who started running at 32 and at 40 was an Olympic marathoner. At 41 he ran 2.11.
"I don't think of running as training. When I was asked about training and schedules I said I don't train, I just go for a run each day. Training to me is repetition 220's and 440's, tough sessions on the roads at or near five minute per mile pace. If this is what the phyiologists and sports specialist doctors have come up with to be a champ, then I must remain a mug runner and enjoy my evening sessions in the hills".
Jack mentored many of our marathon runners.
course the 10 years of training after that count too
Re: English Schools championships, reminds me of recent Max Jones article in AW.
I wonder where are all the former champions now? I guess Many never make the transition
from junior to senior.
Alan Webb story is interesting, though I thought it was less about the person Alan
Webb and more about the choice of direction, ie. going pro (Bernard Lagat) or
collegiate system.
www.esaa.net shows how many of the olympic team were successful at that level.
However, i agree that 8.37 is pretty quick for a future marathon man, as they will have predominantly slow twitch fibres and train to this end, therefore a fast 3k time is not essential, i believe that they could probably run the whole marathon at 9.15 3k pace with the right training.
Now thats a nice thought to have, me and you against each other in the trials for 2012, now that would make for intresting forum discussion!
Regarding older runners, I have noticed recently that more 35-40year old runners are featuring in the big city marathons, with the better knowledge we have of sport nowdays, its certainly possible to keep going alot longer, there was a guy in Helsinski this year, ran for Israel in the Marathon he was like 50 something and ran sub 2:20 I think!
anything is possible if you put your mind to it!
Thanks for the link! Very interesting again to see the 3000m times (I assume they don't compete beyond 3000m). Again, I wonder what happened to those in 2nd and 3rd place?
Jon Brown won 3000m in 1987.
Paula Radcliffe won 3000m in 1991.
URR- that 299th is very misleading and quoted quite often. The fact is she'd barely started to run at the time from what I read in her book (once a week training), the next year having not altered her training by much mor than training twice a week she was in the top 5.
JP- whilst 8:37 is a fairly quick time for a future marathon runner, is it a fairly quick time for a future marathon WR holder or olympic champ as some of these were?
URR (again!)- totally agree re: the systems. Also how two coaching philosophies can contradict each other and yet still both can achieve great results. THe pro/collegiate was a very strong feature of the book, you always had a sense that Webb would turn pro though. Do you know incidentally how 3 or so year on the other members of the training group, Brannen, McMullen, Sullivan and Broe are doing?
didn't come across as a very confident person. For example, hides before
critical races or avoid confrontation with coach and athletes. The book reveals
actually very little about him. The pro vs. college must have been always
on his mind, maybe it was the uncertainty which put him into his position.
Can only say I enjoy watching Webb racing. I think it was in Helsinki, he did front
run the heats to make sure to make the final, which I believe he missed out
on in Athens, despite being a favourite. I always like when someone does
something special.
Regarding coaching school. For example, Webb broke Ryan's mile record and
Ritzenhein broke Lindgren 5000m record. It is just amazing how many years
it took to break both records. This also reminds me of your XC county
manager's 5000m record, which has not been broken since 1977!!!! The same
person ran in the US collegiate system as well.
Tim Broe - Was injured for a while too, made Athens 5000m final, still based in Michigan
Alan Webb - Clear, pro, coached by Scott Raczko.
Nate Brannen - Stayed at Michigan after Webb moved on, had a great season, tried to
get olympic qualifier for Canada but injured in training
Kevin Sullivan - Turned pro I think, made it to the Sydney Olympics, volunteer assistant coach at Michigan
OK, well my main aim this year is to run sub 2 hour half marathon. My PB is 2:09 which I did at Reading last March. I know I've improved a fair bit since then as I got my 10k time by 11 minutes in a year.
I do belong to a club, but with my new job I find I just can't get there on time anymore, so I'm thinking of not renewing my membership, hence where you're coaching would hopeflly might come in useful.
I reckon I could get out 4 times a week - twice midweek and then Saturday and Sunday - tho for the foreseeable future might not always be able to get out both days at the weekend. But, anyway, I would hope to get out four times a week.
Before December I was doing hills on a Tuesday, intervals on Thursday, 4-5 mile run on a Saturday and a longer run, about 7-9 miles, on a Sunday. I haven't got a haert rate monitor or Garmin and have not intention of buying one.
Is this enough info, what else do you need to know?
I'm doing a half on 22nd January but clearly that will be a (ahem) training run! My next half is 7 Feb which is Watford, my first ever half last year when I ran 2:21 so really hope to better that.
Thanks Micksta
:-)
Is surprising how long it took to break the records! Webb and Ritzenheim are both exceptional talents though. 3:53 for a mile as a high schooler...still seems amazing. That said Ryun hmiself was an exceptional athlete so perhaps it's not that surprising that his record lasted so long! I keep on forgetting just how good my county XC manager was! Just checked his record and he ran 13:26 for 3 miles and that was as a student! That's getting close to a sub 14 5k. Have you any idea just how good he got?
Nice to see that they all managed to still have success despite everything that happened!
Fairly interesting discussion but isn't this Micksta's coaching thread?
Thanks for the information, yes I can give you some help with the coaching side.
I know from other runners that Watford is a reasonbly quick course, so you could get a good time there.
I will do you a program based on the info you have given me, then email it to you and you can let me know what you think?
I am so bored that I've started to put all this year's training sessions onto the PC and am being to plan next year's training.
Micksta,
Will it help you to see this year's efforts before you cast your peepers over next year's?
It could be useful, give me some idea of your current abilities and times achieved etc!
I run 6/7 days per week and have done the last 5 weeks at 50-55 miles with alternating 15 and 20 mile LSDs. I plan 20 miles tomorrow. I am 15 miles per week ahead of last years Mara. I'm 50, RHR is 48 and max is 175.
Any advice would be great.