POSE Method of running?

Monique

GP- I wondered that myself, also I have been putting in a lot of bike miles and a fair amount of swimming, so general fitness is not the issue. Anyway it's all looking more positive for London, If I can find an extra 1mph I've retained my championship place.

[Deleted User]

I have a simple question about this POSE business: has anyone gotten faster from it?  I mean, what better way to evaluate a method than answering such a simple question: are you better now than you were 6 months ago?   I CAN believe that running on the ball of the feet may help prevent injuries, and that’s all fine and good But is that a good enough reason to switch from conventional running, especially if you’re a competitive athlete?

I hope someone has an answer.

Monique

For me it remains to be seen, I am doing better on less mileage., but have yet to race in anything I can compare to previous times.

[Deleted User]

Spudfly: Monique: Where next? Unfortunately I do not know either of you well enough to say, except that Spudfly it seems you are getting on well and just require more patience and time to allow your body to adapt. Yes please email me some video. Monique since you sound like you have the aerobic fitness then  developing your anaerobic tolerance with some threshold work might be the way to go. 20 to 30 minutes at about 90% Working HR for example.

Pietro: The quick answer is yes. However it is not that simple it can take weeks or months to learn POSE and it can take even longer for your body to get used to it. So running PBs just by switching over tend not to happen straight away because it is not a simple switch over. The thing that holds most athletes back is injuries, POSE ruduces the risk and enables faster recovery after racing, this gives you more consistent training which is a major factor in trying to get forever faster. If you are uninjured then it might be better to transition during the off-season rather than interupt your racing. Faster? Yes I can run faster now over 400m than a year ago but slower over the Half Marathon, but I expect to be able to run almost as fast as I could 25 years ago at any distance by later this year, but faster.....??

[Deleted User]

grey, thank you for the return msg and the advise. i must say i find it easier to believe that someone would run the 400m using pose than a 1/2mar, after all it's a short sprint. nnthlss, i wish you great luck in the longer race. further, i think i have a thing to add to this matter. running on one's  forefoot reminds me of those plyometric shoes that came into fashion a few years ago, (and still popular in some quarters). why not design shoes specifically for pose runners, that is, with a low heel and a high forefoot? (unless they exists already and i don't know about them) keeping the heel from far from the ground would be a cinch. (something tells me i many  have given  away a million dollar idea...or may not.)  i have personally tried on my own gizmo. i bought spenco insoles and cut out the back part, and inserted the front part only in my already flat running shoes...i'll see how far i'll go with this crazy idea.   

best regards

[pm]

[Deleted User]

Pietro: Human Beings evolved to run long before they invented running shoes.  POSE is a way of re-learning how to run naturally, Part of this is allowing your feet to land directly under your hips. This means that it is possible to run barefoot on concrete or whatever. It is your achilles and calf muscles that absorb the shock of landing in POSE rather than your knees. Therefore shoes for POSE only need to be as minimal as thin, light and flexible as possible. Any padding under the forefoot would only tend to slow down the reaction of your calves to landing, this reaction is what gets the foot off the ground quickly, which reduces time on support, which helps your feet land under your hips etc, The cut back insoles might be helpful to some in the transition to POSE though, thanks for the suggestion. 

[Deleted User]

caution with your shoes - POSE is about BOF weighting and feeling your weight through the BOF but it does not mean landing and staying on the BOF throughout the gait cycle as this can lead to injury especially if you overstride accidently.

Your shoe are only going to add to the stress on your calf and achilles if you dont let your heels touch at landing - (land BOF but let your heels touch and limtit the stress on the achilles)

[Deleted User]

HI there CT

cabletow wrote (see)

Your shoe are only going to add to the stress on your calf and achilles if you dont let your heels touch at landing - (land BOF but let your heels touch and limtit the stress on the achilles)

Does the "heel touch" apply to all speeds from slow to flat out sprint? Or are you using this "touch" as an indicator of relaxed ankles at landing?

[Deleted User]

 Grey: thank you again for the valuable advice. As they say, you live and learn, not to mention, learning from one's own mistakes. Keep up the good work. Best regards [Pm]p.s. I tried a very slow approach to pose running this weekend, and boy, are my calf sore this morning. I take this  turn of events as a sign of progress. Experience tells me that is only a natural outcome of using muscles differently from what one is used to. I can't wait for the soreness to retreat before I start again...P.P.S. coincidently, I was plagued with Achilles tendonitis and a strange form of tendonitis of the tendon of my big toe (under the arch of my foot) for quite sometimes, years in fact. All types of cures have totally eluded me. I had planned on giving up on running altogether. Pose running seems to have had no effect on aggravating these conditions, (as they would have had if I had run in traditional style) I am hoping this pose business will finally rid me of this plague that I have endured for so long.  AT least I can say that so far so good. I've even had no necessity to apply ice on my tendons for the first in years.

[Deleted User]

Hi GP

AFAIK the heel touch is totally the result of relaxed ankles - If you land far enough under your gcm with enough falling or forward momentum then the heel may not touch - but the idea is that you do not hold it off the ground - doing so will place the calf and the achilles under an eccentric stretch (stretch whilst contracted) - and that ends in tears

[Deleted User]

GP if you review the videos of some of the better known Poeurs you can actually detect a slight heel strike before weighting goes on (look at Dr R run with the class on the DVD and play it frame by frame) but by the time he weights he weights on the BOF.

The other thing to watch out for is when you fall - the heel should remain on the ground slightly rather than start to lift at POSE. Remember the falling drills - you fall from the ankles and do not lift the heel?

[Deleted User]

Pietro: Your slow run sound promising in that you did not need to ice, but the fact that you still ended up with sore calves suggests that your technique is not quite there yet. I suggest to all runners that they buy a skipping rope and learn to use it. Skipping helps build strength,elasticity and foot speed, also forefoot landing and landing under your hips, as well as helping with your upper body posture.

CT: Looking at my footprints after running on wet sand, it appears that my heels touch even though I do not notice it at moderate speeds and that I have to be going fairly rapidly to only show forefoot/toe prints.

Re relaxed ankles. I was working on leg speed this morning doing continuous fast COS, in trying to get my heels to touch bum I found that the slightest tension in my ankles prevented this. whereas releasing any tension enabled me to get my heels right to pelvic bones, This with straight up pulling, not traditional knees down bum flicks. Haven't worked out the why this should be yet, but seems to be worth a bit more thought.

[Deleted User]

CT: That falling drill is one that does nothing for me personally. Fall far enough your heels are going to come off the ground at some point.

[Deleted User]

as a guess - contracted calf and hamstring bash together before heel hits bum - relaxed calf has more room

[Deleted User]

Or relaxed calf means Quads also is more relaxed and allows more flexion

[Deleted User]

add a bit of lower leg momentum and centripedal  force plantar flexing the foot, and you sound about right.

[Deleted User]

Or all of the above!

[Deleted User]

CT: I have a question for you. If you accept that the leg flexors have to be quiet in order to allow your foot to free fall until striking the ground and that the leg has to be fairly rigid in order to fall around the ankle, at what point do the leg flexors come into action? At mid stance POSE? Hmm! Has to be before that as you can't hold a POSE stance without flexors, has to be somewhere between foot touch down and weighting the BOF, what triggers these flexors?

[Deleted User]

Hang on shall I rewrite that ,substitute extensors for flexors. Sillybilly am I. I can hear you thinking "God preserve me from amateurs" from here.

[Deleted User]

Or shouting it at your computer probably!

[Deleted User]

Not quite sure what you are asking but if it is when do the Quads fire to bear your weight then the answer is as soon as you bear your weight as a reflex.

The quads have to be quiet to allow the foot to drop under GCM - Look at Dr R run (he has a fine set of quads) they fire for a split second as he bears weight and relax as he goes to pose. One of the characterisitics of a good pose runner is that this period of Quad contraction is much shorter than "normal" runners.

In fact if you keep the tension in them you cannot pull early enough and you start to extend the knee and push up as your BW passes over BOF.

One of the ways I know I can pull early is feeling the Quads relax

[Deleted User]

Thanks CT: This quad reflex would have to be lightning quick, suggests to me that this is hardwired in and outside conscious control. I am assuming that plyometric training was develeoped to get round this.

[Deleted User]

It is hard wired yes - and you will never lose it - as it is what stops you collapsing when you stand up

[Deleted User]

Grey, et al. you're very correct. The heel does come into play in the running cycle, but it’s as though it is imperceptible. My observation of most elite athletes is that they do a ball-heel-ball strike, which may perhaps explain their elite status. I remember well, that books I’d read on running written as far the 1960’s, and 70’s (I’m 50 y/o) discussed the same running process I just described, e.g. B-H-B. This may have perhaps been largely forgotten along the way when reinforced, high heeled, thick soled shoes came into fashion after that period. My flats in high school, (which were no more than foot gloves) unconsciously forced us to run differently and perhaps correctly, than the present fashionable “boots”.

[Deleted User]

Pietro: In the POSE world we regard standard running shoes as actually detrimental to efficient running technique and although still a bit radical, shoes like these "foot gloves" http://www.fivefingers.co.uk/ are like to become more common in the near future.

[Deleted User]

or  www.jingashoes.com

[Deleted User]

CT: Have you tried the Jinga's, how do they compare?

Here is a shoe that with some development could be brilliant http://www.tjepster.com/feelmax100203L.html

[Deleted User]

They are a bit minimal for me - I do a fair bit of running on fairly stony paths and rural roads and the sole is a bit thin and flexible for me - but for track, road and concrete I bet they are great

[Deleted User]

CT: I'll get me a pair at some stage and give em a try, thanks.

[Deleted User]

I have a pair of size 45 EUR if you want - unworn