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FLM Training: Wardi
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Wardi
Good session.
Your speed has come on and so post London, i'm sure you will run some good times
Unfortunately Wardi, the further the distance and higher position doesn't work at London!
34 M50s broke three hours last year despite the hot conditions
Hey Steve,
Hope all is good with you.
I'm looking to go for sub-3 at this year's FLM, but am wondering whether I am up to it? Training has gone pretty well, with a couple 70-mile weeks, and around 4/5 20-milers at about 7:10 pace.
But the thought of running 6:45's for 26 miles absolutely petrifies me, and it just seems too quick. Unfortunately I haven't been able to squeeze in one proper race at all in preparation, as I've been down for pacing!
Not much to go on, but what do you think?
Cheers,
Neil
And also: what kind of mileage would you suggest for this week and next week?
Neil
Hi Neil
I am in the same boat in that I knew what I should have done but what I have actually done falls well short. In fact I would swap your training runs for mine, any day.
You have sufficient speed to get well under three and you have done a fair amount of 20s and some good overall training mileage. A lot more than me but I'm still confident I'll run ok.
If you had broken three before, I think you would be confident of a good marathon and you should be - I know you have come close but you were capable before and now just need luck, good pacing and conditions.
If I had your ability and training behind me, I would be very very confident of a time in the 2:50s. Yes, I know you haven't run sub 6:50 for that long in training, but rested up, the adrenalin of the day, you should cruise through the first 20 - especially if you run with the pacer.
The last six isn't going to be easy but get to that point in reasonable shape and with a little help from the conditions, the atmosphere, energy gels, crowd, fellow runners, the thought of the excellent training, then i'm sure you'll be fine.
with regards to training - get a nice relaxed run of around 90 minutes or so with a little section at marathon pace. I like to do a fast run in the last 10 days or so (i'm doing a 2.8 mile race tonight and possibly a relay at weekend) and a sharpener on the Tuesday ie 200s but other than it's easy ie 30 mins wednesday, 20 mins thursday.
Thanks Steve.
So if I look at 50-60 miles this week and 30ish next week?
Would you not recommend all MP for a 12 mile run on Sat?
After 2 days of rest and taking lots of oraldene and beechams, I think the throat infection has cleared up. 6 miles today. 1 mile easy 8mm, 6:30, 6:34, 6:06, then 2 miles 8mm home. Feeling much better so should be back on track to complete schedule ready for 13th! I am still hopeful that I can break 3 hours. I've trained better than in 2006 and I only need to be 32 seconds quicker this time! Positive thinking!!
Great speedwork Phil and Wardi.
Neil. I ran 3:00:31 at FLM in 2006 and I did hardly any running at sub 7mm in training. For some reason 6:45 will seem managable on the day even if it does seem too quick now. I felt the same as you, but it just seems to happen on the big day (crowds, adrenalin, other runners around you, and of course a good taper).
Good to hear the lurgy is clearing up gavin.
2.55m club race went well. One of my clubmates - who I haven't beaten for about 5 years - proved to be a good rival during the race and we had a good old ding dong.
The first mile was half flat, half uphill. We were also straight into a stiff south westerley so the time inevitably suffered - 6:33. The 2nd mile is mostly a gentle downhill with a short hill at the end - 5:50 for this one. I surged away from my rival in the last undulating half mile and he didn't respond. 5:56 pace for the last section. Finishing time was 15:47.
Very pleased with that considering my 400m session last night. To be fair my rival had done some tough fell running on Tuesday but still nice to finish in front of him - he is 10yrs my junior and about 3 stone lighter!
My next proper outing is Saturday's 3 mile leg 11 on the Midland road relays. Fun time.
Neil
I know its on the schedule (wouldn't be on mine) and 12M at marathon pace might be ok but I don't think it's worth the risk and it's not really what i consider really tapering.
That distance is ok and a little at marathon pace is fine but I think the two combined is just too much of a risk.
The mileage you have looks about ok. NB you have done loads more miles than I have, have probably similar 5K speed to me and I am still confident of well inside 2:50 so 3:00 shouldn't be a problem for you.
Great run wardi. It shows the speed has come on.
My speed is also there - it's the endurance that's missing. did a 2.8 mile race today and ran 15:30 which is my quickest for 12 years on this course and I won my age group by over 50 seconds.
Thanks for all your advice guys. Bring on the big day!
Steve: well done on the 2.8 miler - brilliant time.
Gavin: good to see you back on track and thanks for the tips.
Wardi: Looks like you're in top shape and ready for it - good going.
One final thing Steve: do you think its wise to set off at 6:45's rather than 6:50's? What pace are you setting off at Wardi/Gavin?
I think 6:50's will be cutting it too fine for the last few miles and doesn't give me much of a buffer.
Neil. I would like to get halfway by 1:28:30-1:29. First half of the course is ment to be only very slightly quicker I think. I am planning to run first half at 6:45-6:48 pace so that I have a minute or so at halfway to play with. The only problem is that I found the first few miles are a problem in that due to the crowds of runners I did 8:45 for mile 1 and 7:27 for mile 2 in 2006 because I got held up by runners around me. I got into 6:45 pace after this (nearly 3 mins behind sub3 pace after 2 miles!). I cant remember which pen I was in, I think it may have been 4, so hopefully I should be in pen 1 or 2 this year and get a better start than that.
If you run at 6:50 pace every mile you will only have a 39 seconds buffer for a sub3. Saying that, some people advise to run a negative split, steady first half 6:50s then pick it up a little in the second half. Personally I feel more confident having a little buffer to eat into if I need to. E.g If I am having a bad mile at say 22, I can afford to run a mile at 7:20 pace and still be under 3:00:00.
I'm really feeling excited about the big day and I keep telling myself that with a better start and i'm sure my training has been better, a sub3 is going to happen this year!!
5 miles today, 1 at MP. I think i'm only going to do 10 miles for my long run and on Saturday rather than Sunday because I think the weather is going to be better, plus an extra day to recover before 13th. 2 miles of the 10 at MP I think will be ok.
8 days, 19 hours and 2 minutes to go (at time of posting)!!!
Neil
I agree in your case, it is best to reach halfway with a slight buffer - 1:28:30 seems about right. It shouldn't make much difference to how you run the last 6.
Of course you could say 1:27 gives you 3 minutes in hand and then you can run 1:33 for the second half but the quicker you go through halfway, the earlier fatigue will set in and the key to breaking three will be getting to 20, still feeling strong - say in 2:16-17 and being able and strong enough to run a sub-43-44 final10K
In my view Wardi with his extra mileage and experience could be slower at halfway - say 1:29:30 as I think he doesn't have your speed but he may have more endurance.
You could run with the RW pacer - I guess the danger there is they might reach halfway in just over 1:30 and they have advertised as running 6:53s (which gets you there 30 secs too slow) but I think it can help take some of the pressure off yourself to follow rather than have to make the pace yourself.
It does get a little crowded around the pacer but it is far easier to follow than any of the other groups
Hi Guys,
Gavin- Glad to hear you are back to good health and straight into some quality training.
Neil- Just recieved my copy of R.W. mag. I noticed your name as the 7 mm pacer for the Blackpool half. If that was you, you should have no problem achieving your desired pacing.
Some good pacing ideas being banded around. My favourite plan is to run bang on 1hr 30 for the first half. Feeling confident that I will then be fresh enough to up the pace for the next 7miles gaining that essentail buffer for the last 10km. However, I know that in reality, I'm more likely to be through halfway in 1hr 25min cursing my own stupidity!
Had a slight knee ache this week, so dusted off the bike for a bit of x-training work. Reckon it should be fixed for tomorrows 12 mile plan including a couple at M.P.
Getting quite excited about the big race now. Can't quite believe how all consuming the whole build up has been.
Enjoy your weekend runs!
As I have never broken 3hrs before I intend to run a controlled race as Steve suggests. Look at any results from recent FLM's - they are littered with runners who got to half way in well under sub 1:30 and ended up with times between 3:00 and 3:15. When I broke 3:15 for the first time I got to half way with only 35 seconds in hand. I ended up running the second half quicker and finishing in 3:12.
I will aim to get to half way as close to 90 mins as possible. I have no idea if this strategy will pay off but I think it is the best approach for me.
Gavin.. pens. I started in pen 2 on blue start in 2002. The first 2-3 miles were a bit congested but after that we were into our stride. If you are in pen 3 for god's sake blag your way into pen 2 at the Expo! Take a recent race time (a half-m is ideal) which shows your capability to join a higher pace pen.
6.2 miles easy tonight. A pleasant steady run after two fast days.
Wardi, I noticed the times at previous LMs too.......it definitely pays to run as even a race as you can.
IMO you know you need to be doing no worse than 6:52s but so long as you're doing 6:45s to 6:52s (and feeling ok) I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest. If you find yourself consistently quicker than 6:45 then you might want to actually focus on your pace.......but if not then just run and enjoy yourself!
Personally I like buffers, and when I eventually attempt a sub 3 marathon I think I'd ideally like to go through half way in about 1:29.....but there's no point in busting a gut to do it if it makes the run uncomfortable. If you end up not going under 3 hours then I doubt it'll matter if you went through half-way in 1:28:30 or 1:29:59. I remember when James Cracknell just missed sub 3, because he went through half-way in something like 1:24......now that's too quick!
Obviously I hope you do break 3 hours though! Good luck!
Mike
Last longish run today. 12.3 with 3 at M.P.(-10 sec). Legs felt really fresh, starting to feel the effects of the taper.
The knee ache has disappeared as well. Just need to don my issue gas mask for the final week to avoid catching a cold off Mrs Phil! Need to be more subtle.... or I'll end up sleeping on the sofa!
More good tactical chat above. Hopefully we can avoid doing a Cracknell. Is he racing this year? He should be brimming with endurance after his row, cycle and swim epic!
Wardi- In your experience, what time do you advise arriving at the start area?
Laters Folks
Mikey.. I tend to be a metronome in the pace dept. Once I get into circa 6:50 mode I promise not to get carried away!
Phil.. I get there early, I normally catch a train at Waterloo 7:15-7:30. After 8am the trains get very crowded indeed. I like to arrive in plenty of time, soak up the atmosphere, get in the loo queue, hydrate etc etc. Good news about the knee BTW.
I've been at work today with a young colleague who seems to catch a cold every month, and you guessed it he's caught another one! I am crossing my fingers and taking echinacea. Why do these people insist on coming to work and spreading it around!
About 12 miles tomorrow morning, the forecast looks to be cold but not too windy.
I've put myself into the isolation ward. Can't be too careful.
I've been to Sutton Park in Brumingham today for the Midland Counties 12 stage Road Relays. Every time I went off for a run I got hailed upon and rained upon. Early warm up, proper warm up, race. It was almost funny. Almost.
Mine was leg 11 out of 12. Although the slowest out of the team by a few seconds, at least I was there on merit because the reserves were a bit orf my pace. Here's the good news: by finishing 13th we've progressed to the Nationals.
Race report?
Partly cloudy, partly showery, occasionally sunny breaks, and periodic hail showers, even a bit of sleet. Lovely. The 4 hour wait for my slot saw me freezing my brasil nuts, hence a few warm up miles. It was also my first visit to the course, so useful to check it all out. Eventually it was my turn, and I had 50-70 metres to chase down. The first mile, uphill, I definitely held station, even closing a bit. (6:22). The second mile along the ridge was into the wind, which increased under the shower clouds, and I definitely made inroads. (6:13). The third mile was downhill and a bit cross country-ish, but target increased his gap. OK I worked the steam train to its fullest (6:05) and finished in a rain shower. Job done. 18:36, so not completely disgraced.
A nice little bit of speed work. Better late than never.
I'm just going to Hi-jack the thead with a brief statement.
DON'T FORGET TO TAKE PHOTO ID TO THE EXPO FOR REGISTRATION.
Bye bye
12.3 miles today (about 7:40 pace) with 1m @ 6:50 pace just to remind me what it feels like. There will now follow a week of not very much, which I always find difficult. Funny how the body gets used to heading out for a run as often as possible then a little voice says 'you can relax now, it's taper time'.
Wardi First of all hope you have a good run next week, I've been reading the thread from day 1 and found it all very interesting.
Thought I could give you a little bit of advice which really helped me go sub 3,use a pace bracelet I picked up one from the Expo,it helped me pace myself easily.
All my 10k splits were within seconds of each other,reached half way in 1.29.30 finished in 2.59.17.
Doing it again this year hoping to go a little quicker.
Last long run done. Still feeling a little out of sorts from throat infection earlier in the week so decided on 10 miles 8 easy and 2 at marathon pace.
Thank goodness it wasn't FLM this weekend looking at the weather in London today. I hope it's going to be a bit better on the 13th!
Have a relaxing week everyone.
Wardi do you know any more about the pens at FLM? What predicted finish time is pen 1, 2, 3 etc do you know? As you know I have a pb of 3:00:31 from FLM in 2006 and I put a predicted time of 2:55 this time I think so would hope to be nearer the front than last time.
Pacing wise, I am edging more towards 1:29:30 at half way now.
Gavin
you should be in pen 1 - I think their cut off prediction time is 3:00.
Well run wardi -
I did a 4.4K relay today - nowhere near level of my Thursday run (blaming it on the cold)
I think I need to do part of my Sunday run tomorrow as so average today and think I need a relaxed longer run
Managed a nice little outing today, 8+ miles at an average 6:51m/m pace. Nice to get the legs turning over properly.
By the way.
Has anybody got a training programme that I could use? I've got a race next week and thought that I ought to start doing something about it soon.
Blisters start the schedule on Saturday - run 25 miles at 7 minute miles and if you can do that you can break 3 hours the next day.
actually seem to recall that was Running Fitness's day one run for their sub 3 schedule about 6-7 years ago and was followed by 20 hills the next day - the start of a near four month schedule and if someone could start the session like that they probably didn't need the other few months!
I see Blisters is suffering from 'notdunenuf' syndrome. A familiar symptom 1 week from a marathon {O:
Ever so slightly leg weary from yesterday's 12 miler so rest today. The rest of the week will look something like this..
Tues.. about 6/7 miles steady
Weds.. 5m inc. a few 200 or 400m intervals
Thurs.. 4/5m easy
Fri.. rest & travel to London
Sat.. 2.5-3m easy in the morning
Sun.. light the blue touch paper!
What is everyone else doing this week?
Hi Wardi. My final week looks something like this (i'm not doing very much at all):
Monday 4 miles (8m/m)
Tuesday 4 miles including something like 8 x 200m at 6:30ish
Wednesday 4 miles easy
Thurs Rest
Friday Rest and travel to London after work arrive 9-10pm.
Sat 1- 2 miles easy
I have set myself 3 targets for the big day: 3:00:00 = Not happy, 2:59:XX = very pleased, 2:58:XX = great!
Thanks for the advice about the start Glenda. I'll try not to weave in and out too much and not twist my ankle jumping on and off pavements. Patience is the key!