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Dartmoor Discovery
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Diary date depends on my wife's choir commitments. I will seriously consider it as will also be doing the Two Bridges.
Sorry, Muzza, but I only had real ale - you can't drink lager at the Rugglestone! I guessed you were one of the 3 Bideford lads but I didn't know which one - you all looked in great shape at 20 miles.
Shades, you'll have to remind me of that date again when I get my 2004 diary for Christmas! Both Gary & me were saying we'd like to do it next year as we watched everyone go past with big smiles on their faces, but it was probably the beer talking!
What with our ladies scooping the team prize at Crewkerne today, should be an evening of presentations on Wednesday.
Don't worry Dunnarunner, we will remind you and Gary (even if it was the beer talking). Skins tells me Chairman Rog is going to do it too, can we find a 3rd Trottette, that's the big question?
Looks like all the Trotters improved their times this year (I've just had the results emailed to me).
Now, who's for the Two Bridges? I will start a thread soon if there isn't one already, 35 miles, but nothing like as hilly as Discovery.
Liz - Are you home safe & well?
Might have to do this next year though, my baseline fitness wont let me do 35 miles yett
How does this one compare with last week. I see you managed 6:44 vs 9:20 last week, about 10 mins slower than last year at Marlborough. I made my ultra debut last week at Marlborough thinking that it wouldn't be too far beyond a marathon. But this differential seems pretty dramatic for only a couple of miles further. I know it was hot, almost windless and sunny (I had a suntan through my vest where my hrm belt was!). On the other hand I was staggered by how folks appeared to be dropping like flies as the race wore on. Did you notice that of the 11 retirees (when you would normally expect one or two), none were female!
Ye.
PS - sorry for talking about Marlborough on this discovery thread...
What a superb event - fantastic course, a lot tougher than I expected but the organisation and the support were first rate. Enjoyed the friendliness and camaraderie - was good to meet a few people, names to faces etc.
Felt comfortable running on past the marathon marker (3:23:29) - into new territory for me. Started very conservatively and tried to maintain equal effort throughout. Only uncomfortable time was a stitch at 30K. Eased back a little and reduced the fluid intake. Was in 6th and 7th places for a while. Don't know where the energy came from but still felt good over the last six miles - enjoyed seeing the countdown boards to the finish - managed to get up to 5th. Had a bit left in the legs towards the finish - flew up the last hill, could see the 4th placed guy ahead of me but by that time had run out of road.
Was good to meet Bruce Tulloch at the finish and in the evening as well - had met him before at the London Marathon Expo, very nice man and his book (Running for Over 40's) well worth reading.
Shall never forget my first ultra experience, this is a "must do" run for any one interested in stepping up to ultras, am looking forward to the Two Bridges now.
Discovery is a road race, marshalls, drink stations and timekeepers every 10k.
I always judge the severity of a course by the winner's time Marlb. 4.50 (approx) Discovery 3.44.
I think men drop out of races more easily than women as they seem to be more competitive. If they feel they're having a bad run they just want to call it a day, and perhaps not show a poor time. My attitude is not to get too disappointed if things start to go wrong, and just carry on, you often feel better later on in the event, and there's always another race day.
I think it's a great mistake to pull out unless you are really ill/injured. I have only pulled out of one marathon, and it took me a further 3 runnings of that particular marathon before I could comfortably go round that course without thinking of dropping out, just had this mental barrier about this particular event. A big part of marathon and ultra running is the ability to keep going through a bad spell, you will get through it, and you will feel stronger for doing so. Timothy is the experienced ultra runner amongst us, do you agree Timothy?
have you built that trophy cabinet yet?
I'm really surprised that off road & self navigation makes such a difference. But then I happily memorise route instructions and map topography before such races - and recall them even when totally knackered! I managed 4:55 at Marlborough, but I don't reckon that I'd get under 4 hours at the Discovery based the number of hills described I reckon the ascent is about the same.
I thought Marlborough would be an easy ultra intro - but looking at the times its clear that the Discovery would be a better 1st choice as Liz suggested. That's not saying Marlborough is bad, I thought it was great and would thoroughly recommend it to anyone wanting more than just a straight forward running experience.
Ye.
You looked in good shape after your run (in fact all the members of your team did) - well done to WRN on your team prize.
The ultra-marathon is definitely going to be my event. I had no idea how things would go. Am glad of all the advice on this thread from experienced ultra runners (Tim et al).
Glad I started conservatively I once knew a very experienced ultra-distance runner in his 60's - he would say try and run as relaxed as you can - don't go chasing the course, try and let yourself flow and the course will come to you. His words were ringing in my ears and I was suprised at how readily those countdown boards over the last 5 miles seemed to come.
The legs are a lot better than they should be (will be eternally grateful to the masseurs at the finish). Yesterday afternoon managed to run (actually more of a walk, shuffle, jog) a very slow and easy 4 miles - may try and get out this evening for a similar session although a walk may be all I might manage.
Enjoyed meeting up with people, some familiar faces from other events and some not so familiar. I think what helps to make this event is that it is so friendly with plenty of encouragement all round.
Shades, I agree re. comments about men going off more competitively. Too much testosterone you know!
I tried it once. My best halfway distance in a 24 hour race followed by my 2nd worse finishing distance!!
the other thing Graham is you'll see people doing lots of ultras, like marathons its hard to do too many "flat out" but you can quite often run more relaxed and enjoy them as a long run rather than a race.
Last year I did my fastest marathon of the year a week after the Two-Bridges but they were both training runs for London to Brighton where I made the real effort.
Incidently, approx 100 starters for Discovery, 9 dropped out mostly due to injuries. (Higher drop out rate than usual, unless the weather is very bad).
Graham
Thanks, I too felt really good in the last few miles and managed to move up 5 places over the last 3 miles.
I fully endorse what SHADES said earlier about having difficult phases during marathons & ultras ... if you place limits for yourself (time / how you feel / your position in the race) you may be in danger of giving up or pulling out. That was my 14th marathon (incs 4 Ultras) and I still had a new experience regarding the way I felt - and it did cross my mind that I had a stress fracture in my left foot ... although the 3rd 10k is the toughest part of the course, the 4th 10k was the worst part for me this time and I walked loads of it (the heat?) and the foot hurt.
I stopped to get a couple of photos at the M point, then forced myself to do some steady running - and seemed to pick up again.
Felt great over the last 10k and could've carried on after the Finish!!
It was my most ENJOYABLE Discovery - enhanced by knowing more people, this thread inc all the help and advise, the fabulous weather (I felt I'd seen the splendour of Dartmoor really for the first time) oh and the disco - and Phil Hampton is such a great guy! and all the helpers, what a team!
Nope - Toasted over the last section by the chap who came 2nd in the National 50km, he put over 3 minutes between us over those last 3.3 downhill miles as I hit the wall. But the wall wasn't bad, legs were fine just energy in short supply. I guess the slower overall pace meant muscle damage was reduced in comparison to an all out marathon.
I had planned to go for 4:44, but the heat, the damned heat! At least having some early splits based on previous results meant that I could try to run slowly enough early on to delay the blow out.
With a marathon PB of seconds under 3 hours I was pleased to be within 3 mins of a 2:32 marathoner and 27 mins in front of 2:53 & 2:43 marathoners (I did panic slightly when I walled thinking that I wouldn't be able to hold on to 2nd!). It will be interesting to see split results when Tim sends them out to see how far in front the leaders were at the various checkpoints. They blew up quite spectacularly.
I don't know whether I prefer on or off road, both have their place. I guess there is the satisfaction of going faster on the road, but off road there is a lot less damage done & scenery tends to be better. The route finding off roaders provide a lot of fun for the mind to get involved with as well.
How many of the 9 DNF'ers in the Discovery were male?
Ye.
Tim, thanks for your advice - the fact that I enjoyed the event so much was largely down to being able to enjoy those last few miles. Despite my tired legs am already looking forward to the next ultra experience.
I probably shan't do Marl. again, have done it twice, I did it this year as I am cramming in the races to reach my 100th marathon by August, so will cut down races after that and do mostly road, I just find the off road too difficult for me. In case you think I'm really lazy, I did go and run Lake Vyrnwy day after Marl. and finished 23 minutes slower than my marathon PB, so was pleased with that.
If you read through this forum you will see that Graham, who earlier said he usually runs his marathons in sub 3.10, ran the Discovery as his 1st ultra, finished in 4.12 and 5th place. I saw him at the presentation, and he didn't look as if he'd been out for a run at all and he was walking normally.
So I think you could be very close to 4 hours, are you going to try the Two Bridges?
I think the DNF's at Discovery were probably all male, I didn't hear of any women dropping out, but can't verify that.
I know you're a nutter and I saw you did Vyrnwy the next day! Words cannot describe the disbelief - Are you sure there isn't more than one running with your name?
In fact, why don't we all join in and enter our next race as Shades?
Funny you should mention that Graham was walking normally - I reckon that my recovery is going faster than a normal marathon - I put it down to the slower pace. I also seem to recover quicker after a poor marathon (walling or slight illness). Again I'd put that down to not having the energy left at the end to break the body down when it has less ability to cope.
Not really sure about running longer a than a marathon on the road, but I do have local accommodation available close to the Two Bridges.. We'll see.
Perhaps we should get RW to write an article on the weaknesses of men!
Ye.
If you are not sure about a road ultra, I would wait for next year's Discovery, at least it is a beautiful course, the weather gave us stunning views this year. Sadly, apart from the Forth Rd Bridge, the 2 Bridges cannot really be described as scenic, although it is a great race.
I had to write to Phil and Thank him and all the other dedicated folk without whom there would be no event!! Finally got the email together and he's responded already, bless him, he's now getting the split times together
There will be a big write-up in the Plymouth Evening Herald, he said - I guess we'll have to access that on-line if we aren't "local"
Keep posting the messages, makes very interesting reading about other runners experiences
SHADES - I did imagine that IF I COULD POSSIBLY GET TO THE ISLE OF MAN I would run with you during your 100th (like several did with Robbie Wilson for his 200th at Kingston last Oct) but it looks like you are getting faster - and, like you and Yimothy said - doing the extra marathons doesn't necessarily make you more worn out and slower - in your case you seem to have gone from strength to strength