Sub 3h15



  • BB - I am still in shock and awe after reading about your marathon preparation. How are you feeling now, physically and mentally? I mean, with the right rest and recovery, if you were of a mind to you could build on that training and do something really spectacular. Also, how did you decide on a target pace? You must have been whistling all the way round...

    MsE - Very sad, and now we're going to get all the theories of how running is bad for you - from the usual fat-arses, of course.

    6 miles @ 6:44mm this morning. It felt quite hard towards the end, not leasdt because I think I was over-dressed...

    October stats are a bit underwhelming but reflect a HM DNF and a 10k race:

    140.4 miles, av.7.17mm, off 19 outings.

    Stepping it up in November to 5 days/week.

    Good luck, AR!!


  • Just answering a few more questions and giving some explanations –

    It’s funny how I never considered my training to be hardcore. I just started adding in a few doubles, then extending the morning mileage and the overall mileage just kept creeping up. Once I got into the high 80’s I just had to add a few more miles daily to break the 100 mile barrier.

    I’ve recovered very well after the marathon with only slight stiffness in my legs. Unlike previous marathons I never had to walk down stairs sideways a few days after! It appears that the higher mileage makes the recovery easier.  Or should that be the higher mileage makes my legs stronger?image

    I decided on a target pace for Dublin from my recent half marathon performances.  My recent best of 1:21:51 suggests a 2:52:15 marathon according to the McMillan calculator. However, that HM was on a fast flat course with perfect conditions (Dublin wasn’t) and I’ve found in the past that McMillan marathon predictions were a little too quick. So I settled on aiming to run about 2:54.

    I haven’t run since the marathon but plan some easy miles tomorrow. So that will be 4 full days without running and I’m already chomping at the bit to get out again. Mentally, I feel fantastic and making plans already for my next challenge.

    I think I’ll concentrate on XC and 5k Parkruns over the winter and try to improve my speed a little. I’d like to break 18 minutes for a Parkrun soon and get close to 80 minutes for a HM next year.

    However, I’ve just this morning signed up for the 100k Portumna Forest Ultra Marathon next June!

    Minni – I turned pescetarian in 2009 as a new year’s resolution. Within about a month I found I had so much more energy I took up running and look at me now! I stopped eating fish in 2010 to become a vegetarian. I still ate a lot of cheese but last year began cutting back slowly. This year for another new year’s resolution I became completely vegan and have maintained it without difficulty. I enjoy cooking, baking and make my own bread and wine.

  • Frankfurt: course isn't wildly scenic, but then again nor is VLM.  It's generally fast, with no significant inclines (one underpass, IIRC); the first and last few km are a little bit twisty, but in themselves not worth that many extra seconds.  By all accounts we were unlucky with the wind this year.  The organisation is good: the Expo is painless and you can just collect your number and go, without traipsing round a load of stalls a la VLM. I think transport is fairly efficient, but we were staying within walking distance of the start/finish, so I don't know.  Only bugbears were not enough toilets (well, not as far as I could find!) and a bit difficult to get into the start pens, so I'd probably get there 90 minutes before the gun next year rather than 1 hour.

  • Hi, sorry to barge into your thread - I was wondering if any of you experienced marathon runners could give me some advice please? I'm doing my second marathon next week, and I'm undecided about pacing. I followed the P&D up to 55 schedule, the paces were based on my most recent races. I had no probs hitting the 5k pace, or the tempo pace but my marathon paced runs were a bit hit and miss. At the end of Sept I ran a 1.27xx half (not a PB) which suggests that I can run 3.10ish...but I don't know if that conversion is realistic. So should I aim for 3.15 and run with the pacers, or be more ambitious? Of course I might not keep up with the 3.15 pacers... 

  • October stats:

    220.19 miles, 27 running days, 4 rest days.

    1,662.82 miles for 2013, I am aiming for 2000 so I need 1,666.67 by the end of October so almost on target. This is my biggest October, need to be cautious and just do the same in November and December and not try to do too much as I don't want a protracted campaign.

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    Hilarious! In comparison I'm a total lazy slob! , My October reads - 13 runs 78 miles 18 rest days (although there were some spinning sessions and core strength gym sissions in there).

    Seems I need to buck my ideas up. Mind you, I'm fairly pleased with my pacing at the moment (19.46 for a 5k on a TM last week) and I make sure each session counts quality wise - LSR, Hill strength,  Intervals or tempo. so, I'm not too worried about lack of volume just yet as I don't start training proper until Decemeber.


  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    As you say, looks a bit breezy for Sunday TR, although dry. Is it the infamous orange singlet this weekend, or the Xempo top? Will try to say a quick hello if I spot you. Main objective is to beat my training partner from work! Should be 2-3 mins ahead, but all bets are off, and the pub's firework display tomorrow night may be less than ideal pre-race preparation. image

  • My stats are for October - Not a clue!

    Abbers  - it's f-ing windy here at the mo and glad I'm not racing this weekend. Good luck on Sunday you never know you might suprise yourself.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    hello Velloo.  In what way have your MP miles been hit and miss?  Too fast, too slow, too something else?  I don't really have any problems running MP in training but I know a lot of other people do.  I don't know if its because it is a bit harder than easy but not hard enough to leave you worn out so its quite hard to judge.  It sounds like your speed is all sorted and do you feel like you've got he endurance to take a faster pace all the way?  I'd say you will have no problems sticking with sub 3:15 pacers (if that's what you want to do), so you could start with them then push on from 16 or so, if you feel you can?   Its better to speed up than slow down. image

    SB I'd be starting to build those miles up now otherswise your body is in for a shock in December! 

    TR/Abbers - which race is it on Sunday?


  • Hello Velloo I've run a 3:10 marathon of the back of 12week P&D upto 55 mile plan.  I could hit all the paces except I had to stop and take a break in some of the tempo runs and extended the recovery of intervals.  Personally I think that was due to high heat in the summer whilst preparing for an autumn marathon.  Personally I think the MP sessions were the key to me running that speed as they prepared me for extensive periods of running at that pace.

    My half PB is 1:33 so the calculators say I shouldn't be able to run a marathon in 3:10.  Then again I'm not so fast as some guys here


  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    MsE, I have to say, as a bit of a fan of American sports in particular, I envy their autumn seuquence of Halloween, Thanksgiving and then Christmas. Seems like one long party, often tied in with big NFL games.

    Jools, how are the legs after your Frankfurt heroics?

    Minni, it's the Lordshill 10 miles on Sunday. Lordshill is a suburb on the western edge of Southampton, so the route goes into the leafy lanes of rural Hampshire and takes in part of the Broadlands estate. Gets a bit more mundane around 8 miles with a loop of a business park, but mostly quite pleasant. It's one of the Hampshire Road Race series, so quite a club feel to it, and a fair few quicker runners in evidence from Winchester/Southampton/Salisbury.

  • First run planned for tomorrow, in my pretty RED Xempo top image  Getting a bit twitchy now after 5 days' rest and quite looking forward to it.

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Abbers - I have just de-haunted the house and am exhausted.  The thought of Thanksgiving makes me want to cry now.  I also have 4 very overtired, sugar-laden children, the eldest of whom admitted he tried to put on his swimming trunks for school this morning and only realised his error when he was putting his feet into his wetsuit. image

    Do you think it is worth entering Frankfurt, Jools? I am really hoping we are back in the UK by then and would like to have an autumn marathon to train for.  I managed a grand total of 151.59 miles in October (go me!), and together with 15-20 hours of The Dailey Method (a ballet/pilates/yoga/core conditioning class) feel like my body is getting more resilient after the long lay-off.


    Welcome, Velloooooooo.  Sounds like you are all set (as they say round these parts) for a good sub-3:15 marathon with a view to speeding up towards the final 10K and possibly a -3:10 if all goes well.  Do you have a plan A, B (and possibly, C)?

  • I think a thread outing to Frankfurt 2014 in preparation for the thread outing to Comrades 2015 sounds like an excellent idea, MsE.  I'm also relieved that Minni didn't quite blow my cover by mentioning Comrades on FB - I get enough stick for running marathons from my club and so am a bit apprehensive about how that particular plan will be received...

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    MsE - when do you hope to be back? 

    Abbers - sounds fast! My cousin lives between Southampton and Winchester So know the area a bit. Good luck to you and TR. 

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    lol Jools! I know exactly what you mean!! Now what better way to prepare for that Autumn marathon then on to the C-word than the TR? Just wondering if MsE will be back by then too.....

  • Minni - thanks for reminding about TR as well. Have you got yourself a copy of Noakes's bible yet?

    TR - Good luck with the sub 60 attempt!


  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    Abbers - I run in my singlet once a year, all other races (except tris) are T shirt, footy style shorts, and cap. I dont want to be mistaken for a proper runner ! I'll wear the red Xempo T shirt. looks like the wind might scupper the sub60, but as long as its still for Gosport in 2 weeks. I want to get a further under the 80 there.

  • Thanks Minni, bike it & MsE!

    Minni the MP runs were mostly too slow but sometimes too fast, it's a pace I just couldn't dial into.

    MsE plan C is not to finish injured or in an ambulance!
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    velloo - which marathon? Are you doing the borders XC this year? 

  • It's Nice...

    Should make some of the borders xc after the marathon all going well.

    Are you doing it?
  • Welcome Velloo - I would aim to go through halfway in 1:35 and hang on to that pace for as long as possible. The longer you can, the more confident you'll feel and I bet you surprise yourself.

    Badbark - At the risk of going on about it, what pace were you doing the mile reps at? And when you talk about an easy pace, how easy was it?

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Ah Nice, that's nice velloo. Since the series is pre-entry only and I haven't got one I won't be doing any. I can't believe how much it must have grown in the past couple of years that they only take pre-entries.  It'll be a ballot before long! 

  • moofmoof ✭✭✭

    Hi Velloo, you'll have a decent chance of sub 3.15 if you've done the miles. I ran a 3.10 based on a 1.26 HM and I don't think I convert too well from half times to full.

    Badger- I agree with Minni, you'd be better off getting the miles in your legs now before the mara programme starts, leave the speed work for a while until you get the miles up.

    Get me, giving tips!


    138 miles (26.2 were bloody hard though)

    1 PB , have I not mentioned that to anyone on here? Pretty sure I've told / bored everyone else in my life with my new PB.....have I mentioned PB!

    Only a couple of runs and a bike ride so far this week, hopefully I'll get out for a couple of nice easy runs over the weekend.

  • Did Moof get a pb or something?

    83m in Oct, but half the month was lost to injury. Back to African training camp now so it's stay indoors and brave the treadie for a bit image

    Good luck for anyone racing this w/e

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Right girls (Minni and Jools) - let's pinkie promise to aim for Frankfurt 2014 and Comrades 2015. OK? Good. With any luck I will be back in Europe in time for all those shenanigans image

  • Ant - steady progress.
    velloo - welcome to the thread. Sorry, I'm not an experienced marathon runner, but I'm sure you'll get lots of sensible advice from those who are!
    PMJ - good miles and nice stats. Clearing out the cupboards yesterday I came across a photo of you in an old school magazine with an article on the sailing club. I was going to scan it and post it up but the quality is pretty dire, so it's a lucky escape for you!
    Moof - did I miss your PBimage
    16 slow miles to round off another week - 56 miles in total. Next week I get to increase the long run to 17 miles image

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Welcome Velloo- stick around, we have some talent here and lots of good advive.

    Tired from a long jouney home from Switz. and 4 miles skipping on the beach last night. Let's see what parkrun brings...

    Your 1/2 M times are similar to mine Badbark- but like moof I'm not great on the conversion to full marathon- but then I only run 40 miles a week image.

    Good miles there Gul- best not go in those old cupboards- never know what you'll find.


  • Go on Gul, have a scan if you can. My wife found this one of me from 1991:

     Badger, and others, I do agree that the real thing for the marathon is miles and not fast miles. A 3:15 marathon is 7:26 pace and in reality that is not a fast pace for anybody on this thread: the issue is keeping it up for 26.2 miles.

    I am not in full training until Jan but between now and then I will build up miles so the body is used to doing such. I basically do a couple of longer runs a week all year so when out of marathon training these are in the 10 to 13 mile range. I then grow one of them so by the end of this year I will be doing one  in the 10 to 13 range and one up towards 20 miles, then in the campaign itself will take that 20 to 21 or so but bring the other up to 13 to 16 miles.

    Speed I don't overly worry about. I am aiming for just inside 6:30 pace and I know that is a pace my legs can do easily and I will run a lot of miles in XC and parkrun way faster than that.

  • Ant van Oviedo wrote (see)

    Badbark - At the risk of going on about it, what pace were you doing the mile reps at? And when you talk about an easy pace, how easy was it?

    Ant - I was aiming for 5:55 minute mile pace average on the mile reps which is my 10k PB pace. I did the reps in 5:56, 5:52, 5:52, 5:58 and 6:02 with 2 mins at around 8:00 pace recoveries.

    I run my easy runs to feel with my HR averaging about 125 – 130 (my max is 175). The pace would usually start around 9 minute mile pace and maybe finish around 8:15 pace. However some days I might never get faster than 8:30 pace and others average closer to 8.

    When running easy I concentrate more on my cadence which I try to keep close to 180 and also try to mid foot strike.

    Vello – Wecome! I converted a 1:26:48 half into a 3:09:57 full marathon in 2011 off about 40 to 50 mile training weeks. So I think you are around the right level but it all depends on how hard you want to work. You should manage a sub 3:15 with a little to spare but a sub 3:10 attempt will hurt. A lot! image

    OO50 – I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. I don’t think 100 mile weeks make me much faster, but they do make the conversion from half to marathon closer to what the calculators predict.

    After all I’ve only improved my half PB this year by 1:09 but my full marathon PB is now 15:50 faster.

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