Sub 3h15



  • I desperately need to do some proper mileage again. I'm currently 3kgs over race weight, and boy do I know about it when I try to run at speed! Plus my trousers are getting tight. Time to stop having a nice rest it seems.

  • 5.5 miles for me tonight at a sedentary 8mm pace. Took a few miles to get warmed up and more worryingly my knee problem that ruined my autumn mara was bothering me for the first mile or so. Nice to get out though and last couple of miles felt good.

    PMJ - I see that the top 400 runners in the Ageo half ran under 70 mins! A sobering stat is that of the top 500 mens marathon times 432 are African, 32 European (Jones of course being the quickest), 12 are Japanese,10 RSA, 7 USA and then a few other random nations make up the numbers with approx 235 being current and 227 of them are African! The Japanese are definitely next in the elite rankings as a nation but where is the next challenge coming from right now other than Mo who should run a quick marathon providing he can make the step up in distance. The American Ryan Hall seemed to be the only Non African that could match these guys, but at 31 now and two years since finished a marathon it is doubtful whether he will get back to that level. Would be great to see someone make a breakthrough in one of these big marathons.

    SG - Ditto, I am carrying about 3.5kgs excess at the mo and it's not even xmas yet.image 

    I have never experimented or given much thought to my diet, maybe it's time I should.

  • 7 miles this morning @ 7:05mm, and just starting to feel as though I might actually have some running in me yet.

    I'm 86kgs (1m92cm) and by VLM fully expect to get down to 80. How? By being stricter with beer and chocolate, cutting out biscuits completely and by running 55-70 mpw over a 16-week period.

    Yes, the Japanese have massive strength in depth. It surprised me to hear there is hardly any prize money in races over there, so maybe it comes down to their just wanting it more than we do.

    Speedy - Careful, or those tighter trousers will lead to getting your arse pinchedimage

  • x-post - meant Jonesy is still fastest British marathon runner.

  • PMJ - the most impressive bit for me apart from the numbers was the fact that most of them were students, hence under 21! In the UK hardly anybody under 21 runs that kind of distance.

  • In Spain, hardly anybody under 21 walks anywhere, let alone runs.

  • Abbers - nice 10 miler. Hope Mrs A is improving rapidly.
    GM - hope the knee is OK.
    Ant - tidy 7 miler.
    Here on my estate, hardly anyone travels that far running, walking or otherwiseimage
    4 miles @ 8:59 m/m.

  • I often  run past a school on the Tamagawa river in Japan, just south of Tokyo.  Early morning between 7-8 there are training groups for running as well as other sports.  The coach is there and they are well organised.  There is about 40 boys in the group.  They will jog together around the baseball pitch for an hour.  Or they will do a warm up and then a tempo run along the path by the river.  They are boys in the range 12-16 and probably all of them kick my ass in a tempo run. They are there most days.  I expect that the same pattern is repeated up and down the country. I bet they are competing as well at that age. My conclusion is that it is culturally driven - running is a popular sport - kids and adults create these groups - they compete and get better and the top guys end up running 2:08 maras or 63 halfs.  It a numbers game really. 

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    I listened to an interview on MT yesterday on my 5am (YES - 5AM!!) run re the Japanese runners.  Very interesting.  They have their kids running 5k and 10ks at a young age and soon progress onto HMs. 

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    I've tried running in Tokyo once but got fed up stopping for traffic lights.

    another poor week running wise but rest is no bad thing.

    Dare I ask why you were up at 5am Minni?  

  • 7 miles at 7:55 pace. Longest run for 3 months - happy daysimage


    Glad to hear things are back on track Bike It. Are you living out in Japan these days?

    Nice early start there Minni. What age do they "allow" kids to run 10Ks and HMs in Japan? I remember doing a half when I was about 15 but looking at the entry forms for most races it seems that you have to be 16 to run 10Ks let alone HMs.

    I honestly don't fret too much about weight as I seem to fluctuate between 70 and 72kg (I'm about 5ft 11) which I think is about right. Still allows the opportunity to at chocolate, but I've really cut back on beerI was probably about 10kg heavier before I started running and I'm always pleased when I look at photos from that time.

    Week 1 of the 20 week VLM plan this week and I'm going to be putting my faith in Fitzgerald again. Bit of hill work early in the week and a 9.5 miler this morning. Am managing to avoid an underground fare (£2+ for one stop!) on a crowded train by running a couple of miles from Clapham Junction to the office and back which provides a good opportunity for some nice easy runs (if I leave on time) or short tempo work if I'm less organised! Aiming for building to around 55/60 miles in the peak week in a bid to get the elusive 3:0x time.

  • I just visit Japan a lot Lozenro - I stay at a hotel that is about 1km from the river which has a generous flood plane and paths at the upper and lower level - no need to stop at the lights that way (once I get there).  

  • Did one of my monthly handicaps yesterday: just over 3.2 miles and they paces came out as 6:01, 5:58, 5:55 and 5:42 for the odds and sods so a nice progressive run, getting faster as I go but probably due to seeing people ahead and chasing them down rather than any actual pacing on my behalf. The handicap has an odd scoring table with merit points: one for running and then handfuls for other categories in the old F1 "winner takes all" style so some months it is one point and other I get ten, so in 4 years I have accumulated 56 points compared to the leader who is over 600 points, so another 40 years or so will see me at the top of the table. One of the hard things is that David Cox also runs these who is a great V60 athlete, but also most likely the unluckiest as his run at Cabbage Patch 10, 58:59 for a V60, only got him second in age category as the winner was Martin Rees who set a new age group world record.

    8 at lunchtime today, then looking to do 18 tomorrow late Gul o'clock (so 7 am) as the first step to 20 before Christmas.

  • Lorenzo - What is this Fitzgerald you speak of?

    Bike It - Good work!

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    Nice going Bike It, building up nicely.

    Did my hilly 6 miler today, just under 400ft of elevation. Went with a colleague and we chatted all the way but worked hard up the hills. Averaged 7.22 pace which was a real surprise, well sort of. My course PB is 7.21 pace for that route but I I felt really strong today, even had to hold back on the downhills as I didn't want my mate chasing hard and hurting himself as he's now in taper for the Pisa marathon in 3 weeks. We both performed well and I'm hoping he can post a good number in Pisa.

    Getting my easy pace 10 miler out of the way tomorrow night as I have a major beer up in Borough Market on Saturday image


  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    Ridiculously early run there Minni. Why so early?

    Lorenzo; training started for VLM? Are we there already? Gulp. Good running.

    Congrats to BI on gradually uping the miles again. Keep healthy!

    Good running from PMJ and SB too.

    Going to be a blank couple of days here, but then back to it over the weekend. Not quite the solid base building I had hoped for over the last few weeks, but sometimes life gets in the way, and I would rather it happened now than from Jan-April!

  • Ant - Matt Fitzgerald: Run Faster

    Abbers - fraid so. Put another way, less than 140 days!!

    SB - good going. Sounds pretty hilly. 

    PMJ - impressive stuff sir. Sounds an interesting scoring system.

  • Bike It - that must be quite an inspiring sight. Great to hear the come-back is going strong.
    Minni - nice early start.
    Lorenzo - 20 weeks to VLM! Good target mileage.
    PMJ - good lunchtime racing - have you set off on your long run yet?
    SB - good running. Enjoy the beer.
    Up very early to make Mrs GD a cuppa, so decided to head on out for my steady run straight afterwards. 11 miles @ 7:15 m/m which is a bit more sensible than last week but still a bit quicker than planned.

  • Interesting discussion about diet but I’d be very careful of following anything that Noakes recommends. He’s an expert in running but his theories about diet are very controversial. There are lots of articles online debunking his theories and here’s one worth a read –

    Personally I wouldn’t be prepared to risk my long term health just to lose a few lbs. I can lose weight easily by running a few extra miles and eating a bit less!image

    On a lighter note I’m glad to report I broke the 3000 mile barrier for the year this week. Run Badbark Run!image


  • Interesting article Badbark.  I couldn't find any quoted evidence from scientific studies though.  For example there are evidence based studies here that there is no negative health impact to eating saturated fat:

    Meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies evaluating the association of saturated fat with cardiovascular disease

    Dietary intake of saturated fatty acids and mortality from cardiovascular disease in Japanese: the Japan Collaborative Cohort Study for Evaluation of Cancer Risk (JACC) Study

    The concept that saturated fat is unhealthy all started, of course, with the infamous Ancel Keys and his Seven Countries Study, which tracked the fat consumption and heart disease levels of various nations. It was named for the seven countries that saw an increase in heart disease cases correspond with increased fat consumption.  Conveniently he removed the data from 15 other countries that he had access to but would have disproved his theory that fat intake causing heart disease. Bad science in action.


  • If you listen to TalkUltra there has been a lot of discussion on fat to carb ratio influencing endurance - based on this (and the info from the myfitness app that Minni suggested ages ago) I deliberately aim to keep the carbs down a bit. Just subtle changes in ensuring that meals have plenty of protein and fats lobbed in can skew the numbers nicely and I have noticed a definite leaning out, fewer hunger pangs and even more stability in my weight (regardless of training volume). I'm typically hitting 40-45% calories from carbs, 15-20% from protein and the rest as lovely lardy fat.

    Badbark! 3000miles! That's very far!

  • Big mileage landmark Badbark - that is a lot of trainers (according to the maufacturers!).

    I am that carb junkie. 65 - 70% carbs, 20% fat, and about 15% protein. I have fallen off the wagon recently due to a very tasty white sourdough loaf being too readily available. So processed carbs are fighting their way back into my diet

  • I am very slovenly when it comes to diet and eat what I want when I want with impunity as I tend to maintain the same weight. Pretty sure reduced alcohol and better quality diet would improve my running but I like beer and rubbish food.

    Badbark- that some mileage. BI - good to hear, good running PMJ, Gul  and SB

  • I've noticed no negatives from reducing my carbs, and I haven't found it that difficult to be honest, but, as I said, I haven't really been training since I started. The biggest difference I've noticed is that I'm not getting the highs & lows I used to get, particularly the major hunger that I used to get in the morning for example. I haven't totally excluded carbs, but those I eat are as natural as possible, and the end result is that I eat very little processed food and I would guess my sugar intake has probably dropped substantially. I haven't had any pasta in a year, and just about the only bread & cakes I've had have been at post-race catering. It's interesting when you start reading labels looking for sugar content - quite often the 'healthy' low fat version of something has way more sugar than the full fat version, which just shows how the food industry (and Governments) have conditioned us to regard fat as the enemy rather than sugar.

    10.22 miles last night average 8:05. It was fairly comfortable from the hips up, but to be honest it was 5 miles too far given how my legs were after the XC on Sunday. When I hit the hill at 5 miles I was really struggling with my quads and IT bands - not hurting but tired and not feeling quite right, and then literally 150m from my house the centre of my right calf started to hurt and is now very painful. So it looks like my full training comeback will be delayed by yet another week image

  • badbark, 3000 is a lot and you still have December left. Marathon talk just spoke to Dan Robinson who once did 1000 miles in one month, so 4000 by the end of 2013?

    18 for me today. Since VLM 2012 I have done one 19 miler in June 2012 and nothing else much over 15. I would have liked to build up a bit more gently but November started with a 15.5 and has crept by without bettering that so I needed to realign else I will not get a 20 this side of the New Year. 

    The route was very nice, out to Richmond Park and through the park, then through Ham which is a really pretty village and onto the Thames at Teddignton Lock, then 10 miles downstream on the tow path back to Hammersmith. I found the last few miles a bit hard and the pace for the last mile was 8:49 but I think that was more mental than physical. Overall 18.05 in 2:20 for average 7:48 which is MP +20% which is a reasonable pace for this time of year.

    That brought November up to 198.3 miles so 200 will be met and that leaves 146 miles to clear 2000 for the year.


  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    Badbark - 3000 is impressive, ~60M/week every week !

    PMJ - 18 on a school morning is impressive too. VLM must be coming on to the horizon.


  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭

    TR - V45 pot-bagging impressive also . . . . . .

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    That's 3 years of running for me, Badbark. Good going!

    Strange 10 miler tonight. Never really got into it. No rhythm. 7.24 pace but was supposed to be run as an LSR, so should have been much slower. Can't seem to run slow on my own very well, if you know what I mean? Having someone to talk to will help on the longer runs. Also, 10 miles is a funny old distance, not really LSR territory and can be attacked if legs fancy it.

    Still it's done now, no running until Monday...BRING ON THE BOOZE! image


    PS - If anyone has access, I have a cameo appearance on the Baker/Kelly football show on BT Sport tomorrow night. Making an arse of myself again!image

  • BB - Wowzer that is impressive mileage.

    PMJ - Good 18 miler sounds like a nice route too.

    Gul - You got up early to make Mrs GD a cup of tea, does anyone sleep in your household?

    Unplanned 5k "Westpark run" for me tonight. Wasn't expecting a quick time as I was very naughty and had too much of the demon grape last night watching the footie. Finished in 19:15, it was so dark I couldn't be bothered to look at my watch but the splits are shocking. 1st mile in 6:01, 2nd 6:18, 3rd 6:21 and then 35 for the last 160m or so. Good race though as alot of the juniors turned up and some posted quick times. One 14 year old doing 16:4x. Forgot my garmin was still on imperial laps which I used for the half so the splits look even worse than they would if they were km splits. Last proper bit of speedwork I did was back in the summer so not all that bad. Beat all my rivals which was pleasing and even managed to overtake one of the speedier juniors in the last k which was a combination of me trying a bit more in the last and him slowing a bit but he hung on to come in a mere 2 seconds behind me. Once exams are d&d I am going to focus on speed and hills in an attempt to get a bit quicker before I turn 40!image

    BOTF - You're nearly there!

Sign In or Register to comment.