Sub 3h15

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  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    Right, quick read back. Good running from Minni & Poacher oop north, and  some quick times from PMJ, Gul (and possibly others I may have missed).

    Hope Jools & Speedy recover quickly from injury & illness respectively.

    Solid miles for AR, Men & Ant.

    11.5 easy ones early on Saturday morning, and then a weekend of birthday parties baking, cooking and hosting as December 8th marks a rather big family day, with the birthdays of mother-in-law, Mrs A and eldest Ms A all coming on the same day. Back to work for a rest, and hopefully out for a few miles at lunch.

  • Minni wrote (see)

    joined Poacher for his last two laps.    Complaining a lot image but really pushing on.  And there was a sprint finish from him.

     

    Complaining because (a) full of running but legs really suffering on the tarmac, not raced on a hard surface for ages, and (b) stupidly allowed myself to be persuaded by Minni into a pointless sprint finish, uphill and into the wind. A bit rich coming from someone who can't even find her own car image

     

  • Welcome aboard Leslie! I’d recommending getting this book to increase your knowledge further - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Run-Faster-5k-Marathon-Coach/dp/0767928229

    I’ve improved from a 3:15ish marathon runner to 2:54 this year by adopting it’s recommendations.

    Nice Park running or racing from Gul, Poacher, PMJ and Minni

    Good training runs Lorenzo, Ant, OO, Mennania, BOFT, Birch and Abbers

    Sorry to hear about illness/injuires Jools, Speedy and Blisters

    It appears that my 5 mile race last week was not measured correctly and was only about 4.9 miles. Doh! So my 28:47 for 4.9 miles would have me finishing 5 miles in about 29:25. This is 5:53 pace which does align better with my 5:49 5k PB pace and 5:55 10k PB pace.

    I raced a 3 mile XC at the weekend and was happy with 17:53 which was 22 seconds faster over the same course as last year. 60 miles for the week and I'm ticking over nicely before increasing the mileage next year.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Poacher - that was only because I couldn't keep up with you!  Anyway its good to have a strong finish. image

    BB you're a great advert for that book.

    Speedy - hope you feel better soon.

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    Oh yes, and a belated welcome to Leslie!

    7 at 8m/m in the bag.

     

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Nice one Abbers.  I did 5m @ 5am  @ 8m/m  this morning.image  I was on the county lanes and almost died when a tarpaulin attacked me in the dark.  image

  • Philip_M_Jones wrote (see)
    Gul Darr wrote (see)

    AR / PMJ - wasn't that a week of "easy" running, too?!
    3 miles @ 8:27 m/m d&d.

    Mine was not that fast: my week was 51.67 miles at 7:56 pace.

     

    Bear in mind that I am running to a completly different appproach now as I'm not 'saving' myself for 20 miler LSR's . I'm in a period where there are no quality miles and I'm running at the upper and lower end of my easy pace.

    Once I reintroduce the quality sessions, and up the fatigue, easy pace will fall off. Thats the plan anyway.

    What really scares me, is that it is December, and some of you are already pushing beyond 15 / 16 miles which is going to be around my limit from now till April image I still have the long run shakes but I'm fighting it. Yesterday was 8 miles - plain old weird for a Sunday. It didn't seem worth putting running kit on for that distance, but Mrs AR wouldn't allow me out in my Sunday best.

     

  • Badbark wrote (see)

    Welcome aboard Leslie! I’d recommending getting this book to increase your knowledge further - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Run-Faster-5k-Marathon-Coach/dp/0767928229

    I’ve improved from a 3:15ish marathon runner to 2:54 this year by adopting it’s recommendations.

     Strugging to not put my text in the quote , not sure how to sort it?? image

    Thanks for that badbark , thats good improvement I could do with some of that cheers , book ordered .image

    AR /PMJ/Gul ..I did 51.6 @ 8:12m/mile average last week as a comparion , intervals make the rest of my runs slower than they would normally be , finding it hard to get sub 8mm most days at present.

    Did 6 easy miles today and the calf seemed ok just sore on stairs or to the touch.

  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    PMJ - not sure what you think I meant, I was trying to say that it must be difficult to compare XC times as XC must be affected by how boggy the course is etc from year to year, which must be a bigger factor than your overall fitness year to year. If you are doing PnD then the MP sections in long runs will tell you all you need to know anyway.

    AR - I was thinking that a weeks running at sub 7mm, doesnt sound like easy paced running to me either.

    first double digit run for a while y'day for me with 15M, hope to be up to 18 sometime in January. Getting the running miles in uisnt going very well at the mo, if I dodnt run commute then my mileage is poor.

  • I think average pace over a week is purely indicative and can be misleading. I am trying to get more differentiation into the miles so some will be 30 seconds or more faster than MP, some at MP, but a lot at MP + 120 (8:30 pace for me).

    I always try and get a few long runs in early as my schedule isn't the best in the New Year. I have 4 XC races booked in 4 consecutive weeks, and the Southern and National 12 stages, so 6 short races as well as a half and a 20 miler which makes 8 weeks: add a 3 week taper and that maks 11 and I think I have 14 weeks so that leave 3 weeks clear for long runs.

  • TR wrote (see)

    PMJ - not sure what you think I meant, I was trying to say that it must be difficult to compare XC times as XC must be affected by how boggy the course is etc from year to year, which must be a bigger factor than your overall fitness year to year.

    I got that but I was trying to justify being as fit. As you say, P&D MP will have out.

  • Under Hansons, every Easy training  day is run at an Easy to Moderate pace. For me that is:

    6:30 - 7:00 Moderate

    7:00 - 7:30 Easy

    This also overlaps the Mcmillan calc. There are no p&d type recovery days

    Flexibility is given in Hansons to run the Easy days at the moderate pace based on how you are feeling, whats coming up etc, or for example the day before the long run (to knacker yourself more). At the moment I'm doing roughly 7 min/m with a few faster and slower

    In standard Hansons plans,  moderate and easy are defined roughly as 1 to 2 mins slower than MP. However, I have been given a specific pace by Hansons that bears no relation to the general advice in their book. Even after going back and questioning this pace I'm told this is their recommendation based on my training background. Once the mileage and sessions come in,  there will be a lot more miles run closer to 7:30.

     

  • AR - I think lots of people find Dec good for training as there is plenty of time off depending on one's job. Also an insurance policy again a busy or very snowy January

    Impressed as ever with PMJs organisation.  Bound to pay dividends.

    Final scores from Newcastle
    Minni - 1.39.15, 1st F40, 18th overall, good run, priority must be to convert in London
    Poacher - 3.22.09, 7th, 1st V50, happy with that, got a mara double in a fortnight's time though... image

     

     

     

     

  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    PMJ - indeed, if you can do the 13 and 14M of MP in the PnD long runs then thats all you need to know. Sounds like you arnt following the plan exactly though. With only 4 long runs Jan to April (?). Can you not do a long runs on those XC weeks, you are doing long runs midweek still  ?

    AR - understood, sounds like you are finding it easy, even if the paces are coming out too quick at the mo. Although those paces dont look like MP +1min and 2min.

  • Also-ran, wobbling already!? You are never going to be able to stop yourself sneaking in the odd 20. And, by the way, for the purposes of this exercise 20s on the treadmill also count even behind closed doors without the lights on.

    I am not going for a pb this year but I have already sneaked in a couple of twenties - go on you know you want to.

    Last week 50.19 miles for me @ 7:42 mm with 4684 ft asc and 4493 ft desc.

  • TR wrote (see)

    PMJ - indeed, if you can do the 13 and 14M of MP in the PnD long runs then thats all you need to know. Sounds like you arnt following the plan exactly though. With only 4 long runs Jan to April (?). Can you not do a long runs on those XC weeks, you are doing long runs midweek still  ?

    I won't follow the plan to the letter as my schedule is 6 runs a week but only one at the weekend so I need to juggle the basic plan anyway. I will do long runs midweek so will do more than 4 but even the 18 week 55-70 plan only has 4 runs of 20 or more which I think is light so I get a few in early. The thing I will take is the mesocycles which actually allow a race if you call it LT or tempo.

  • Today I have Sexy Husky Voice. Win. 

    I ran today. Only 30 mins on the treadie. I thought my legs would feel all fresh and bouncy, but sadly they felt weak and Bambi-like. Ah well, onwards and upwards.

  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    CC - Steady, I nearly spilled my cereal then !

    PMJ - folks say that PnD only has 4 runs of 20 or more, but is has the Wednesday and Friday MLRs too, so the plan as a whole makes up for the lesser amount of 20s.Stu Leaney and Marigold have both run 2:3X using PnD, so its proven in my eyes. It should do you proud.

  • So, those of us who are doing VLM and P&D start tomorrow!! 9M with 4 @ HMP. Should be interesting...

    Anybody see a problem with switching the Wednesday MLRs and the Thursday recoveries around? I have very little time Wednesdays but could squeeze in a 5-6 miler. Then I could do longer, better quality stuff on Thursdays,

  • Ahem, except those of us who are using the first edition, Ant. We get to do a nice easy 8-miler with 10x 100m strides. image

  • TR wrote (see)

    AR - understood, sounds like you are finding it easy, even if the paces are coming out too quick at the mo. Although those paces dont look like MP +1min and 2min.

    That is right - MP +1 and +2  is from the book plan to suit a very broad range of runners, whereas my plan and paces are custom set by Hansons. I'm not on their 'Plan in a Can' flavour

  • One Gear wrote (see)

    Also-ran, wobbling already!? You are never going to be able to stop yourself sneaking in the odd 20. And, by the way, for the purposes of this exercise 20s on the treadmill also count even behind closed doors without the lights on.

    I am not going for a pb this year but I have already sneaked in a couple of twenties - go on you know you want to.

    Last week 50.19 miles for me @ 7:42 mm with 4684 ft asc and 4493 ft desc.

    I'm doing well - a 36 day detox so far! There is no problem doing 20 milers under Hansons if you do sufficient weekly mileage (90 ish +  and take less than 150 mins to do the LR).  I don't think I will get past 75mpw so the experiment says no 20s for me

     Sounds like a good start on your non PB training OG. A relaxed approach may throw up a surprise too.

  • Lots of discussion and running going on here. No running for me since Friday. Exams finish tomorrow and then "exmas" madness ensues. I have decided I won't be doing a Spring marathon and A races will be mainly 10k's and other shorter stuff but will do some longish runs most weeks to retain some level of endurance. Am away Feb for 10 days on a winter sun break and really fancy some wind down time so that was one of the deciding factors for me. Weather here is amazing at the mo, sunny 10-12c lightish wind and set to stay for a week. Need to get out for a run 2morrow.

    AR - I look forward to hearing about your progress re the Hanson method.

    SG - Do you talk for a living? I'm not surprised you felt a tad weak, your not fully recovered yet good on yer though. My wife and son went to Doc's today after 2 weeks of the same, bit of a nasty one.

    Poacher - Great stuff was that a 50k race? Was it all on tarmac?? Conditions sounded rough. Double mara coming up???

    Minni - Good running too and nice placing. You're made of tough stuff given your antics the day before.

    TR - Do you normally have cereal at 9pm-ish?

  • Nice team running there Minni and Poacher.  Good results for both of you that you can do well in Spring.

    Like Slokey, I'm also on low mileage and got to 24 miles last week and mileage is building up steadily now.  My 50 miler is a bit further away than March though

    I had a poor run tonight.  I ran hills off-road and couldn't get enough power up the hill as I seem to be missing the top end of power at the moment.  It is one expected effects of my low-carb high fat diet.  Either I should overcome it soon and high end power would return or I'm doing it wrong.

    My family is away so I've had 3 exercise sessions today - 30min 'Total abs' class, kettlebell session at home and a run.  The new kettlebell is a beast that still needs taming

  • No Gerard, I don't talk for a living per se, but I do need to be able to speak at work. I couldn't do my job without talking to the warehouse guys. I might get away with emailing my customers, but the warehouse guys don't have email. 

  • SG - Ah ok, so the warehouse guys had the husky voice treatment. Going by TR's reaction might be an idea not to talk to them when they are having their cereal.image

  • Abbers - wow, that's some birthday celebration! My mother-in-law's too.
    Minni - that's very inconsiderate of the tarpaulin! Nice early start.
    PMJ / AR - Does Moderate equate to McMillan's steady-state runs? About 85% of my running is "easy" as the moment and most of that is supposed to be at the slower end of easy (8:30+ m/m) and I label them as slow runs to differentiate from the slightly less plodtastic easy runs (8:00-8:30). Once a week, I do a steady-state run which should be just a little slower than MP (+5%?) - so 7:30-8:00 for me. Just at the moment, I'm really struggling to keep a lid on these runs and they keep turning into tempo runs. So 12 miles slow for me this morning (8:56m/m) @ 4:45 am.

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    Gul, I admire your dedication to your training. 4:45 is ridiculous. I thought 6am on a Saturday was early enough! Good feeling to bank a 12 so early though.

    GM - good luck with the end of the exams. Going OK so far?

    Good news you're back running Speedy, even if you didn't feel quite as fresh as you had hoped!

    BI - do you have relatives in SA? Sounds like you're making the most of the training opportunity.

    Being a novice at this whole marathon thing, and having read this thread for several years, it's interesting to see the debate about the merits of the various commonly followed schedules (McMillan, P&D, etc.). Taking the perceived wisdom of 5x20 plus midweek MLR and some tempo stuff, and not wanting to break myself by suddenly increasing mileage from around 40 to 70 a week, I'm taking a slightly cautious approach and going with the basis of an old Runner's World 16 week 3:15 schedule which goes up to 55 mpw. That includes 4x20s and a 22, and starts Christmas week, so this week and next are still base miles for me.

  • Hi Gul - if I used McMillan, my Easy pace would be 6:28 - 7:23 - fairly close to Hansons.

    Hanson are basically splitting that range midpoint for me (Easy 7:-3:30, Moderate 6:30 - 7:00) and advising to use the moderate side appropriately. They see all the physiological benefits are present at Easy and Moderate paces. They are not too keen on running easy runs really slow, seeing it as a waste of tendons and musclesimage

    My steady State in McMillan would be 5:55 - 6:10 (!)  , so is way quicker than easy for me, and even a tad quicker than Marathon pace.  If i plug in my 10k times, Steady  would come out much slower. As my results are very lopsided, and favour long distance, I've always used the calculators very cautiously as they spew out some fairly inappropriate paces at times. Even so, McMillans steady state seems different to what I had read as its definition elsewhere (being MP + 10 to 20s).

    Yours confused

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    I have the onset of man-flu. had the sore throat yesterday so ditched my lunchtime run and went to the gym last night instead. Thought I'd do an easy 4 miler on the treadmill. before I knew it, I had that band spinning round at a pace that would have given me 7.00min/miles, so I relaxed into it and carried on.

    Unfortunately I'd miscalculated my km to miles conversion and ended up doing 4.1 miles within the 28 mins window I'd given myself. Did 27.32 which meant I averaged 6.43 pace.

    The man-flu is taking a grip today. I have a voice that makes Barry White sound like a boy soprano. Extremely annoying as this is supposed to be first week proper of the Brighton campaign. Looks like I may be using the sick week allowance in my plan on week one.

    Any views on training with man-flu? I've had a Lemsip capsule which should see me survive the next few hours...

    SB

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