Sub 3h15

Matchstick Man

Windy wrote (see)

AC. The snubbed six are the ones entitled "RW Six" on VLM thread "Martin H departmentalised by Gobi" is the sub3 thread equivalent, I believe.

Can't find it? Can find 4 of the RW Forum 6 but not the other (speedier?) 2

The Runner Formerly Known as Lorenzo

Matchstick Man wrote (see)

Having done a quick analysis of the times put up so far it seems that (RaceJase aside) we're all pretty much of a similar standard. The majority can get under 90mins but the conversion from sub 90 to quick marathons is not that great.
It really does highlight the number one issue that it's all about endurance first and foremost. We all seem to have speedy 5k/5mile/10k times and most of us can convert those times to good halfs but we all pretty much fall down when it comes to the marathon.

I know we're dealing with a small subset/sample group but it does back-up the fact that you will need a HM of 90mins or under to be in with a good shout of going sub 3h15. As with the faster runners on here going sub 3, you need to go WELL under what the online calculators say you should be capable of at a half to achieve your goal

Good summary MM - somehow I feel as though I should be able to convert an 88min HM to a sub 3:10 (at least) marathon, but it didn't work out earlier this year.

Perhaps I didn't get the last month's training spot on in the run up to VLM 10, but the big question I'm asking myself is whether I need to do more medium length (10-13 miles) MP runs in the run up to whichever Spring marathon I end up doing (holidays permitting), or whether it's about improving my speed over shorter distances.

The reason for thinking about the speed side (apart from the wise words from P&D and all their disciples here) is that when I look at some of the 5K and 10K times posted by people on here compared to mine, I feel as though that's where I need to do some work but intuitively it feels as though the best way to take (say) another 5 mins off my marathon time would be to focus on the longer runs at the necessary speed.

A bit rambling I know, but any thoughts out there?

Matchstick Man

Lorenzo wrote (see)

it feels as though the best way to take (say) another 5 mins off my marathon time would be to focus on the longer runs at the necessary speed.

A bit rambling I know, but any thoughts out there?

You've got a sub 88min HM, I'd say you had plenty of good speed. You do need to practice running at MP within the context of longer runs. Your 40m32 10k is weak and you seem to get stronger as the race goes on. I'd say your endurance is fine and from memory so is your pacing, it's just your cruising speed you need to work on.
Just as Ant likes running relatively quickly all the time you like doing longer runs. So the challenge is to get Ant to slow down and you to speed up in training

Race Jase

Matchstick Man wrote (see)

Interesting that RJ has done less miles over the year than SBD but has better PB's. It's not about the total annual miles but how much you can pack in during your campaign

I think that is true to a large extent, but lets not forget that age, natural ability, gender, training plan, injuries/illness/niggles, luck on the day, good race strategy, confidence etc, etc play a huge part too. The thing that I'm frustrated with is that if I had done more running when I was just being lazy it would probably have had a reasonable impact on the times I should be capable of next year. But as I have had a reasonable amount of down time this year, I probably wont get to the level that I probably was capable of, if that makes sense. Oh well mustn't grumble, I'm pretty chuffed with how the year has gone to be fair!

[Deleted User]

Minni is on Sub330

Snubbed Six Sub330 Minni mentor DubaiDave

Martin H is Sub3

Snubbed Six Sub3 MartinH mentalist Gobi

Don't know if there's a Sub315, if there is I can't see it. 
There's a Mike Frog but it doesn't say what time it is.

AC

Matchstick Man wrote (see)

Having done a quick analysis of the times put up so far it seems that (RaceJase aside) we're all pretty much of a similar standard. The majority can get under 90mins but the conversion from sub 90 to quick marathons is not that great.
It really does highlight the number one issue that it's all about endurance first and foremost. We all seem to have speedy 5k/5mile/10k times and most of us can convert those times to good halfs but we all pretty much fall down when it comes to the marathon.
The exceptions are Ant and SBD who both have 82min HM times (82m36 to 82m12s) and similar marathon PB's - 2h59m06s to 2h58m44s
I know we're dealing with a small subset/sample group but it does back-up the fact that you will need a HM of 90mins or under to be in with a good shout of going sub 3h15. As with the faster runners on here going sub 3, you need to go WELL under what the online calculators say you should be capable of at a half to achieve your goal

Interesting that RJ has done less miles over the year than SBD but has better PB's. It's not about the total annual miles but how much you can pack in during your campaign

MM - Good summary  - as someone with relatively weak 5/10/hm times and a 3.14 marathon my perspective is that sub 1.30hm is a good marker but not the be all and end all. If you are there or thereabouts (eg my 1.33 hm pb) can work on that cruising speed and get under 3.14...that said I did run a 67min 10mile race four weeks before London this year to give me the confidence to pick a sub 3.15 pace. Also, all my pbs are on courses which are very very hilly...

RJ - I was going to post exactly that...good points

Thanks for the link Windy

B&B - belatedly, no they are not A races, they race myself fit races...

Re: Comrades, yes I would like to do it (for my 50th birthday?!) but not in the immediate plans.

The Runner Formerly Known as Lorenzo

Matchstick Man wrote (see)

Just as Ant likes running relatively quickly all the time you like doing longer runs. So the challenge is to get Ant to slow down and you to speed up in training

Bu*ger - thought you'd suggest that! I know that the answer is probably "both" but if I had to prioritise "cruising speed" vs faster speed over shorter distances, which would you recommend?

Gul Darr

Nice running, Ant. 

Interesting discussion MM and Lorenzo. I find myself in a similar (but slower!) position to Lorenzo; probably should be on the sub 3:30 thread! Do you think that some people are not as naturally strong on speed, but are better on endurance? For instance, I think I am capable of going sub 90 for HM, but a sub 40 10k seems almost unreachable for me. I haven't raced a 10k since moving gradually from occasional once or twice a week training to six days a week, so my next target is a 10k in May. Maybe I should consider concentrating on my 10k and HM times this year and wait until 2012 before attempting another marathon?

Race Jase

Lozzer, my tuppence worth if you like. You seem to be someone who consistently gets good levels of mileage in whether in a marathon campaign or not and so I would suggest that endurance is in fact your strong point as you have a good correlation between your times. Yes one can always work on endurance and develop it (by just doing more miles) but as you and MM have suggested it is probably the shorter distance times that need work on, even in the context of a faster marathon in the future. You are I think at the point that I expect to get to next year where there is a slight plateau and although small improvements can be made, without doing something completely different, ie working on shorter distance speed you are unlikely to improve much further. I hope I've written this in a way that comes across in the right way and is not offensive/dergoatory.

Matchstick Man

Lorenzo wrote (see)

Matchstick Man wrote (see)

Just as Ant likes running relatively quickly all the time you like doing longer runs. So the challenge is to get Ant to slow down and you to speed up in training

Bu*ger - thought you'd suggest that! I know that the answer is probably "both" but if I had to prioritise "cruising speed" vs faster speed over shorter distances, which would you recommend?

Cruising speed - by that I mean you have to work on your MP once a week at least. Personally I'd say that this should be done as blocks of work within longer runs so no reason to give up your favoured early morning runs but you could look at introducing some long (15min) intervals of MP once you're warmed up

Matchstick Man

Gul Darr wrote (see)

Maybe I should consider concentrating on my 10k and HM times this year and wait until 2012 before attempting another marathon?

I think there is a strong argument for racing a marathon for you personally in 2011 and that's to use it as a springboard to a better time in 2012. Each marathon can be used as a learning process and stepping stone - just look at CC2 who is getting better and better every year and instead of going for broke and trying for sub 31h5 within 16 weeks of starting running is getting there in incremental stages year on year.
Remind us of your PB's?

Badbark

There’s been some fantastic PB’s set this year. Well done everyone!

The only PB I broke this year was in the marathon but I did manage to do it three times-

My previous best was 3:48 and ran a 3:28 at the start of May, 3:26 at the end of May and a 3:13 in October.

Both HM’s I ran this year were only finished in 1:32 but I did run a 1:29:45 on a treadmill. I only ran one 10k and took 38:21. I have a 1:30:06 HM and a 37:40 10k PB that I set in 1996 before giving up running that I hope to beat next year.

I just broke the 2000 miles for the year barrier this morning and should reach my long term goal of 2010 in 2010 tomorrow!

Gul Darr

Hi MM.
I've only  done 6 races, so need more race experience generally.
10k 44:xx (May 2009), although I have done 42:xx in training since.
HM 1:32 (Mar 2010)
Mara 6:20:04 (should have been DNS or at least DNF!)

[Deleted User]

Went to the gym for treadmill intervals this morning. Still too icy under foot for quick running here. Wanted to do it last night but festive hangover was just a tad too bad yesterday!

2m warm up @ 8:00/mile

5 x 1km @ 3:48 w/2min jog recovery

1m warm down

About 6.5 miles in total and happy to have another quick session under the belt.

Another festive meal and do this evening, next run boxing day morning i think.

[Deleted User]

Looking at peoples' PBs this year, it's not surprising the "A" race list is so long. There's alot of determination and belief on this here thread. As far as my targets are concerned, there's the obvious marathon one, the ridiculous "gonna race MM at 10k" one, the must actually properly race a HM one and will get under 19mins for the 5k one.

Keir - Should we all have a guess at what you'll achieve for your first 10k?

MM - Funny to see your mile PB is only 10 secs quicker than your first mile in the Birmingham HM!

Barry - Good story. It still was a compliment you know. What she meant was "His svelte look suggests he's reached racing weight"  

Fraser - One PB for the year but oh, what a PB it was

RJ - Good to have you back in Blighty. Amazing set of PB's this year for you. Are they for sale?

Poacher wrote (see)

PB: 50m - 7.19

PW: Mara - 4.20  
P2ndW: Mara - 4.14  

There's a pattern somewhere...

Yeah, if you can get 2 x sub3's next year, you should be able to do the 50 miler in about 5:50

BOTF - Amazing 10 mile time.

Gul - 100 miles by the 23rd day of the month is fantastic considering your circumstances. And yes, I think, because of one's natural ratio of slow to fast twitch fibres, I think everyone will lean towards either better short or long race times.

Good running from you Windy, even if your maths is up the spout.

KR - Missed out again, huh? I even posted an advertisement for you on that thread yesterday but to no avail.

Well done to Minni for getting selected. Probably only fair as you'd already set up a sub3:30 thread a couple of months ago. Good luck with your target.

Another 10.5 skated miles last night but much quicker than the previous evening. 8:08mm, ave 133bpm. Only saw one other runner (apart from the people on the treadmills in the gym I run past in town - and yes, I always wave!) and he was wearing the same running jacket as me. Is that relevant? Finish work today, until next Wednesday so aiming for an icy LSR tomorrow, which will take me over 50 miles in the snow for the week. Don't question my dedication but feel free to question my sanity.

[Deleted User]

Morning all,

Just off to have a read back but as people are starting yearly summary etc I'll pop mine up: I don't have all my records here but I think that I should be topping out at about 1000 miles for the year, I'm a bit nervous to tot them up to be honest incase it shows that I've not done as much as I think. The first 6 months of the year I was clocking about 50 a week but after that I suspect I dropped to about 25 or 30 a week for chunks of the year, so about a 1000 is a little optimistic maybe.

Anyway

PBs for the year:

Marathon: 3.17:58 VLM
HM: 88:39 Reading
10m: 69:26 Bupa Great South

10miler is soft pb as I've run quicker in longer races so that is on the goal list for next year.

Overal goals for next year:

Sub 3:10 at Brighton
sub 1:26 at Reading
Sub 40 10k
2000 miles for the year..... (actually works out as 5.5miles per day so not a bad goal) but its consistency through the year that I will be looking for primarily)....

SBD.

Race Jase wrote (see)

Matchstick Man wrote (see)

Interesting that RJ has done less miles over the year than SBD but has better PB's. It's not about the total annual miles but how much you can pack in during your campaign

I think that is true to a large extent, but lets not forget that age, natural ability, gender, training plan, injuries/illness/niggles, luck on the day, good race strategy, confidence etc, etc play a huge part too. The thing that I'm frustrated with is that if I had done more running when I was just being lazy it would probably have had a reasonable impact on the times I should be capable of next year. But as I have had a reasonable amount of down time this year, I probably wont get to the level that I probably was capable of, if that makes sense. Oh well mustn't grumble, I'm pretty chuffed with how the year has gone to be fair!

Let's not forget RJ has natural talent on his side, whereas I'm devoid of any sense of speed and have to put the miles in just to get mediocre results

It does surprise me RJ that you can build your fitness up so quickly after periods of down time.   You must adapt extremely well

Matchstick Man

Windy wrote (see)

Minni is on Sub330

Snubbed Six Sub330 Minni mentor DubaiDave

Martin H is Sub3

Snubbed Six Sub3 MartinH mentalist Gobi

Don't know if there's a Sub315, if there is I can't see it. 
There's a Mike Frog but it doesn't say what time it is.

What am I doing wrong? I can't "see" either of these when I look at the VLM forum yet I can post on them. I can see all the other threads - both Asics 6 and RW Forum 6, just not these two threads. Even when I post on Martin's thread so it's the latest one with a post on it, it doesn't show up for me - bizarre

[Deleted User]

MM: see if you are ignoring members?

Matchstick Man

Zapo wrote (see)

MM: see if you are ignoring members?

I was! Scooby Dudek, Kittenkat and one other. How that happened I've no idea but I can see the threads now thanks!

[Deleted User]

If you use an iphone it happens all the time!!

[Deleted User]

...did somebody say something?

[Deleted User]

It seams to me that the Super six are mentor less at the moment. Adding to my initial thoughts that it lacks a bit of good organisation this year. Hope it all comes to gether very soon for them.

[Deleted User]

@lorenzo - primary focus is the mara pb - all my training is geared around that.  the hm and 10k pb are stepping stones on the way, or rather early indicators of whether or not the mara pb is going to happen.

the 5k pb is one for later in the year really. in between spring and autumn mara training.

Barry B

Well done to B&B, AC and Ant for getting out in the elements. Planned for a long one today but conditions and time limitiations, bloody shopping getting in the way of important stuff,  meant I went down the gym for a treadie HM, wanted to see where my speed was and managed 13.1 in 1:27:04 which  works out at 6:38 avg. Puts me on 53 miles for the week with 2 days left so might break 60 for the first time then again it is Xmas.

AC

Nice run Antonio.

My legs feel marmalised by yesterday's 13.5m jaunt through the snow and ice. And my head is a bit fuzzy from a late Christmas do last night.

Can someone in the know post a link to the spurned six thingy?

[Deleted User]

Flipping heck BB! You must have looked an absolute looney to the other gym goers! Good going.

[Deleted User]

A.C wrote (see)

Nice run Antonio. My legs feel marmalised by yesterday's 13.5m jaunt through the snow and ice. And my head is a bit fuzzy from a late Christmas do last night. Can someone in the know post a link to the spurned six thingy?

It's deja-vu, all over again!