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Sub 3h15
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Great treadie sesh BB - that's a long hard sweat in the gym eh !
Stats,stats and more stats.....marvellous
Lorenzo - to echo the others it looks to me like your endurance (and focus on ultra type stuff) exceeds alot of ours and isn't the issue. I'd have thought if you really want to attack the mara PB, the half and/or 10k times need to come down. Over the summer I was pulling my finger out more in HM and tempo sessions and made a big difference for me ie took nearly 15 mins off my time from VLM
Not offensive or derogatory at all - really helpful from you, MM and FW.
With my latest plans for Easter meaning that I might have to miss out on VLM, it looks like picking Abo as the main target and perhaps Shakespeare in May to trial a different race strategy (negative split for the first time in my life perhaps?)
2 follow up questions about the speed sessions:
- am I better off with a tempo run of say 5 miles, or intervals. I recall RJ saying that he wasn't a big fan of intervals because of the injury risk and it sounds like FW prefers tempo sessions as well. If tempo, then assuming I'm aiming for sub 3:10 at this stage (i.e. 7:15 min miles), what speed do you reckon the tempo runs should be at? If I really pushed the boat out and targetted sub 3, what sort of speed should I be doing?
- whilst I find it relatively easy to churn out 20 milers starting at 6am, I really struggle with speed sessions at that time in the morning. Also, I find the roads near me make consistent pace running difficult. One option is to join a running club and go to evening training sessions and the other option is to use a local gym at lunchtime and go on the dreadmill. I guess that the latter has the advanatage of being able to set the pace and stick to it, but is it a better option than a club session?
No-one lives in a flat area - why are the roads difficult? I do a lot of my running in suburban areas with dead stops, corners, traffic lights, pedestrians, hills, descents to contend with. Even my long runs are over nice lumpy terrain. That's the challenge isn't it?
6:15am? We're usually warming down by that time!
If you want flat, get yourself over to West Norfolk. It's hill work that's the problem around these parts!
I'm not a huge fan of intervals every week. I feel they do have a place in any well structured marathon schedule, but to do them every week is asking for trouble in my opinion as you will more than likely get injured and/or peak too soon. This is especially true for folks that dont have much of a running background/cant handle decent mileage. It was something that I was lucky enough to learn early doors in my running career. And so I focused on the things that I could do sensibly. And at the time that meant building my endurance base by doing just more slower mileage.
I think tempo runs are really good and you can make quick and noticeable advancements but again it depends on where you are in the training cycle. There's also a question about length, pace as well as frequency. For example a 10mile MP within a 13 could class as a tempo but then so could a 4 mile HMP within an 9miler.
I can never quite believe how people can manage to fit a hardcore intervals, hardcore HMP, hardcore MP and a (relatively) fast long run in every week.
Like I said before you are probably one of the few where endurance is the strength because of the years of running good consistenly consistent mileage. So how do you get faster over the marathon? I would do both intervals and tempo work but just dont try to do too much cause it'll catch up with you..... why not look at a decent schedule for a half and have that as your A race ala MM/Keir in the spring. Then once you have a marker you can ramp up to a solid and improved mara PB at Abo?
Just realised I didnt ATFQ! Running for fitness is good as FW suggested, but then so is Mcmillan for pace suggestions. On both of those sites there are examples of various sessions you could do.
For the record, I also do all my HMP and MP stuff on a flat(ish) stretch of road and double back. Luckily it's just under 2 miles long so isnt too tedious, even for an 11mMP sesh.
Oooh, you've all gotten a bit serious on here today.
I'm back in the North East. The news this morning was full of warnings of the busiest day of the year on the roads and predicting travel chaos. The conditions on the roads were indeed unprecedented for this time of year. No snow. No traffic jams. Free flowing traffic even through the roadworks.... Never seen anything like it!!!!!!
And now, having cleared my parents drive of 15cms of snow so that I could actually park on it, I'm catching up with over a week's worth of emails and looking for those new RW Forum Six threads
FW does 6:15s not sound a bit too fast for someone who's target MP is 7:15s? I would wager it would be more like 6:40/5's that would be most effective. And lets not forget here also lies in the problem that HMP will vary from day to day depending on a number of factors. So it's of paramount importantance to always take as much notice of perceived effort as possible and monitor that as well as the actual pace.
Ill, sick, ill, poorly.
Cold better but dizzy spells and feel knackered. Still have the cough.
B&B - You can organise a sweepstake for my 10k if you like, although I had an email from the organiser today warning of ice on route and a final decision on the event being taken on boxing day. It might go the same way as the HM and 10miler also cancelled this yr due to weather. (Soft southeners!)
All a bit serious today. Even Windy and B&B making relatively sensible comments. On which note, sorry to hear about your wet run this morning Ant. I'm a bit surprised to hear about the conditions as I was under the impression that the rain in Spain fell mainly on the plain.
Sorry.
I'll leave you to get back to the debate on training / pacing issues.
I remember MM doing a lunchtime set of 3 intervals at sub 6mm this summer, I think they were 5:40's so he's probably not joking.
Shhhhh Keir, we're being sensible
Sorry you're not well mate. Hope your race goes ahead, if you do. Don't suppose you're particularly looking forward to it at the moment.
Another busy day on the sub 3.15 fred1!
Well done on that treadie 13.1 miler BB.
And also congrats to Minni for being picked on the snubbed six.
Rest day today looking after the kids and a bit of wrapping tonight. Hoping to get a 11 mile XC run done in the morning at an easy pace to set me up for those impending mince pies and Stella!
Re - paces - Maybe that 6.15 was a bit quick - I tried to do tempo stuff 6.05-6.10 over the summer. Didn't always work though , and that was based on an aspirational MP of 6.35-6.40 (which , again didn't quite work out!)
Right - time to say something ridiculous, 'tis Xmas eve eve afterall
ARSE,FECK,DRINK,GIRLS
Are you on the drink already Fraser
I would adopt the keep it simple approach for deciding what's tempo pace - it's what ever pace you could maintain for 60 mins on the day.
Lorenzo - You might want to add strides to the speed training mix - so sets of 100m accelerations at up to eg 5K pace, concentrating on leg turnover and relaxation. As Fraser has said, you could do these to warm up for the tempo efforts or you could do them at the end of an easy or moderate run.
Good stuff with regards to the tempo runs though. I'm also aiming at a sub 3.10 next year (sub 3.00 with 4 months of ideal training?!) so I'm paying very close attention to the suggested paces of these runs. I think 6.40-6.50 seems a fairly reasonable starting point.
6miles on relatively ice-free Kentish country roads for me today. A short run to try out the new Adizero Tempos. Seem a very good shoe. The bright red colour seemed to want me to run fast so I was careful to hold back
Just to follow up posts from yesterday with stats for the year to date:
Miles (so far): 1405
Avg.pace: 8m10s
Weeks missed through injuries: At least 8
PB's in 2010:
Marathon: 3.15.19 Paris
Half-marathon: 1.34.52 (Lorenskog, Norway)
Have a great Christmas everyone. With all the training we do, don't worry about that extra chocolate, mince pie or beer!
Wise words mate.
That's exactly what I'm doing, 12 week build for the Paddock Wood Half starts on the 3rd Jan. Then also bolting on another 6 wks of training to do a marathon, as much for the miles and experience as anything else. Then piggyback from that to a campaign for a sub 3 attempt at Abo in October.
However MM so far has only committed to running half of Abingdon Marathon, and then only if we pay his entry. Entries close end of April. Anyone fancy a sweepstake as to when he'll get his full entry in the post? (Sorry MM, I know it is Xmas and all that... but fk it, you know you wanna!
)
I did my 10 mile aerobic run this morning mostly in the dark as I got up early to fit it in with the day's plans. It is treacherous and just a little bit silly to go running in the darkness when the ground is icy. Needless to say I slid and crashed quite heavily cornering by Bishop's Park. Luckily nobody saw me so my embarrassment was minimised. My pace was kept down as a result even though I was feeling quite springy (averaging 8.30 m/m) although I did a couple of 7.30 m/m at the end when I had some clear ice-free road to finish on. They felt fine lung-wise although my knee is s bit funny again. Must get those orthotics I think. As usual it took me ages to warm up though. Is it an age thing and not just a genetic (as in where you come from) thing?
An interesting day on the fred today.
FWIW I would say that doing miles at MP or a bit quicker is worth much more during the build-up to a marathon than doing reps. My target pace this year was 6:50mm, so I used to do a lot of miles at 6:45mm. That way, on the day 6:50mm felt really comfortable (well, comfortable - you know what I mean). What I plan to do this time are more slower miles, but I will include at least two sessions where 10 or more miles go by at MP, whatever that proves to be, and possibly a 7-10m tempo run, where I do miles at approx 6:35mm . I don't see the point of going through the agony of doing reps faster than that. It's all about feeling you can hold onto the same pace for 26.2 miles. If you can't, then all the training will have been a waste of time.
10ks and HMs are things to be done for enjoyment along the way, and they have the added bonus of providing a fairly accurate fitness marker. They also replace sessions midweek which aim to reproduce similar pace.
But I'm sure everyone here will concur that they are only steps on the way to The Big One, so there's no point getting too worried about how your performance in one of these races will translate on marathon day.
Someone mentioned the correlastion between miles banked in 2010 and results in the marathon. I may have done fewer miles than some over the year, but my monthly totals during the VLM were: Jan 170, Feb 180, March 235, Apr 170. It's just that I did next-to-nothing from then on, til October.
Ramble over!
10 miles for me today av pace 8.01. I'm off to deepest darkest Scotland tomorrow (no wifi, no broadband, no phone signal).
i may go mad. Either way i'm trying to escape for a 10 miler on Xmas day with my new yaktraks
My Xmas pressie to me was place in the Marrakech marathon so Kier - can you put me down please for 30th Jan.
Merry Christmas to you all! Happy running and i hope santa is good to you
x
Forgot to mention before: that is an astonishing treadmill HM, BB. It speaks of a really enviable mental strength, too. Don't you find you get much too hot on a treadie? Have you got something intersting to stare at while you're pounding away? Incredible.
I noticed my right arm was painful yesterday and it kept me awake last night. I must have pulled a muscle at the gym on Wednesaday, or something. Anyway, that rules out a trip to the gym this morning, I think. I'll just do an easy 4-5 miler round here, clock up my 42 miles for the week and then have a few days off running.
Catching a plane to Stansted at five this arvo.
Anyway, Barry, that's great going.
Got 5m done today, and noticed how the CNBA fairy has come to stay for Christmas. Still, got a bit more into it halfway through, and did the last four kms @ 4:10, 4;10, 4;02 & 3:58. I wanted to do at least some pacey stuff, because this week has really just been about getting the miles done (43.5) before I fly to England.
I'll hopefully get out one at my mum's and go over Epsom Downs, once at my twin's and pound the fair streets of Bromley, and once at my other brother's and brave the winds on Brightom seafront. All this just holiday running, though. Then on New Year's Eve, I fly back to Spain but to Santander, and will do the tradtional end-of-year race held in every city, town and village, the San Silvestre.
In case I don't get the chance to post again, I'll take this opportunity to wish you all a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. It's been absolutely brilliant to be able to share so many experiences and thoughts with you and to learn so much. Have a good 'un.
Yes, great dreadmill run Barry.
Take care MsE! Now you've made it safely to Norfolk, we don't want any accidents. Well done on fitting the run in around your plans.
Nice run too Jane - enjoy yourself in the wilds of Scotland.
Ant - hope your travels go without a hitch.
Up and early this morning for a Crackerjack run
The snow has gone, but still a few ice patches around, but I decided to hit the road. A bit undisciplined and extended the planned 8M to 12. Firt 3M @ MP+20%, 2M @ MP+10%, 4M @ MP + 3% and 3M @ MP+10% to cool-down. No more running for at least 3 days now.
Have a good Christmas everyone. I pray that everyone travelling will keep safe and you'lll all find a bit of joy and peace. And remember, in the words of Ishmael, run the race at Jesus' pace and at the finishing line there'll be no disgrace.