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Start to 2013 has not gone to plan, unwell yesterday due to excessive alcohol consumption and woken today with head cold and cough so thought best to leave it another day, So feeling a little concerned after reading everyone's great runs and efforts two days in to the new year
Aims for 2013 is break 3hrs in VLM, managed 3.13 this year and have recently broken 40mins for 10k, hoping that puts me in a better position to reach my A target?!
Can I pop in? I think 3:15 might be a bit a ambitious for me but did 3:25 last year (twice) so need another target. I've 2 spring marathons - one in April where my target will be at least 4 hrs, then Edinburgh in May for a target of 3:15. Good (though slow) run today around Edinburgh hill for 20 miles.
Hope everyone off to a good start for 2013?
Welcome aboard Trigs and HH. Some of the performance improvements are best achieved over a longer time frame than 16 weeks. The 52 week plan is a good programme, but the 104 is better.
Of course there's no substitute for blind optimism and simple faith. But some training helps.
(Ratrun 6.6 miles trotted out gently. I must have been in the zone, as I can't remember great chunks)
Lovin the avatar Hillheader
Hi to everyone new, old, past and present.
Here is a question for you guys. Thinking back, and looking forward, I want to find a better way to do interval session (currently run on a flat concrete path). I think intervals is one of the main contributors I have had to injury / niggles and I'm not looking forward to them because of this. The local running track is more like a sandpit in the winter. I know I could do intervals on soft ground, but I'd like the surface to be consistent over the weeks.
Do any of you do interval sessions on Treadmills. Is the session as effective as outdoors? Good idea or bad idea? Discuss
Dreadmills are pure torture. I think that if you pitch your pace expectations accurately, then you can get more benefit out of the treddie than the pure road. I'd suggest that you avoid the short reps (below 400m) as these are about bursting speed for a sprint, and may be too fast for the mill.
After a mile warm up, try:
1200 at HM pace 400 jog (9m/m?)
say 5 of these and a mile jog warm down. That makes 7 miles and a lot of sweat.
It could be that you aren't ready for the HM pace as a fast zone just yet, kick off with Mara pace, which is still plenty for a midweek. It's best to finish the session feeling that you can turn up the heat next time than not finish it, or finish having wrecked the rest of the week. The key aim is for consistent pace zones, and that first one should feel as though you could indeed finish the set.
I think that treddie sessions are actually better for the heart than the extreme approach of nail it/stop/nail it/stop because the heart doesn't want to over-speed during the stop phases. Seriously.
Environmental comfort will be key to the treddie set up.
Lorenzo - indeed - I'm warming up the 3:09 vlm train engine already... It was fun last time wasn't it?!
Do many people cross train with weights? I have added a core session to training and am also currently doing a spinning session a week but am doing no strength or conditioning work, what are people's thoughts on this?
Bike It - welcome back; hope the niggle clears up quickly.
Lorenzo - enjoy the rest of your holiday.
Minni - good, confidence-boosting run; looking good.
Windy - good to hear from you; sounds like you have a good excuse for not racing in those conditions.
KR - hope you can get into the swing of things this week.
FINgers - welcome back; sounds like an interesting schedule; give us all the gory details soon.
RJ - 29 miles already?!
Ant - keep up the terrible puns.
OOlg - just think of all those new category PBs and trophies you might claim!
Welcome to akatrigs and Hillheader too. I'm sure you'll get lots of good advice round here, though probably not from me (see below).
AR - sorry, not a dreadmill man myself. I run my intervals on tarmac paths. All I can add to Blisters' advice is to do a longer warm-up (I usually do 3 miles) and some stretching.
It was great to get downt the park this morning and do some intervals. 5 x 400m with long recoveries (400m) at a relaxed 5:14 m/m. 7 miles in total.
I'm getting the coal ready!!! Anyone else on this train?
Gul - good pace on the intervals.
Short recovery run this morning but managed a first as I encouraged Mrs L to come out with me. She enjoys running, but this was the first time in the dark with a head torch on (running for Keir and Windy's benefit!).
Off to the theatre this afternoon.
Also-Ran I also had some trouble last year with my intervals as they generally left me very sore the next few days and I felt like I was on the edge of injury. I think because of longer stride length, quicker turnover and applying more power. I tried to manage it with streching and foam roller. I ran them on flat tarmac. Since November I've been doing hill reps and have had no re-occurnace of the pain. The purpose is a bit different as a hill rep is more to gain leg strength and the (flat) interval is more about leg turnover and form. I generally run flat intervals at 6:00 to 6:20 pace and hill reps at 6:40 to 7:00 pace. I'm not suggesting that hill reps replace flat intervals, but it maybe give you a break if you mix it up.
The other overlooked way to run fast is a downhill interval - useful for giving the leg turnover speed and the stride length minus the power. You've got to select hill with moderate gradient so there is no requirement for breaking from the quads other wise it is counterproductive.
Akatrigs - I'm a big believer in strength work, I just don't do much. I use the swiss ball, dumbell and kettlebell in dynamic, multiplanar excercises that emulate the movements in running. Just doing isolated moves like biceps curl is pointless IMHO. If you sit all day at a desk like me then you may find your core is relatively weak and you need to strengthen it and activate it. Core strength is of course linked heavily to good running form.
Thanks for the welcome back everyone - Achilles seems fine today but I'm still going to be cautious and leave the running until next week. I had an Achilles problem in 2011 that took around 9 weeks and many trips to the physio to fix and don't want a repeat.
I got injured last year attempting a sprint session. I need to be very careful with intervals.
AR - probably more to do with running hard intervals as a novice on a concrete path than the concrete path. I think I remember you saying that you only started running ~ 1 year ago. The body takes time to toughen up, build frequency, miles and then pace. With some pre training training then you should be ok, also bear in mind that its not suppossed to be intervals as max efforts, you should finish them thinking that you could have done another. I like my 3min reps session (when I do actually do some intervals) as it takes the chasing paces out of it. As a novice marathon runner folks would probably be better off running a steady 10M than intervals anyway.
AR - Simple answer is don't run intervals! I don't like intervals becuase a) they hurt b) greater injury risk. But I have found 1 - 2mile intervals to be effective in improving my 10k - HM times and 800m intervals in improving my speed over 5k.
I had planned a load of intervals based around this programme (instead of the shorter P&D ones) for later weeks of my campaign. However from this discussion, I am now focusing on more specific progressive work instead which should have more relevance to improving marathon performance.
If you know that you have been injured in the past doing these, why risk doing them again? After all, 50% of the battle is making the startline fit and healthy, without injury.
AR - with regard to intervals - I tried them on a Dready a couple of times but couldn't work out if it was better to speed up and slow down the belt each time or just jump on and off. Eitherway it was a pain in the preverbial and much prefer to do them on the roads - and I probably agree with TR that it takes time for your body to adjust to the workload/impact/intensity of running intervals.
I would also ssecond Bike-It on the Hill repeats - there's a good summary on Athletic Weekly at the moment about hills and the various types - I'm a big fan of Kenyan Hills. How Hills Can Help
When it comes to running intervals I like to run longer ones on routes that I use for the rest of my running, ie not a track. The reason for this is the marathon is a road race and so I reckon it is better to simulate that as much as possible, there are not many marathons run on courses with 2 straights and 2 bends repeated - probably a little simplistic but I'm a simple guy...
I think you should ask Poacher about that...
Oi you, behave. Must admit that 35m 7-lap ultras can be a bit repetitive though.
Welcome new posters,
Fingers - fast maras are generally on the road, but isn't it usually more fun and more rewarding off road rather than tarmac bashing? There is even an underground mara in Germany, but that may be a bit weird.
Thanks all for comments. Hill Reps is the session I replaced all the P&D VO2 sessions last autumn, so I will be keeping up with those.
For the VO2 work, its more experiencing a bit of pace faster than HMP that I am after. The last HM race included 3 miles which were faster than I'd ever run - I'd have preferred to experience a bit of that in training as it freaked me out at the time
. I find it difficult to hit HMP in a LT session
With the crappy track surface I have available, concrete paths and cambered tamac I am treading carefully through 2013 on my 'say no to injury' capaign.
TR / RJ - I am in fact off on my 10m plod shortly, so the stuff you advise is being noted!!
Yes indeed - don't misunderstand me - it's more the twists and turns during the intervals as opposed to the surface that I like to represent - off road even better I suppose - it will help with leg/ankle strength.
AR – Have you ever tried very fast short hill sprints recommended by Brad Hudson for injury prevention? I started adding these to my training over the summer and have been completely niggle free every since. What’s more I really enjoy doing them.
Here’s an article about the hill sprints - http://running.competitor.com/2013/01/training/steep-hill-sprints_9050
Happy new year to all new and old.
Interesting re the intervals -Thanks for all for posting such helpful links- I got broke doing them last summer and have a repeat of the same injury within 1 week of running intervals at HM pace recently. Am enjoying reading the alternatives people employ as these are obviously a high risk marathon training option.
Off to the fizz tomorrow and may well get back in the saddle by running home.
To add the the debate I hate treadies but at times can be a necessary evil. Hill reps are essential. Especially if you live in a flat place and need to prep for hilly races. Best of all get to a hilly location now and then (e.g. the Lakes) and practice on the real thing.
8 miles around Derwentwater for me today. My first as a 50 year old- Birthday today
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OOly - Many Happy returns!!
Sounds like a great way to celebrate OO.
Now get some lunchtime beers downed!
Keir, running around Fremantle would be fine apart from the 31 hour non-stop road trip to drive there (or so google said) at the moment.
Lorenzo, theatre this afternoon.. Sans head torch? Hope it's not the type with bedgowns and gas.
Broke my dread mill virginity today, only 23mins (got kicked off) only allowed 20mins per cardio machine in the site gym, so a spot of rowing and cycling ensued. Also amused by the meatheads with skinny legs throwing weights around.
Can't join in on interval advice, typing on iPhone is a nightmare.
Looks like 20 minute interval sessions with 5 minute recoveries then Windy.
Happy birthday OO - out of curiosity how can you be sure you were the first to the top of Skiddaw on 1 Jan?
Definately no need for intervals AR in marathon training although I quite like them towards the end as sharpening.
How could you leave P&D for Paula Fingers?
Welcome to the returnees and newbies.
Managed 13 miles yesterday lunchtime - felt like heavy work after the 11 on Tuesday but thankfully today is a recovery run. Will probably use the dreadmill early evening to give the legs a break from the tarmac.
Happy birthday, OO.
For me the injury risk of high intensity work outweighs the benefits.
20 miles today (brought LSR forward because it's the South West Inter Counties Cross Country Championships on Sunday) to bring up 85M in 7 days. Ground out at 7.59m/m on very tired legs. Looking forward to 2 days *very* easy to let the legs freshen up!
Happy Birthday OO.
Strength excercises with a dumbell and kettlebell this lunchtime in the local park for me. Muscles jellified by the end.