RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30



  • Hi 2old, You don't seem to be resting much after the marathon? yes, it was a lovely weekend and can't think of a better place for you to spend it. Must have been glorious?

    Yes, I think TM's can be ok in small doses, for me anyway. I think in the future I will not be doing heavy mileage on them. Everyone is different and I know guys who have trained for marathons on them. Mo Farah was using one for a 10 mile run in his documentary? Maybe not for me going forward....short bursts I think image

    Hi Chick, All those drills will pay off in the end. You certainly sound busy image

    Yes I think the fact that it was a nice day and conditions good helped on Sunday. And just trying to stick to a 6:30 pace throughout helped considerably..

    5 milles yesterday and gym this morning. Club session tonight, think it is hills image


  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Chick-do you have access to a 50m pool? Lucky you.Like your training/exercise mix-I should do some of that too but limited time is my excuse

    Nell-'just stick to 6.30'...I wish. I once did 17.5 miles on a TM but I was watching a football match that went into extra time.I find them useful in training myself to get used to running at  a steady pace, particularly a new target pace. Ah 'hills'..they are on my to do list as well .Don't worry my priod of rest will come over the next few weeks

    7miles steady at 7.29 mm av yesterday. Might run at lunchtime or swim tonight

  • Hi 2old, Yes I do enjoy intervals on the TM. sorry didn't mean to sound blasé with the 6:30 comment.. What I meant was that I would try and pace myself and it worked as finished strong image

    5 miles this morning and working tomorrow, hopefully get a bit of rest tomorrow night and then Mens 10k Sunday...

  • 2old - great report. Sounds like it went so well. And what you have done since is insane!! Really at the top of your game!

    baz - good to see you picking it all up steadily. glad the hip is better. You've rested up well. Still can't believe you're gonna put yourself through it all again!!

    chick - good to see you're mixing it all up with your training. 

    Nell - what are your goals now??

    well my training is one step forward 2 steps back! I did my longest ever bike ride last Saturday at the wiggle sportive. 73 miles and loved it. Swam 80 lengths Monday and had the lane to myself which was great. Run 5 through the woods with my dog on Tuesday. Did a threshold run on Wednesday and tweaked my calf. image Friday was a 20 mile bike. And yesterday I did 60 miles with a guy from the village who runs a cycling club and we did 60 miles. Bit slower than normal. And I bloody fell off my bike. Really bruised my hip elbow and knee, and cut my hand badly which is swollen and blue! Tools of my trade so bit of a nightmare! Gonna rest today and hope it all goes down! Hey ho! 

  • Hi AA, Not good news on the fall. As long as you just have bruises I guess just being a bit gentle on yourself over the next few days should do the trick. I have no idea how people can swim 80 lengths, mind you that is coming from a guy who pulls his calf muscle every time he tries to race his son in the pool! My defence is that he attends a swimming club image.  That is some serious mileage there too AA... My immediate goals? I have hopefully got over the back/glute injury. It is feeling a lot better just over the last couple of days. So for the winter I hope to tick over and get in some strength training ready for the schedule late January for London.

    I think I am going to try and focus on 5/10k's where I can fit in over the next period to try and build up in that area. I do not do enough of these races... no excuse really image

    Attended the Mens 10k in Edinburgh this morning. Nice race through the city. Focused on trying to stick to the pace. The start is downhill and you can be tempted to fly off as I did last year and blow up. Came in on 38:13, splits: 6:28, 6:11, 6:21, 6:33, 6:22, 6:12, (0:05?) overall pace: 6:20. I think the course was short, hence the great time !

    I am happy with the pacing though, I managed to hold myself back at the start and felt strong at the end...that is something I intend to work on also AA image

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    AA-hope that bike fall wont cause any lasting damage.That's why Mrs 2O is not keen to see me on 2 wheels.You're notching up some big mileage but don't neglect your runsimageGreat swimming too-as always

    Nell-excellent 10k and finished with a bit to spare I think.Concentrating on the pace is what I'm trying to do too ....did you have a target or was it to keep between two eg 6.10 and 6.29? Would you recommend that race-guess it was well attended.


  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    I did the JWK Lancaster Half Marathon on Sunday,maybe a bit soon after Leicester two weeks ago but it was the only free weekend to fit in a race this month. Can't say I rested for it either as it brought up a 45mile week and I had  late nights Friday (pub crawl) and Saturday.I arrived at Lancaster castle to a freezing wind so I took a lot of self persuading to run in a vest which turned out to be ok with the race routed along the relatively sheltered paths by the Lune River north and then back. The start was fast and I held back as much as I could.Mile 2 caused a bit of a scare when my heart rate went sky high as I ran down and up an underpass but that settled and from then on I tried to keep my mile pace around 6.40 something. I ran with 2 others for 8 miles , then left them behind but then I was on my own and it felt tougher until I picked a couple of others off around 9/10 miles.From then on I followed a female runner just too far to catch.All good until the 13th mile which was a very steep short climb back up from river level to the castle and through its gates to finish.One guy passed me going up the hill but I caught him and passed him at the top.

    Finished in 88.43mins . Average 6.45mm. Not my fastest but quite happy with it in the circumstances. 33rd overall, 3rd V55 and 5th V50.


  • Hi 2old, The Mens 10k is great value. I think it was about £18 and you get to run through closed city centre streets, medal and T-Shirt at the end and finish in Murrayfield stadium. Not sure what happened this year as my Garmin seems to read a couple of hundred metres short on last year?

    All for a good cause though, and yes pretty well attended image

    To be honest 2old, I went out yesterday morning aiming not to get too hung up on times. After the injury before Amsterdam I have been concentrating on getting back to full fitness, and Amsterdam was a big wake up call to myself to get out there and enjoy the running more instead of aiming for times and targets all the time. Don't get me wrong this is what motivates us all too. But I decided I need a bit more balance.

    Yesterday I wanted to try and stick to 6:15-20mm pace if I could. There was a bit of down and up in places and where I hit 6:33 there is a climb on that mile that took me down to 6:56 last year as I had flew off at the start, so happy I kept the pace pretty much stable. Think I held back a bit too much at start, but not complaining.

    Do you have a target for London 2old?

    Sure I heard one of the Triathlon guys I train with saying a guide to Olympic Triathlon training is 2-2-2 sessions for the week?

    Gym session this morning..

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭
    Nell- I know what you mean about targets. I often decide to go with the flow then a red mist comes down on me and I feel I have to go for it. Not sure it's the best way to learn about myself and what I can do . Sounds a good value race . As for London -I'm getting near 60 and sub3 is getting tantalisingly near I would love to give it a go before it's too late if it's not already too late. I probably lack the basic speed really but isn't it just a case of me running my HM time twice What about you?My Olly training this year was to swim 3times a week , run 5/6, times and spin once and get on the bike a week before the race . Not the best plan really . Thinking of giving it a go?

    A slow swim of about a mile just completed
  • Nell - very tasty  x country and 10k.  And of course what else is running about apart from the enjoyment.image.

    2old - And talking of tasty ,very well done on the HM, you are on fire at the moment and aiming for sub 3 that would be a major milestone but with your current form why not. Love your tri training.

    AA - Unlucky with the fall, I've come close but not hit the floor yet. Hope you heal quickly , your training is going very well.  Yeah I think I must love the punishmentimage.

    Chick - well done with the swimming, i'll never be quick but can do the distance OK, keep at it and I've found you'll suddenly go to the next level and become quicker or swim a further distance.

    I'm still ticking over  swim/gym one day and bike/run the next. TM runs are not causing any issues so far so maybe venture out on to the road this week.

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Barry-great time for you  to venture out on the road-wind ice rain mud dark-enjoy.I think I'm not fast enough for sub 3-I need more of your and Nell's natural speed. Do you think my tri training method would work for a half IM?image

    Didn't fancy it outside last night so spent 1.45 mins watching tv on the treadmill for an easy 20k . My body is telling me to have a break which makes sense as base training for London starts next month.

  • Hi Barry, Glad to hear you are ticking over well. Yes, as 2old said you should be ready to get outside just in time for the weather image

    Hi 2old, You are nearing the sub 3 area. I think I got 3:04 in York the October before I broke sub 3 in London. I guess you can tell from your MP runs. My MP runs peak at 10 miles. If I am hitting MP pretty much throughout that run, then I find that a good indicator. You will see how you feel in training. Maybe time to give the body a rest before you crank back up?

    I had a nice 6 miler yesterday morning. Getting cold though now. Long sleeves and gloves on, but still in the shorts

    Gym this morning and club tonight. Think I will join the interval group tonight..

  • AA: Sorry to hear about the fall. Hope that at least the hand is back in working order. I can't fathom such long bike rides. Or swims ...   maybe one day image

    Yep, very lucky here in Hamburg. The Alsterschwimmhalle has a 50m pool and they open the doors at 6:30 without charging extra. All other pools in town force you to join a "swim club" for 20 odd quid per month so you can swim before work. It's a pure sports pool without fancy kid's entertainment stuff, so just right up my alley. But 80 lengths, my word image. I'm happy to do 10 at the mo ...

    Excellent running by the boys there - Nell and 2old. I would agree with Nell on the 10 mile MP runs. When I used to do HADD properly I did 2 of those per week and during the past couple of marathons my pace on those runs would end up being a realistic and sustainable marathon pace.

    Barry: hope you can hit the road again soon but the treadie is a good alternative.

    Lots of snow here today so off to the gym I went at lunchtime. Got 4 miles done and a bit of core work. Yoga tonight.

    For once I'm glad I have nothing planned other than getting fit again. This early outbreak of winter wouldn't have been much for base training image

  • Hi Chick, snow early, that is not good image Two MP runs per week? Hardcore! Don't think I could manage that...


    Club running last night and 10 x 400M. Split up into groups of three and I get the fastest runner in the club followed by another who was just as fast. I was bringing up the rear! Averaging around 1:20ish give a few either side depending how near I was to blowing up..... Stretching today image

  • At my pace you could image  those 400s were fast image

    Gym planned tonight. The snow is almost gone, thank god. I wasn't really prepared.

    Hope everyone has a good weekend.

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Nell-good to see your runs getting faster. It seems to have warmed up here again so I will continue in shorts for the time being too. Your MP runs are faster than mine.I tended to be around 7.15mm for 8-10 miles both for the recent marathon and London so I'm not sure where the 7.06 and 7.01 mm averages came from .I guess its the cumulative effect LRs ,MLRs and park runs? What's your London target?

    Chick-nice mix of training and very lucky having that 50m pool -even I would swim more with that near and for free.Good to hear that snow has arrived...should have a nice base for my skiing in the Alps.

    Nothing since my last TM run. Had a long weekend in Valencia watching the MotoGP motorcycle racing. Couldn't help wishing I could run around the track and frustrated to see the marathon is in the city next week. Barry didn't you do that one?Looks like a fast flat course.Put on nearly 3 kilos so better get back to it.


  • Chick - Great mixed training for you. 50m pool sounds wonderful, not many turns in  OW swimming.

    2old -  Yes Valencia was a year ago for me, great course but a little too hot that day, loved the place.

    Nell - Nice pacy running.

    Mixed training continues but on a positive note I've managed two very short road runs this week and all good.

  • Hi Chick, Yes could do without the snow just yet!

    Hi 2old, Yes the weather is a bit up and down at the moment. It has gone milder here lately. But tonight at the club it was cooler and I think getting cold towards the weekend. Park runs and shorter distances will help that pace no doubt. No target as yet for London. After Amsterdam which was a bit of a wake up call I want to get more of the enjoyment out of running. It would be great to go under 2:56, but I am not going to beat myself up over it. Practising pacing properly at the moment..image

    Hi Barry, Glad to hear you have managed to get a couple of road runs in. Great news image

    Last Sunday met up with a group at the Pentland Hills and did a 8.5 mile run, hitting about 500M climbs. We got the best of the day in the morning luckily. 5 mile run there from home to warm up and managed to get a lift back 1 mile from home.

    Tuesday met up with a fellow runner and performed hill reps. Haven't done them for a while and they hurt! Only the two of us, everyone else wimped out.

    Tonight club run. 4 x 400, 1 x 1 mile, 4 x 300, 1 x 1200, 2 x 200. Good session. Hit 400's 5:45-50 pace, mile at 6mm pace, 300's at 5:20-30, 1200 at 6:14mm pace and 200's at 5:12mm  pace. The shorter sessions killed me on the 1200 image Good to get back into a good session though, will no doubt feel it later!


  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Barry-very pleased to see your return to the road is going well .Keep it going. It was a bit warm when I was in Valencia too.I prefer running in the cold

    Nell-Looks like you're doing a mixture of  quality runs every week ...I'm suffering a bit from cnba'd especially as its always dark and now wet and windy.That short session looks tough.

    Did 20 miles on Tuesday but nothing yesterday .Need to raise my game . 

  • Hi 2old, Yes that session is a little toughie, especially on the back of hill reps and the group I like always has some fast guys in it image

    20 miles! why?

    Yes, I agree it is getting that time of year where it is hard to drive motivation with nights and crap weather. Hence, why I am trying to stick with the groups for motivation...

    Looks like a bright, but cool morning tomorrow, so I may head out to the Pentland hills for a bit more off road running.. 

  • Evening all

    some great training going on. 

    Chick - snow?? 

    ive been ticking over trying to get a mix of tri training in. its hard in the winter hey. Mixing it all up nicely until I start an ironman program. Love following some of you on strava. Nell/chick are you on it??

  • Having a real wobble. I ran a marathon 7 Weeks ago. I did a 12 miler on Thursday. I've been doing lots of cycling and swimming. Now...can I run another marathon in 4 weeks? and if so, how should I train for it??! 

  • Hi AA, I haven't got myself on Strava, maybe I will have to have a look at that...With your previous training for the last marathon and your all round experience. You would be able to run the marathon and get around it. You probably won't run a PB.

    Maybe concentrate on upping the mileage over the week not running a big LR. maybe next weekend run a 6,14 Sat, Sun then a 8,16 and a 8,14 then marathon?

    Get some MP sessions during the week, as well as some intervals to sharpen up. 4 x 1.5 miles, 3 x 2 miles (with 800M recoveries), 5 x 1 mile with 400 M recoveries. Run these at MP -10 secs


    A run up the Pentland Hills yesterday. Cold, but lovely clear pictures, my hands were too cold (the Raynauds kicking in as usual!)

    Back on the road this morning and 8.5 miles at 7:10mm average and managed to keep the pace stable...

  • 2old - Yeah your training will be fine up to Half distance tri.  Love the way you keep dropping in the 20 milers,  you are a machine.

    Nell - You are running well, lots of races planned? yeah get yourself on strava.

    AA - which marathon are you doing?

    My progress continues, 5 miles on the road, very slow, yesterday.  Started my 30 week IM plan today, was meant to be rest but had to juggle already so 2.5k swim and 30min run.

    Fame at last for me, friend of mine was in Valencia for the marathon this weekend and there were big posters on the roads advertising it and there was one of me from last years race, I will try and put a photo of it one here.

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    AA-another one in 4 weeks ?Which one?You could do what I tend to do in the last 4 weeks- wk4-20m LR, 12m MLR, 10m tempo/mp , wk3 18m LR, 11m MLR, 8m tempo/mp, wk2-13mLR , 8m MLR, 8m tempo/mp, wk 1 7m with 3mp rest.If I cant get the 20 in week 4 I change the 18 to 20 in week 3. But then again Nell's plan is more sensible image Wonder how the cross training translates into marathon conditioning?Good luck.

    Nell- I did 20 because I got carried away on my 16 mile plan.It was a bit tough as it was my first long run since Leicester.Anyway it proved I still had the distance in my legs.I read your varied training with the eyes of a green eyed monster-I am struggling to run consistently at the moment.I know what you mean about the cold-I couldn't undo my laces after my run on Friday.What will be your next race?And yes...give Strava a look.

    Barry- any nerves an starting the schedule or just the thought its a long time ahead of you? Looks like your running is continuing to go well. I saw the photo -its everywhere in the city-pity I didn't realise it was you.I was in a photo advertising the Southport sprint tri in a group waiting to start the swim-I'm the only one looking the wrong way.

    17 mile LR on Friday in horrible weather-my face was stinging in the hale showers.37 for the week.Nothing this weekend and a 2k slow swim and 7.5m on the TM yesterday.I might run 100 miles this month if I'm lucky.

  • AA: wtf??  I guess the answer is yes but be prepared for it to hurt real bad ... but if you go at it with no expectations and adopt an early run/walk strategy it may even be fun.

    2old: 20 miles image   I'm not sure I'll ever run 20 miles again ...

    Barry: image  looking forward to the pic image

    I'm not on strava. Bit pointless at the mo anyway as I rarely venture outside and stick to the comfy warmth of the gym making the most of my membership. I enjoy short stuff on the treadie, various classes and strength work. And I still struggle with the technical side of swimming image  If I get my arms right I forget my breathing or my core sags, if my position in the water is good and my breathing fine I forget the high elbow and so forth. I hope it'll fall into place one fine day. Still, I'm glad I signed up for another course to master the technique as I wouldn't notice the tons of mistakes I'm making.

    Did a 5k tempo run this morning (12-13 kph on the treadie which is pedestrian for most of you but rather fast for me these days) followed by spin class. I varied the incline between 1 and 2.5% because a static incline gives me blisters.

  • 2old -  looking forward to the plan, with a little bit of apprehension avg of 12 hours per week but peaks at 20 hours, starts of nice and gentle though. nearly as famous as me thenimage

    Chick - Keep on with the technique side of swimming it will make you faster and more efficient, i'm not very flexible across the shoulders so high elbow non existent more like a swinging arm,  I think I will never be better than average at swimming but as long as I can do the distance I'm happy.

    30 mins bike and straight into 15 mins runs for me today.

  • Hi Chick, I don't know about the technical side. I just struggle with swimming in itself image

    Hi Barry, That is fabulous. Great picture, although after your report last year I guess that was earlier on? Glad you are building up on the road miles..

    Hi 2old, Yes, the hands were stinging a bit last Saturday! I know what you mean, a lot of the guys who usually run on a Tuesday night have gone AWOL. I think a lot of folk are looking at getting back after Christmas now. It has just been the two of us. But helps with the motivation...

    Interval session for me last night. We used a stretch of cycle path and went 5,10,15,20,25 lampposts. . Pace started 5:09mm, 5:19, 5:30, 5:52 and 6:05 Distance going from 170.310,460,600, 740 M. Then 5 x 5 to finish off,  pace was roughly 5:00mm for the last five which were all about 150M. even managed to dip under 5 and get 4:50 and 4:57mm a couple of times.

    Nothing really planned for me at the moment until after the New Year. I was hoping to get some XC in, but most of the races are in the afternoon which doesn't fit in the household image

    I have been hitting the gym also to build up strength Mon, Tues and Wed morning this week!


  • Club session last night. Bit cold and ice on the ground. Tempo run 1 mile warm up, then 3.5 miles tempo, 1 Mile jog and then 2.5 miles Tempo, 0.5 M cool down. Running at around 6:30mm pace.

    Gym this morning.

    My back is a bit uncomfortable and stiff. Not sure whether the two back to back night sessions are good for it. I may have to ease off a bit and try and get it back to normal.

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