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VT aggree with you on the Hadd training up to a marathon..
Good runs Brian and BD.
80% day for me again. The by now bog standard run of 10 miles in just over 71 minutes at 160 BPM. Still a bloody hard run on the legs. First 3 miles a little too fast but settled down to 7:10-7:15 from then until the end with no drift.
Thats a hilly run SC, no wonder your HR is a little all over the place/
Hi there, I'll delurk having been following for a while. I have been doing 6 weeks of approx 40 miles/week at mostly 70-75% of max HR and am really pleased not to have had any injuries so far. I would never have been able to do 5 or 6 runs a week without damaging something before as I was generally running about 1-2 mins/mile faster in all situations.
I did a 2.4k test at the start of week 1 and have just done my second one this evening 6 weeks later.
The stats are below:
The course I do is twice around the block so works out at 1.44 miles which is slightly below 2.4k but I can't believe that makes a huge difference. I must admit I was expecting to see bigger improvements.
I am doing VLM next year and so was thinking of P&D but now I'm thinking of trying to squeeze some more toothpaste at 80% before going up to P&D speeds.
How often does anyone else do the 2.4k test or are you all relying on data from your normal runs.
Ah. The table didn't exactly paste as I expected! Any tips for doing it properly?
Got my long run in early this week. 16 miles @ 8:25 m/m @73% in the rain. Good relaxed pace...HR was stable.
quick question folks - lets say i am following a running plan which has me running 4 days a week. I want to increase my mileage and i want to run 6 or 7 days a week say. Would i see benefits if i ran the additional 2 or 3 days at very low HADD type heart rates or do you only see benefits if you go completely HADD? The 4 days of running I am already doing are not at HADD type heart rates and i don't want to change those.
The easiest/ safest way is to probably just put in some slow recovery runs the day after your hard efforts instead of taking the day off. I guess you could call them "short Hadd runs" but I didn't think its really embracing the philosophy. Its just an easy way to add mileage/ days to your program.
I just figured by doing some long runs at a low heart rate in addition to the 'normal' running that i am doing i may be able to lower my heart rate at any given pace, over time. I know this effect is going to be much improved if i follow HADD properly but for now I was wondering if i would get that effect by mixing some low heart rate runs with higher heart rate running each week.
I guess the hard part would be doing enough miles without compromising the other runs you are doing? More slow miles certainly won't hurt, injuries notwithstanding,
Ahhh yes i see what you mean. Makes sense.
I am definitely going to focus on lowering my heart rate at any given pace after my marathon in April. I think I will just wait till then to do this.
hollers, welcome. I think the improvement potential within Hadd depends on how aerobically fit you are to start off with. But you have seen improvement, albeit a small one. I think the content of your 6 weeks training defines the relative improvement also. Have you been doing 5 or 6 similar length runs?
The improvement should gather momentum when you move up to 80% (and get your long run to 2hrs), and therefore I would be give it another 6 weeks at least.
What is your background, and why Hadd?
Khanivore, think Gaz has hit the nail on the head really. The extra miles will have some benefit aerobically, and it would be sensible to do these easy as it will minimise the risk of injury.
Ding Dong - completed 40 mins (within 75mins) last night at 80%. I'm taking on board what you said about sticking with HADD as long as possible - I did my run last night before I saw your reply to my question and afterwards felt as though I should be staying with HADD rather than a specific race plan. Plenty of time for that in the future. Just didn't feel as though a) I want to change and b) really feel that if I introduce some harder workouts that are not HADD based I could end up with an injury.
Here are my stats for last night (since starting the 80% runs the 75% HR pace has dropped considerably) - last mile was just cooling down;
Distance Split time Avg. HR1.00 10:51 130 (71%)2.00 10:41 132 (72%)3.00 9:30 145 (79%)4.00 9:35 145 (79%)5.00 9:26 145 (79%)6.00 9:56 146 (80%)7.00 11:33 136 (75%)
My 70%-75% pace is now 40 secs faster than when I started (15 weeks) and my 80% pace is faster than I ran my last Half in June. The 4th and last split on the 80% section shows I have a way to go as this was 25-30secs slower
Hollers - good to see you on the thread - seeing improvements seems to happen slowly with HADD at first. Once the base is built up (and that depends on your current level of aerobic fitness) then things start to happen (see my note on my pace improvement above). I'm a bloated dinosaur compared to some of the peops on this thread so if it works for me it can work for anyone provided they have the patience For the stats I use ST3 and simply copy and paste.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why we're here:
"My 70%-75% pace is now 40 secs faster than when I started (15 weeks) and my 80% pace is faster than I ran my last Half in June."
BD - sing it from the rooftops. Don't you just love it when a plan comes together.
BD2000, take a bow...........
Training report: Oh joy! I decided to make the recovery run up to 70mins today, and it was one of those runs that comes along every blue moon where you feel as though you could run all day! I'm absolutely flabbergasted cos I ran my nuts off yesterday, and then worked hard in the gym this morning! But hey ho, I'll take it.
9.32 miles in 73:55, 7:56 pace HRav 123 (66.8%)
Into my 5th week of HM training and I do believe I have turned a corner.
7.56m/m @ 67%! Hope you found your nuts Brian. Well done on sticking to the time and pace planned. It is days like this where it is so easy to think ' wow, I feel great' and spontaniously go longer / faster - only to 'use up' that good energy.
When I used to be a racing cyclist - on 'float days' like you've had today I would deliberately turn back home and not train in an attenpt to save the great feeling in the legs for race day.
Some really good running here again.
Im off to do 15 miles soon.
My opinion on marathon training is that you can HADD all the way to it. Alternate a longer 80% and a shorter 90% run each week.
Welcome Hollers and Khan.
Fantastic work BD. When is your next race?
Thank you Brian (and to everyone here) - I have to say without this thread I may not be as far down the road as I am. May not have believed in myself or HADD without it
Brian - well done on the 70min recovery run - looks like we both achieved something to shout about
We Three - next race is Silverstone HM - 3rd March
Isn't there a local race sooner where you could test yourself? It might be useful to provide a target pace for the HM.
That's a fab improvement BD
spen, enjoy the 15miler.
Inspired by someone asking about the 2.4k test, I had a look back at my log. I started hadding after an horrendous year of injury (2005), in desperation I turned to the Church of Hadd (Hallelujah!). I did my tests in the gym on the treadie with the gradient set to 1%. Here are my first 2: (The figs in brackets are the kph speeds and the HRav)
GYM - 2.4K TEST 8.8 90ISH 28/10/05
130 - 13:13 (11.3-11.0 / 129)
140 - 12:30 (12.0-11.4 / 140)
150 - 11:55 (12.3 / 148)
160 - 11:22 (13.0 / 156)
170 - 10:40 (13.8 / 164)
My training weekly mileage then went 46-56-59-71-62-77 (yes - I got a bit carried away!)
and the next 2.4k test went:
GYM - 2.4K TEST 8.8 90ISH 09/12/05
130 - 12:24 (11.9 / 126)
140 - 11:23 (13.0 / 135)
150 - 10:39 (13.7 / 146)
160 - 10:05 (14.5 / 155)
170 - 9:33 (15.5 / 164)
I carried on getting carried away and lost 2006 to injury. But..... 2007 was full of pb's.
Hope you find the stats interesting.
Keir - there are 10K races on 30th Dec and 27th Jan in Stratford
OR - I could go on a club run which is usually 6 miles - 10K. I haven't been for a while as I was going too fast trying to keep up with everyone and getting myself injured. My target pace is 9m/m to get under the 2 hours.
I'm trying to build up my 80% runs, increasing them by 10mins each week (40 mins at present) but I want to be careful and not overdo it.
Brian - haven't even attempted a 2.4k test - I'll leave it until after March HM when I've recovered - impressive improvement in just over 6 weeks.
Hi all great thread going on, read it every night when I get home from work.
Well as promised FWIW, my thoughts on HADDing the last year.
70% runs now easier over any distance 5-18 miles
Last years 10 mile race pace now 82% training runs.
Very little speed work gave me 55 sec BP on my 5k
Day 2 of P&D schedule today
Felt really good nice and fresh could have done another 10
I ran it by HR and dead chuffed as I felt better and better as the run went on
My actual max hr is 187 resting 48
Todays run 11 .5 miles
AVE HR 134 71.1% MAX 149
1 9.21 134 2 9.24 1353 9.33 1354 9.21 1365 9.23 1356 9.11 1337 9.04 1338 8.56 1339 8.50 13410 8.51 13511 8.59 13411.5 4.42 135