RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00



  • Not quite following the 12 week plan I have strictly but pretty loosely...hopefully though it will get me through. If I cannot manage the longer miles in the week I have been upping the pace on some of the runs. Needs be and all that, hopefully it will do the trick!

  • Good luck for your 20 miler Nell.

    I did my first run since the marathon today. Ventured to the Aberdeen parkrun for the first time. Had planned to jog round in 27 mins or so as I don't feel all that recovered, but on arrival decided my legs weren't TOO sore and I felt strong(ish) CV wise.

    Unlike the Edinburgh run, aberdeen doesn't have KM markers which is very frustrating for a non Garmin wearer like myself who doesn't know where she is on the course. Once I realised this I didn't bother looking at my watch the whole way round as there was no point, only looked at the end so was surprised and delighted to cross the line in 23:56, my sore wee legs are proud of themselves to do sub 24 so soon after Loch Ness.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭



    My parkrun from this morning.

    Preparation was not great for my run this morning. Got up late as I was whacked after the last week. Probably still recovering from last weeks trip stateside (and I need to go back next week which was never planned).

    Grabbed a little water to try and hydrate before the run.

    Left my house with 12 minutes to go and jogged the 0.75 miles there.

    Once again there was a big crowd, circa 150 runners.

    I got caught at the back of the pack at the start and lost time trying to get past a runner with a dog on a leash who kept weaving in front of me. But settled into a steady pace. Alot of overtaking in the first circuit of the park.

    Completed mile 1 in circa 7:30 min.

    Mile 2 was tough. The recent lack of speed training caught up with me as did the fact that I felt I had no energy. This mile was a little slower eventhough nobody passed me out which gave me some encouragement.

    During mile 3 I felt a little light headed (I do not think I was as hydrated as I should have been) but steadied myself to finish strong in 23:41.

    This was some 20s slower than my first attempt but I was happy with that as a warmup for tomorrow.

    My plan tomorrow is to treat it as a training run not a full on race so I will aim to run a tad faster than MP but not full HM pace. Makes sense to me.

    Hope everyone is well and well done Ali for a great run today.


  • Good on you Carl, that's a lotta hill for 5k. Great time still.

    you travel a lot with work- what kind of business are you in? I imagine it really takes its toll. I travel a couple of times a month for work but normally just one or two nights at a time and always get pissed off at how much it throws out my routine.

  • Well done on the Parkruns Ali & Carl - I still haven't popped my Parkrun cherry!

    Nell I am planning a long run also in the morning. Three weeks out from Dublin now (think you are 3 weeks out from yours also?) so in two minds to run my 6th & final 20 miler in the morning or run 16 and then run my final 20 next Sunday. I kind of think a 3 week taper is too long for me & 2 weeks might suit me better?

    Ran 11 miles last night @ 7.50ish pace and felt strong. No running today but 18 holes of golf on a glorious Autumn afternoon image

    Carl - good luck tomorrow! I bet the red mist comes down and you end up racing it!

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Ricky - thanks. Going to try and keep the red mist away.

    I am planning on doing a 20 mile run next weekend and just 2 weeks taper as per Carters suggestion.

    You have been running very strong so have loads of miles and endurance build up. As you have run so many 20 milers you might want to do your last one this weekend and save something for marathon day. But you know your body better tha anyone.

    I am expecting a massive PB from you in Dublin. image

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Ali - you are right. It is hilly and the third hill is a killer. I am determined to get this 5k down to around 22 minutes over the next couple of months.

    I work on big capital investment type projects and my current project involves trains and signalling. This is what gives rise to the travel as some of my contractors have facilities and offices in multiple locations around the world. I was not expecting this much travel when I started this job at the beginning of the year but that's life image.

    But it does mess about with routine. It is hard to run outside as you never quite get the time and I find it hard to do much more than an hour on the dreaded treddie. I tend to overheat.

    I guess this is what plays on my mind when I thin k about Dublin. With my ankle injury post Paris, it only left me with a 12 week schedule and not the ideal of 18 weeks. And things have got in the way. So I just have no knowing how I will perform on the day. I am confident that Ricky has turned into a running robot and will nail it. I on the other hand could do well and beat my sub 4 hours (anything around 3:45 would be brilliant) or I could blow up.


  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    All porridged up ready early ready to go. A bit grey here in London today but at least it is dry. Still not completely settled on my race pace for today but we will see how I feel when standing on the start line at 9am.

  • Good luck Carl! Enjoy the race.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    Good luck Carl!

    Your parkrun inspired me to go out and do a timed (by me...) 5K today, as for one reason or another I haven't done a parkrun for a few weeks.

    There's an industrial estate near me that my running club use for various interval sessions as it is pancake flat, and it's very quiet when everything is shut (evenings and Sundays), apart from the odd learner driver.  It's 2 miles from my house, so I jogged down there and warmed up.  I had set my Garmin up to count down from 5K so altough I know it's not 100% accurate the Garmin read 21:38 for the 5K effort.  My PB at a flat parkrun is 21:29 so I was pleased with my effort this morning, and then I jogged the 2 miles home.

    Ali - I was just reading back through and noticed you asked me about my target pace for Dartmoor Vale, which is in a couple of weeks.  My PB from May is 4hrs08 and I feel I'm pretty much at the same level of fitness as I was then (I'm a couple of pounds lighter, but I'm not noticeably quicker judging from my training).  However, Dartmoor Vale is hilly, but to partly counteract that the marathon I did in May was hot and it should be cooler in two weeks time.

    I'm beating around the bush, but to answer your question I'm not sure what pace to go out at yet!  I could surprise myself and sneak under 4hrs, or I could have a tough time and go over 4:30.  I expect I'll end up somewhere in between (I'm not really expecting I'll PB due to the course profile) so I will probably go out at 9:00-9:15 min/mile and see how I feel.  There are quite a few club mates who are running who are around my level so I may run with them and just try and enjoy it.  I'll see.

  • Your half times and successes on long runs say to me you could get under 4 G if you just pace yourself well and run confidently. Great 5k. I reckon having done 2 5ks now that if I did some more and got the feel for them i could come in under 23 mins soon enough. 

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    So Royal Parks HM done. Got the t-shirt so to speak. Course profile below.


     When I woke up this morning it was dark and grey.

    When I got out of a pcked tube it was bright and sunny. Queues for the baggage area were slow so I dropped my bag with 4 mins to go to the start. A bit of a mad dash to the start and joined the back of the green pen (1:30 to 1:55 predicted finish).

    It took the best part of 10 minutes to get over the start line and this decided the pace for me. Too many people to do much so I decided that I would try and run a little under 8 min/mile.

    Ran the first 5 miles relatively strong. 8:02; 7:51; 7:49; 7:58 and 7:39.

    Course narrowed during mile 6 as we came back past Buckingham Palace and up to Marble Arch. Had to slow down as I could not get past people.

    Mile 6 8:02.

    Back into Hyde Park. Great crowds. Beautiful morning.

    Next 3 miles were so so. Again the fileld was bunching up in places. Completed these in 7:54; 8:02 and 7:57.

    Mile 10 was brutal as I cramped up. This has never happened to me running before. At one point I had drifted out to 9:40 miling but recovered to complete this mile in 8:20.

    It was then just a case of grinding it out. Completed the last 3 miles in 7:55; 7:59 and 7:50.

    Onto the home straight and I gave it what was left covering the last 0.2 miles (according to my Garmin) at 6:34 miling pace.

    Crossed the line in 1:44:42.

    Happy with this. A really good workout.

    This suggests that a sub 3:45 marathon is probably about right for me and I think I will run Dublin with that as the goal.

    More later when I have recovered. image

  • Great effort Carl - well done! Not one for @PB in any case by the sounds of the congestion.

    Thats a sharp 5k  BigG - sounds like u are good place presently. 

    20 MLR this morn 2:53 avg pace 8:43 - I didn't feel up for it at all and legs were tired & heavy from the off. Had to be mentally tough to get thru it if I'm honest. I'm screwed if I feel like that on race day! Hoping its just a bit of fatigue from all the back to back 20 milers over the last while. (in the last 5 weeks I have run four 20 milers & PBd @ HM)

    Thinking ill start to taper now after all - certainly in terms of long runs. I now have six 20 milers in the tank so that will hav to do.

  • Ricky I think you should taper now. Nothing is worse than regretting too much hard work just before race day because you're exhausted and can't get excited about racing. The taper will do you good. 6 20 milers is fab- we're they all on your plan? It seems a lot! not that that's a bad thing.

    carl- well done, super race. Great last 3 miles! Think you're on for 3:45 definitely image You should be delighted with this as a last HM effort before Dublin- enjoy the rest of your day and celebrate.

  • Hi Carl, Good running. Take the positives out of todays run and concentrate on your 20 miler next week. Looks like you are in a better place than you actually think ;0)

    Hi Ricky, You have had a really good run of training up to your marathon and I think you are reading and taking notice of what your body is telling you. If it is any use to you, I have had a look back on my training sessions up to Edinburgh earlier this year as I was in the same position as you. I had ran plenty of 20 & 22 milers and I think the body was fed up! I ran a 20 this week of the training and then a 16 and 10 the following weeks. I felt it did me good especially dropping down to 10 the week before, which was a nice 8 min/mile paced run along the canal.

    Hi Big_G, have you been putting in hills on to your runs in preparation for the marathon?

  • I ran a 20 miler today and used it as a bit of a tester, aiming to run between 8:00-8:15 min/miles to see how I got on. I ended up running the 20 in 2:23, with the Garmin reporting average pace of 8:06 min/miles The run felt good, I have cut out the run on the Saturday morning and run on the Friday morning instead. I find that gives me time to recover before the long run. Last 2 miles were up hill with a bit of trail this was to test me at that stage of the run, which was fine. I slowed down on the pace here but I am trying not to burn myself out. Plus I had two dogs to deal with who decided that they were not too keen on me! Never have this trouble early in the morning during the week....

    I am in the same place as Carl, where I have only been on a 12 week plan and do get the feeling that I have missed out on elements of training. In the last 5 weeks I have ran an 18, 0 (disaster week), 18, 20, 20 miler LSR with the last 2 runs feeling good. I feel like I am actually getting back into things. I have not run the same amount of miles in the week as I did on the last plan, but oddly I feel it may be doing me good on the LSR as I have a bit more life in the legs.

    Next week I will go for 18-20 miles and then will come down to 10-12 the week before the run. I hope the weather stays mild   image

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Ricky - seems to me that you are a little fatigues and that the 'ol body needs a little recovery time. Start you taper, bring the LSR's down and suggest you run 10 miles for your LSR the week before. Concentrate on keeping the shorter faster stuff midweek and you will reach teh start line in Dublin as fit as a fiddle and ready to set a new PB.image

    Nell - That is a seriously fast 20 mile run. You seem to be in a great place both from a pace point of view and mentally. As you say missing some runs might actually do you some good as you have got some good miles in and seem to be fresher than earlier this year.

    Big_G - I think you will surprise yourself in a few weeks time. You club sessions have ben hard and fast. You nailed a great 5k time. Just get your pacing right and you will easily get sub 4.

    I am pleased with today's run. I did not set out to really go for it from the minute I started as there were just too many people to get past. I mentally set myself a target of 1:45 and wanted to run a fairly even pace at just sub 8 min miling.

    So despite the stomach cramp at 10 miles (probably from getting my fuelling wrong during the race) I more or less nailed this.

    I am taking the positives from it. I demonstrated to myself that I can control my pace. If I do something like this in Dublin I should be coming home aroun 3:45 which would be a big PB for me.

    With not as much training as is ideal, it would be unwise to aim for anything much faster. If I do, I could easily blow up from putting too much pressure on.

    So I am clear on my race strategy.

    Just need to get one more decent LSR in. So this week I will get some fast stuff in whilst away and do a 20 miler next Saturday. That will allow me 2 weeks taper which I hope will give me the recobvery time needed.

  • Nell & Ali - thanks for that you have both confirmed that its time to taper! Nell great pacey 20 miler looks like you are nicely set for 3.30 - the fact that you were comfortable at that pace with plenty in the tank has to be a great confidence booster for you?

    Ali - I'm following the P&D 55 mile p/week plan with some tweaks. So, no, 6 x 20 milers aren't in this plan - I think there was only 2 or 3 which made me uneasy. The lack of speedwork in the plan also didn't sit well with me so I replaced one of the weekly recovery runs with a speed session at the club each week.

    Carl - you will be privileged to meet the white Kenyan in Dublin. He only committed his entry on the last day (1st Oct) as he pulled his calf on a interval session with me a couple of weeks ago and had over a week with no running. Like you his training hasn't been ideal - his longest run has been his two HM's @ Waterside & GNR yet he is targeting 3:30! He is sharing a room with me so hopefully you will join us for the pre-race evening meal ..... that reminds me I must (a) email hotel requesting a quiet room (b) investigate where to eat on the sun evening. image

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    Nell, yes I've been getting some hills in.

    This is a fairly typical LSR profile.


     ...and this is a fairly typical recovery-type run so although there is a lot of flat, there are still a couple of hills thrown in.


    The Wednesday interval session at the Club varies from week to week but this is what I did last Wednesday.  After jogging from the club meeting point, it was a lampost shuttle run in teams of 3 where you run hard on the efforts.  This was tough; I still felt it in my legs 3 days later!  It was good fun though!


    I do find though that I what I lose on the uphill sections I don't gain back on the downhills.  For example on the steep bits I may be down at 11/12/13min/mile going up, but I never make that back on the way down.

    The 5K I did yesterday was pretty much as flat as I can get.  The 5K effort was from just after the end of the 2nd mile.


    I am even debating walking the big hill that is in the marathon (I get to enjoy it twice) to keep me fresher for the rest of it.  I'm not sure yet.

  • Hi Big_G, You seem to have a good mix on your runs so hopefully you will be appropriately conditioned. I do also find that I do not make up a lot of speed downhill. When I run downhill I keep the cadence high to keep my feet underneath me (back to the ITB issues!) so that in turn means I do not power down the hills. What it does do though is preserve my energy and not hammer my quads. I found that back in August on the HM, a lot of the guys were leaving me on the downhill section only for me to catch them up on the uphill. I took this as a great confidence boost on the run and going forward on other runs...

    Hi Ricky, Yes I think you know your body and you have plenty of good runs behind you to start the taper now I would have thought.

    Hi Carl/Ricky, yes it was a fast LSR, but I wanted to test my fitness levels and thought 4 weeks before the race would be ok to do this. I had some doubts in my mind as with the way work has been I have had some not so enjoyable sessions where I was pushing and grinding them out also I don'yt feel I have put in the appropriate miles.. The last two LSR have felt a lot better. I think having a good rest on the Saturday has done me well. I was contemplating a 18-20 miler next week, but a friend who is a sub 3 hr has advised a fast 13 miler. I am swithering between the two now. One, I think the fast run would be good for fitness level and Two, the LSR for my endurance levels. I have only ran the two 20 milers I may chin the physio on this later, but she is a speed merchant so I think  know what she would tend to lean towards....image

  • G you may find that during training you can't make up pace you lose on the uphill, but in a race you will. In the run up to LN I did contemplate similar to you tackling the 'big hill' very slowly, I thought about walking parts...  Then on the day, the adrenaline and the competitiveness in me just kept me going, I didn't even do a single mile approaching 10/mile pace despite the fact I never would have managed a hill like that as fast in training. Go with the flow on the day.

    Carl- yes you paced really well in your HM! Key for success on marathon day.

    Nell- you're running v well. Look forward to hearing about your Marathon!

    today I did almost 6 miles in 55 minutes, easy pace but tough run, hilly. Enjoyed it though. I decided to jump into week 5 of a RW 10 week HM plan before my half in November. 

    I got new shoes (saucony kinvaras) and wore them out for the first time. I've not worn anything but NB for a while but I like the feel of these so far. Plus they are bright yellow- can't be a bad thing.

  • HI Ali, I use the Kinvara 3's. Love them and on my third pair. I can still get the 3's for 47.50 so refuse to move to the 4's just yet  image

  • Where do you get them just incase I fancy snapping up some of the 3s?  Presuming wherever you get them has ladies...

    I had a 15% off Run4it voucher (you know the ones they give out at loads of races) from Loch Ness so I decided to treat myself at the shop in Aberdeen.

  • Morning all.

    Carl – well done on the parkrun and the half marathon result. I still think you have plenty of miles in the bank from this year to get you around Dublin in a decent time. Have you been keeping up the LT runs too ?

    Ali – good to hear you are recovering nicely from LN. What is your current PB for HM and what time are you aiming for in November ?

    Ricky – 6 x 20+ runs in your training for Dublin is good going but time to start taking it easy and getting yourself to the start line in perfect condition. The pace sessions at the club seemed to have helped to so I too am expecting a new PB at Dublin; I’m going for 3:28 for you to come in ahead of the big Kenyan !

    Nell – I think a 12 week plan should suffice for an experienced runner like yourself. As you say, a reduced mileage on this plan might do you more good and be at the starting line feeling fairly fresh. Which marathon are you running and is it a PB opportunity ?

  • Another decent week for me last week with a total of 28 miles that included 2 x 8 milers too. The knee seems to be baring up at the moment too despite me slipping with my stretches/exercises somewhat. I've been taking the mutt out for some long walks too which is helping strengthen the knee as they have been quite hilly. My new bike has been ordered and I should take delivery of it later this week. I then need to come up with a plan that wont upset Mrs C but ensures I can get plenty of running and cycling in. The plan this week is to get up to 30 miles and I've got a couple of days off so will be venturing into the peaks for a couple of hilly runs and rides. 

  • Hi Ali, you can get them on Sportsshoes and startfitness websites. I think the 15% voucher for Run4it should just about take you to the normal retail price!

    Hi Carter, You're weekly mileage is not far behind me at the moment! I think I might have preferred a 16 week plan, I will reserve judgement until after the marathon. The marathon is The Castles Marathon (Alnwick to Bamburgh) and it is the first year of it. I do not think it will be a PB marathon....It will be a busy weekend, on the Saturday my son has a judo competition in Larkhall my wife is off to that, and I will be taking my daughter and pals up to Grangemouth for a cross country relay, we then meet up back at Edinburgh later and then down to Alnmouth for the night...then next morning accross to Alnwick for the marathon!


  • Carter 28 miles is v respectable! Good job.

    current HM PB is 1:48 and I'd live to see 1:47:xx on my watch come Fraserburgh in November!

  • Sorry... 'Love' to see not ' live'

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - your weekly mileage is creeping up nicely. Looks like you are mastering the art of running with a nagging weakness. Must be great to be running that weekly mileage and have no pressure to stick to a schedule.

    You are right. The miles are there overall. Have just not hit the level I wanted to be at for Dublin. When I think back to my HM in the spring, I was training hard and enjoying it even though it was freezing cold and windy. On HM day it was one of the coldest days I have ever run and it was a hilly course on a bleak day. I felt really strong and sailed it.

    Sunday was a recent time on an easier course but a crowded course. Circa 16000 runners versus a few hundred. But it was not easier and intuitively it should have been.

    So I agree I should be to get round OK. As long as I keep it steady then sub 3:45 is achievable. This is a decent time but I feel that I am capable of faster just not this time.

    Only had time for 6 miles in the gym at 6am today. In Toronto. First mile warm up, next 4 miles at 7:03 main/mile pace on an  incline setting. 

    I will probably do the same tomorrow and am back home Thursfdsy morning so will try and get a MLR in Thursday night.

    Planning on doing the park run again on Saturday and then my last 20 miler on Sunday.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Just gone 7am here in Toronto and running is done for the day. Really strange. When back home I cannot get up early and go out running but when herre I can.

    Woke at 4.30 and could not get back to sleep. Got up and spent about an hour clearing out emails from London.

    Headed to the gym. It was packed. It is not hugh  and HSS only 4 treddies.

    1 mile warm up and 1 mile cool down with 6 miles at 7:30 main/mile pace.

    Good workout. Only problem is that calf is a little tighterr adterr the session than I would like. 

    Trust everyone is having a great day.

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