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Legs getting better today, but I'm glad I'm off work.
Just entered London 2018 with the ballot open until the end of the week, so get you're entries in! Maybe it will be third time lucky in the ballot for me?
Aware of the issues with Iron and B12 and eating appropriately, will supplement and monitor if needed, a lot of meat eaters also have iron deficiency so isn't the total solution. Same with protein have done appropriate research and been into nutrition and diet for probably 5 years+ now and there are a number of accomplished plant based runners to get advice from so hoping it all goes to plan and dont have any issues. Has probably took me two years of thinking and reading about it to finally go ahead so hasn't been heat of moment decision.
Also nice race report really good you were able to pick up the pace towards the end is impressive were able to and good on the PB.
Had couple good runs over the weekend recovery going well for me and also did a pacing run with my partner as a practice for the Sunderland Half next week.
May Goals
------------
Complete recovery and be ready to start October training cycle first week June
Get my partner round the Sunderland half in under 3 hours
160+ miles
Lose 4 pounds
Use roller few times a week
Increased core work.
Have entered the London Ballot as well.
No London ballot for me, I've done London 4 times and it's one of my least favourite marathons.
daveymck - you've obviously done your nutritional research before changing your diet. Unfortunately many don't and they often end up with deficiencies later on.
Good luck with your OH's half marathon next weekend.
Thank you, and enjoy the Half, it'll be nice to run a race much slower than you are used to to soak it all up.
Don't let that stop you doing London, you could stay the night and travel home the next day. But check with your running club or others in your town, they may organise a trip for runners to do VLM which will have minimal tube/train connections.
You will in time recover more quickly the more running and races you do and driving after a race will not be a problem. I have a 3 hour drive home this coming weekend after my marathon in Wales, that is quite usual for me.
Shades - well done at Plym! That sounded tough!!
I have finally penned my blog for the cub.
Dan's Journey from Abingdon to London (via the Vale of York) - Part 4.
During the week before I ran last October’s Abingdon marathon, I was lucky enough to get one of the HPH club places at the London marathon in April 2017. I promised to blog about the training and the build up … Part 1 came just before Abbey Dash, my last race of 2016; Part 2 came just after parkrun on 7th Jan 2017; Part 3 just before Bradford 10K; and this is Part 4 - the final part! Pull up a seat – it’s a long one. ;-)
With 5 weeks to go until race day, I dodged the chance for another long run and instead had a crack at the Bradford 10K. Conditions were tougher than at Dewsbury and the legs were more fatigued, so I was happy enough with 41:48. I was even happier 6 days later at Woodhouse Moor parkrun when I bagged a rare sub-20 (19:56). Two days later came my 4th and final treadmill fuelling test at Leeds Beckett - another 17 miles of misery but I just kept telling myself it was helping science and that it was all good training! The next session of significance was the following Sunday (3 weeks to race day!) where I did 23 miles on the canal towpath at 8:55/m – comfortably below MP but close to the time I’d have to spend on my feet on race day. Everything in-between these various sessions/races consisted of either run or bike commuting (10-11 miles per day). This week ended up with 43 miles of running and 32 miles of bike ... I took the Saturday off and then went off to the Vale of York 10 mile to see if I could bank some of this fitness before taper began. As with all my races, I carb-loaded the evening before, despite training and living on a low carb diet. Conditions were perfect and I came in a minute faster than last year in 68:35. All good with 2 weeks to go! Time to taper.
Taper is a place where things can go wrong and in the past I have become a bit sluggish with the relative inactivity. Hence the plan was to have some hard sessions, while backing off the "filler" mileage. For this race, the situation was perfect as I was off work for Easter so could drop the run/bike commuting. I had a couple of days off after Vale of York, and then did a Lactate Threshold Test on the treddie at Leeds Beckett (my "reward" for being a guinea pig for those four long treadmill fuelling studies). Aside from being a tough session in itself, I also came away with some useful info telling me my LT pace was at 12 km/h (8:02 min/mi) ... very close to my planned MP (8 min/mi). I also got some pleasing blood lipid results back - seems the low carb nutrition had also pushed all my numbers in the right direction (TG & Ldl down, Hdl up). The only other session that week was parkrun - I planned to go all out for sub-20 again, but Woodhouse Moor was cancelled and so I did the hilly Temple Newsam in 20:50. With 1 week to go, I ran 10 miles at MP on Sunday, and then 3.6 miles easy on Tuesday, bike commuting on Wednesday, and finally 3.6 miles with 4 x 400m intervals on Thursday (immediately followed by carb-loading). And that was it. So much time, thought and sweat invested ... I just needed to execute. But I'd been here in 2014 when I got a ballot place ... that ended in 3:37:35 ... just under 2:40 at 20 but with a disastrous final 10K. I'd trained so hard for that race and it had ended in misery.
London! We travelled down on Friday evening and stayed in west London with my brother's family. On Saturday I had to go all the way across the city to ExCel to get my number and visit the Expo - it was crazily busy! In 2014 things had been simpler - it was school holidays and we went down early and did all the fun stuff on the Friday. So this time I made an effort not to get exhausted by traipsing around all the Expo stalls – instead I let the family look around while I took a seat, ate food, and listened to the "advice" from various speakers on the central stage. Then it was back west, lots of carbs and kit checking, and an early-ish night.
The Plan. The maths for sub-3:30- is easy ... 8 min/mile. After Abingdon's 3:31:02 PB, when I'd consciously attempted to improve my fat burning metabolism (see Part 1), I managed the final 4.2 miles more than 4 min quicker than at London ’14... but still at 8:43/mi. This is where I hoped to make the difference this time. I believed that there was scope to squeeze more from the metabolic approach but, as I read into the scientific literature, I realised that you basically become fat-adapted within 3-4 weeks of carb-restricted training and it was becoming clear to me that it was very likely I'd already got there last year. So the low carb training was now more about keeping things topped up, and keeping the weight down, rather than making more gains. However, I did believe that I was in better shape than at Abingdon and that I could beat that PB time and get under 3:30.
I'd been taking on a lot of carbs since the 4x400m on Thursday ... the main aim of tweaking my metabolism to become a fat-burner was not to avoid using carbs but to enable me to conserve my carb stores over the marathon ... carbs produce more ATP per oxygen molecule and so are more useful than fat when working hard and oxygen is limited ... but this time I hoped I would still have some left to utilise in the final 10K. So the plan was simple ... set off at 8 min/mi ... first gel (SIS) at 20 min ... remaining 5 gels every 20 min ... no more fuelling after 2 hours (to avoid gut issues) and rely on my conserved stores ... drink only water ... and run at 8 min/mi for 26.2 miles. Easy. Ha!
Race Day! I was up early as I needed to leave the house at 06:30. Breakfast was 4 slices of toast and honey. On the train to Waterloo, I ate a couple of energy bars I'd picked up at ExCel. I also had a couple of small bananas (which I saved until I was at Blue Start).
I felt very lucky very privileged as I approached Blue Start. I had thought 2014 was my only chance - I'm not good enough for GFA but after many attempts I'd finally got a ballot place for '14 and I'd trained really hard. But it ended badly. To get a 2nd chance via the Hyde Park Harriers club ballot 3 years later was very special - I was here again and I had a chance to put things right. Since then I'd done Nottingham '14, Dublin '14, and then Abingdon in '16. I’d learned a lot but I hadn’t yet cracked the code.
Being at Blue Start again was useful - it was familiar ... there was a lot of time to kill but this time I knew what to expect and I'd come with a plan. I took it all in - I appreciated it all - and I felt very privileged. BUT I did not get excited. I had a plan. I was here to execute it. No messing up this time.
On arrival ... obligatory photos ... then the mega-efficient toilet queue ... after that I found my baggage truck and made my base nearby. I ate my bananas, drank my water, had a snooze, and made use of the Vaseline. I waited until 9:25 before giving over my bag. It was still cold, so I kept my gloves, popped on a bin bag and headed for the pens. It was still early and I was getting cold, so I did a bit of light jogging before entering Pen 4. First thing I noticed was the 3:30 pacer was in Pen 3 with a hoard in between ... not much chance of sticking near him then! The hot air balloons were taking off and the helicopters whizzing around. I tried to take it all it. Such a special event! Great to be here ... but my mistake last time was going too fast in the first 5 miles... so focus focus focus!! After a gradual walk towards the start line with plenty of chit chat and banter, we were finally off.
The Race! I crossed the line with the clock on about 1:50ish and made a mental note in case anything went wrong with my watch. I was definitely further back than in '14 and it seemed to be very congested ... no problem, I thought, as I needed to go slow. Miles 1 and 2 came in at 8:31 and 8:13. After that things started to clear as we hit the downhill section ... 7:22, 7:49 and 7:45 for 3, 4 & 5 ... a bit fast but not concerned given the terrain and the fact I was 2 minutes slower than my over-ambitious 2014 start. Nevertheless, time to get focussed and control the pace ... 8:01, 7:55, 7:55, 8:05, 8:05 ... brought me up to 10 miles. I was about 30s in front of target but was actually feeling pretty rubbish ... my legs felt jaded and my feet were hurting (especially my right sole – too much Vaseline!). My heart rate had also been knocking on the door of 140 bpm ever since mile 4 ... in training, MP was a stable 132 bpm over 10 miles. Worrying. Very worrying. But I kept running to the plan. 7:55, 8:01, 7:53. Tower Bridge ... the Red Start 3:30 pacer came past with his disciples in tow ... half way in 1:44:27 (a minute slower than '14) ... then 8:05, 8:05 and 7:55 to get me to 16 miles. We had now passed Canary Wharf for the first time and were on the Isle of Dogs ... it was hot and it was hard work. 8:16 and 8:15 – the 3:30 pacer started to gradually pull away and think I was mentally ready for the worst. I got to 30K in 2:29:30ish ... OK, but I'd been here before ... and the last time the wheels came off. I looked out for my family and thankfully spotted them - stopped for a quick hug and then went on. Felt better now but was thinking that it must be time for the wheels to come off ... but until they did, I kept on running. 8:06 and at 20 miles in just over 2:40 – a tad slower than ’14 and 90s slower than Abo ’16. Just about on target but it was now getting hard. And it soon became absolutely grim. But this time the wheels didn't fall off at 20... 8:06, 8:04, 7:59 ... now at mile 23! A minute down on my Abo ’16 split. The legs said stop but I was here now and I maybe I wasn't coming back. So I just kept running. And I was passing so many people. They were grinding to a halt but I wasn't. But this was just as hard as any other marathon I'd been in. Maybe worse. I lost track of where I was, missing the mile markers as I just focussed on moving forward. I was in a dark place that only someone who has run a marathon knows about. Finally I spotted Big Ben ... part of me still believed that sub-30:30 was possible, so I kept on pushing. In the end, those last 3.2 miles came in at 8:04 mi/mi, and in the last 7.2K I gained 641 places... only 26 people passed me, while I passed 667. I'd done 7 marathons and it had never happened before. But I can't say I enjoyed it – it was grim work.
In the end I crossed the line in 3:30:14 ... 48 s off my PB but still 15 seconds away from a perfect day... but I had no regrets. The splits were 1:44:27 first half and 1:45:47 for the second – given all the downhill is in the first half, that’s probably as close to an even split as I could have hoped for. Maybe I could have gained those extra 15 seconds at the start ... or on the Isle of Dogs ... perhaps ... but I know for sure that I could not have run that last 7K any faster than I did. The closing 4.2 miles were 2:48 faster than Abo ’14 and a whopping 5:43 faster than London ’14. Result.
So at last I feel like I am a marathon runner. London is a very special race – impeccable organisation and unbelievable support. Thank you Hyde Park Harriers for making it possible.
I’m ready to crack 3:30 at Chester in October.
Except that I now have to become a temporary triathlete ... Leeds ITU Olympic distance next in June!
That is a great read and very much worth the wait!
Sort out the swimming and you could be a decent triathlete
Very impressive even splits by the way.
I'm off piste this week. Did a 5 miler yesterday morning, up and down a big hill and managed to keep to sub-70%. 17:30 pace on the way up and about 8:10 on the way down (for 1.9m)... Tonight I ran a club race. A strong finish to hold on to my treasured 144th place (why do we do that... what difference does it make?!) 5.9m at 7:18 - a bit disappointing. There was one fairly significant hill that you've to run twice but I thought I might have been closer to 7 mins. At least I kept a pretty steady pace. And then on Sunday, I'll be doing the Bristol 10K... apparently pretty flat... not sure what to target.
I think Shades also ran that Marathon as well!
I will leave one of the more experienced Hadders to answer the other post.
I can't remember if you said you'd done Chester before? I've done it once and it's a very good marathon and ideal to target for a PB.
NorthEnder - I too did Dublin in 2014, I don't remember it being a hot day at all. In fact I just checked my training diary and I didn't have a great run due to a sore foot but I wrote what a great race and weekend it was!
I can't answer your question, I'll leave that for someone else. But surely first we build a strong aerobic base and then we are ready for the sessions that will push our LT higher and thus work to improve our VO2capacity.
Good luck for your 10k, I think that's a fast course at Bristol.
Anyway, I enjoyed the lengthy and detailed posts about your various marathons. Having never (yet) run one, I can only but try to imagine what you went through.
Shades, you went through a real mental test there, slogging away through the pain. Must've been miserable! But you pushed through it and didn't throw in the towel. Kudos!
Martyn, upping the pace beyond 20 miles is, from what I read, rare. Probably because it's so difficult on already dead legs! So that's a tremendous accomplishment! Despite the so-near-yet-so-far from your goal finish time. I'm sure that there's a lot more in you than you think! Keep on training and you'll do wayyy better next time!
Dr Dan, super effort, with remarkably even splits! A human metronome! It is so gratifying to be passing so many people in the latter stages of a race. And you too finished Oh-so-close to your goal time. Roll on Chester!
I also turned off my alerts beeping to tell me each miles pace to save energy.
All I was fussed about was not stopping and didn't even run with a pace band.
i must admit that I was disappointed to see 4:4X:XX on the finish clock for my wave, which I thankfully started a lot later than.
I think I'll have a bash at your question. I'm not that much of an 'experienced Hadder,' (since November 2016) but I've read a lot. Feel free to disregard what I say - I am by no means an expert.
First, I believe that the window of adaptation potential of between 50-70% vV02max equals ~60-85 HRmax.
Second, what is not stated there, is the degree of adaptations at each intensity level. While it is true that maximum benefit will be realised at 70% V02max, in reality, you do gain 95% of the benefits at 60% V02max, or 70% HRmax.
Therefore, all the running we do at more than 60% HRmax is valuable (even if you feel that it's so slow, 'how beneficial can this be!?') And the bang for your buck, (or pound, for that matter), increases all the way up to 70% v02 max. The more, the merrier, as they say.
The problem is, 70% v02max for most people is a strenuous effort and there's no way for most people to run high mileage at high intensities. That's why Hadd recommends the whole range. You are given (up to) two subLTs per week, which is where rapid improvements are made - but you need a 'drop-dead easy' recovery session the following day. The intermediate days can be as you feel - 70-75% HRmax.
Another point. For most, including myself, whilst still building up the mileage and including one or two weekly subLT runs, it will be highly stressful to run all other runs at 70-75%. You will probably find, as I do, that higher mileage with one and especially two subLT runs, is only possible at lower HRs. As your body adapts and grows stronger, you will likely find it easier to up the pace progressively and slightly. Once you are aerobically well trained, you'll be fit enough to run all the easy runs at 70-75%.
Lydiard is quoted as saying: You can never run too slow for aerobic development, but you can run too fast.
Looking back, my HR was pretty similar to Abingdon ... it's just that it was lower in training.
Because I recently did a lactate threshold test (a real one on a treddie, giving blood etc), I know my LT pace is about 8 min/mi. That correlates with 73% maxHR. Even if that's a bit out, I know for sure that my "sub-LT" runs (hadd's ILTHR) over the past years have all been done way to fast (80-82% maxHR). This may have slowed down my progress in the past as I was probably more at tempo pace.
Monday - recovery.
AM, Quick morning jog, 15 min, 1.6 mi, 129
PM, 58 mins, 6.3 mi, 127. Recovery.
Tuesday, subLT.
WU, with strides - 21mins, 2.5 mi
SubLT, 4+5 miles @ 159. 4 min jog break. Faded at end. 1:09, 9.5 mi.
WD - 10 mins, 1.6 mi
Overall total - 1:40, 13.6 miles
Wednesday - recovery
59 mins, 6.3 mi, 119
Thursday
72 mins, 8.5 mi, 125
Friday - work day, but not enough time!
WU, strides, 2x1k @164, WD. Total - 52mins, 6.6mi.
Saturday - recovery
45 mins, 5mi, 128
Sunday - long SLOW run
2:01, 13.1 mi, 116!
Total, 60 miles
8 hours, 45 minutes
Note that my 70% is 134 - didn't hit it once this week! So this was a relatively low intensity week. Better to keep easy, easy, so I can make hard, hard. However, it is my highest mileage week so far and the first with two work days. I'm surprised that I'm not dog-tired from the week at all. In fact, on Monday bank holiday there was the 2-mile race. More about that next week...
Normally, I do try to run Thursday and long runs at 70%, but I had the 2 mile club race on Monday I was saving my legs for. I don't know what happened on Thursday - I thought it was a decent pace and it was, but for some reason the HR was low!
Also, a first for this (rather, last) week, was the morning jog on Monday. Because I was planning the subLT on Tuesday, that leaves just one day for recovery between the previous Sunday's long run and Tuesday. It turns out that it significantly aided in the recovery and you'll notice a relatively high HR for a recovery day. I did the same this week. Worked wonders!
Interesting though, that the Sunday 13 mile, 2 hour 01, at an extremely low 116bpm run was identical to a run in December when I ran it at 134bpm! So, a very dramatic show of improvement in just 4 month of Hadding!
Sol2 - nice improvement
Nice training /pacing gig Davey.
Everybody has to start somewhere!
I've still not run, although the plan was to wait until between 7 and 10 days after the race.
I have been keeping busy though and as a Marathon finishing novice, have been making it as a go along.
So Day 1 I walked 2 miles as Shades suggested, but since then, I have maybe not been resting up enough as I should?
Day 2 - 4 miles
Day 3 and 4 - 3 miles am, 3 miles pm
Day 5 - 5 miles am, 3 miles pm
day 6 - 3 miles am, 3 miles pm
So since running 26.2 miles on Monday, I have now walked 26 miles since!
Have I done too much walking? Or is this a good way of recovering?
I've not really had Doms which is bonus from all of this walking
Sol2.. interesting to see that training and reinforces my need to now start getting the faster elements built into my training - I've been playing at this for 3 weeks now.
Today, I raced though - and got a nice time of 42:55 in the Bristol 10K. My fastest time since the 1980s although it's probably only on a par with my performance in an 8 mile race about 15 weeks ago - but I see this as a sign that I've come through a difficult patch. So, this race makes for a good baseline for any Hadd training. I'm tempted to have a crack at a 5k next week though!
NorthEnder - that's a great result at your 10k, do you think that was from your marathon training?
daveymck - congrats to your OH and to you for supporting her on the way round.
Sol - that was a great week's training.
Shades... My weekly mileages post-Manchester have been 5, 8, 30, 15 and 37 including yesterday, so yes, it's got to be down to the marathon training. I did 55:41 on a perfectly flat 8 mile race at the end of Jan just before I hit a 5-6 week patch that I can only put down to overtraining syndrome. Then 20:57 in a 5K 2-weeks before race-day (could have shaved a few seconds off that 5K if I'd pushed the last 400m but chose not to). So all those times are reasonably aligned. Maybe I could do something to that 5K time next week if I went for it.
I am off work on Tuesday, so will put my feet up and then start running again on Wednesday which is day 10 after the Marathon.
I am trying to swap my next two Saturday shifts at work for later starts so that I can have a crack at my 5k PB at a Parkrun before my Marathon training disappears.
Great 10k effort Northender, and hopefully just the start of Hadd progress for you.
Martyn - apart from your 5k parkrun PB attempt, what is going to be your next goal or are you just going to enjoy a spell of training without the pressure of a race?
Great Welsh Marathon for me yesterday, good conditions warmed up nicely to 18 degrees by the time I finished but the humidity had dropped a little and a breeze kept it cool.
Was worried that I might have a repeat of the sore calves that I suffered in last week's race. When I arrived at the Travelodge on Saturday I carefully cut all the pieces of Kinesio tape and then taped both calves up firmly before the race. During the race not even the mildest twinge in either calf so definitely was over enthusiastic Pilates exercise that caused that last week.
I ran just as I felt, got to halfway in 2:17 and after halfway was starting to pick off other runners, small field in the marathon, only 123 finishers, due to the late announcement of the event I think. At 11 miles my groin started to niggle and didn't ease off at all, I think because I was running at effort. At 18 miles I walked through a drink station and found my groin stopped hurting when I walked so did little walk breaks during the last 8 miles just to ease it a bit but I was still keeping an eye on the time.
Finished in 4:44:12 so only lost 10 minutes in the 2nd half compared to the first half due to the walk breaks. Finish time a course best by 3 minutes and actually my fastest marathon for 6.5 years, however in 2011 and 2014 I did finish only a minute and a bit slower in other marathons. This result gives me a WAVA of 65% which is the highest I've ever achieved. Average HR for the race was 86%, which is fairly usual for me. But all in all very pleased, groin feels fine now. Treated myself to a giant hot dog at the finish, tasted so good. Lovely drive home, no hold ups.
Very pleased to see the winner was Matt Rees the Swansea Harrier that helped the runner in the finish straight at London, I thought I recognised him, he was smiling all the time he was running. The course is 2 figure of eight laps and you get a chance to see the other runners, makes for a really good atmosphere.
Glad the winner got his reward for helping the guy at London.
I would imagine I will train as two Hadd days a week, followed by speed work on a Tuesday, a 10k @10 min pace and a Sunday 6-10 mile in the woods with the club depending if my work gets in the way.
I am am hoping to get over to Ireland for a 10k at the end of July but it depends on work again.