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HADD Training Method
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Today ran 5 miles, 1 easy 3 at 80% 1 easy 42 mins in total.
56 mile race this weekend over the Brecon Beacons ( Gulp ) starting at 0500hrs so when you run your PR think of me, I will have run for 4 hours by then ( another Gulp )
Dr Dan your team mate and I would be good training partners as I ran the Severn bridge half marathon in that time last week.
Saw you as you passed my house Dr Dan. Thought your team mate was lagging just a tad
Still packed a decent mileage in last month Dr Dan
'mock shite' (I much prefer Roy) enjoy your race over the Brecon Beacons - I won't be out of bed by the time your halfway!
Well, that's august gone and hopefully the last of my injuries for a while. Ended up on 119 miles in 20h 40m 35s and 72.34% AHR. 10 miles further than last month in an extra 36 minutes. That last 10 miles was fast lol.
It's now 4 weeks before Loch Ness and my longest run is still only 16 miles
I may try two 20 milers then just leave a 2 week taper then it's back to proper HADDing throughout the winter and (this time) will build up to some subLT work.
Like the sound of that winter place Ecce! The subLT work is the key to Hadd.
Shoes - Team mate is a V60 with a great WAVA score but was struggling from West End Rise onwards ... he endured 5 miles of grief and was totally spent at the end - very gritty performance as he left nothing on the route. I was only 7-8 s/mi faster than him at the parkrun the week before, so thought we'd be a reasonable match.
Roy, I hope your 56 miler went well. Hard to imagine running that far!
DD, nice running. I bet that was fun to do a relay as opposed to the solo effort. Monthly total is good, especially w/the vacation thrown in to boot. Will you keep up the bike miles or shift more to running now that the race is getting closer?
Andi, no more injuries for you! Hope you have a good final run up to your race. And agree w/DD, the subLTs are what bakes the cake.
Last week was strange. It was a cutback week, but developed some pain/tightness in my gluteus medius (or at least I think that is the muscle in question). Got progressively worse through the week. So ended up w/36 miles and took Sat/Sun off but really worked the painful area with a trigger point ball, which finally seemed to release the muscle.
Monday I ran the 25K race. Was very nervous as it really did feature some serious hills. And to boot, it was 75 w/96% humidity and sun at the 8 am start (and only got worse from there!). What made that extra special was we had an unusually cool August. Anyway, off we went with the 1st 8 miles essentially a long upward climb. Then it was rolling stuff w/less severe hills until mile 13, then big climbs again, with a wicked, twisty hill at the finish. HR was 158 (80%) miles 1&2, 162 (82%) mile 3, 167 to 170 (84-85%) miles 4-12, mile 13 172 (86%), mile 14 174 (87%), mile 15 175 (88%), and last 0.6 miles 181 (91%). I didn't really focus on pace as I was worried about medical problems due to the heat and my last marathon experience. So just tried keeping reasonable effort based on HR. My final pace was 7:32 m/m (my garmin gave me 7:26 so shows my tangential running was poor!). I just let my watch auto lap and it showed my pace to sit between 7:20 and 7:35 pretty consistently over the miles, with the last 1/2 mile at 6:40. Ended up 34th in a tough field of seasoned runners (not many recreational folks signed up for this one). It was the most disgusting finish ever...all of us were absolutely drenched at the finish. Only you fellow runners can imagine what I'm describing
So pace was slower than I was hoping for but was overall pretty happy with the race. I was surprised to find myself feeling in control for the whole race. Never got overly anxious. Just felt confident and steady. Was especially happy to feel normal (and not desperate!) on the hills. Mile 13 I started to get a little of the "end of marathon" feeling but was able to push through it well. Caught a number of people in last 5 miles, and then someone tried passing me on the last crazy hill and I dropped the hammer (so to speak) and really cruised home. Got to try my gels plus electrolyte tabs and no issues there either.
Lingering concern over my new Hokas. Are they the reason for my hip soreness last week? Would that have happened anyway? Not sure. I did race in them though and things are fine today so will continue to use them cautiously. And I found flaw in them...they don't drain very well. They were absolutely soaked by the end of this race and sweat was squishing up out of them with each step. Sorry if that was TMI...
Well done VT - sounds like a tough course and some very tough conditions! That will bank some positive adaptations down the line.
RE: biking ... well, usually I drop the bike and drive to work because I fear that even a minor crash could scupper the marathon. And I must admit that running in August, while off work, without the bike miles in my legs was more enjoyable. But while the good weather lasts and the evenings are light, I think I'll continue ... wet/cold/dark is always a good incentive to drive.
11.6 on the bike today and 12 easy miles running ... 9/m for 72-73% maxHR.
I need to figure out a way to like biking (or some other form of cross training). But when it comes down to it I just prefer to run by a big margin. DD, that is a solid day's effort.
I put in 7.8 miles today at easy effort. DOMS in quads/glutes pretty bad yesterday, but much better today, especially after the run. All parts seem in order!
gr8 run VT m8y (do I sound young?) no wonder you have DOMS after that run! (I've been clear of them since I started taking a High5 Isotonic tab with added caffeine after each run).
good going with the running and cycling Dr Dan
It's hard enough to run on Mull roads and think cycling would be even worse so you can count me out on the cycling front.
So, today I passed 2014k in 2014 so celebrating with a dram or two
Next on my to do list for 2014 is to run 5k in 30 mins @70%AHR and 10k in 60 mins @70%AHR. Current pb's are 27:31 & 56:56 so a few treadmill runs (or long declines) should see that happen soon.
Loch Ness 28th of this month then proper HADDing and will spend time 'icing the cake' whilst squeezing the last drop from the tube of toothpaste.
Oh, have found a decent 1/2 mile long hill that's just been built for log lorries and whilst hill repeats are not really in the HADD locker I was planning on running up @80-83% and down at 70% then perhaps increase the HR downhill over time, remove the standing rests and create an up/down subLT session - thoughts?
Sounds over-complicated Ecce ... keep the easy runs at below 70% and do the subLTs at 80-83%. Simples.
I actually did a subLT sesion today
- 10.7 with 8.4 at subLT ... 7:33/m average pace at 144 bpm - average HR, which is just over 82 % maxHR. Held the pace steady but the HR did drift upwards in the last 2 miles.
lol Dr.Dan, I understand but was thinking hill reps (with a difference) would help me in the long run (pun intended).
Great run even though the HR drifted a little towards the end
Came down with the CBA's yesterday so didn't run and weirdly was aching more today than yesterday! Ended up on the TM running at 10:55mm for an hour with an AHR of 65% - feel more rested now
Well done at the 25 k race, VT. Sounds like really tough conditions. If you think those shoes may be causing trouble, leave them. Not worth getting a serious injury.
Nice mileage so far Andi.
Roy: enjoy the ultra.
Not much to report here. Achilles still sucks and I'm getting fat. At least I managed 5 miles today. Off road. With a few walk and stretch breaks but largely pain free. Hey ho. Autumn races have all been shelved. Here's to spring and winter training. Bring on the snow and double-digit minus temps (NOT).
My resting heart rate now is between 35 and 38
we still won't allow you to use WHR, shoes
Txs chick
Am sure the Autumn/Winter training will get you back up to speed again.
Shoes, nice low RHR - need to do mine again.
3 weeks till Loch Ness and did my first 20 miler yesterday!I'll see how I feel midweek but might slip another 20 miler in then take a 2 week taper - thoughts?
60.08 miles for the week in 10:30:51 (10:30mm's) with a 72.87% AHR.
Very low rHR there shoes ... do you sometimes feel faint?
Chick - sorry to hear that achlles is still causing grief.
Good mileage Ecce... if it was me, I'd do another 20 mi.
3rd 20 mi of the campaign for me today ... as with the previous two, I popped in 6 mi of MP at the end (7:55/m for 78% maxHR). Felt surprisingly comfortable.
I've had an ECG regarding my RHR. All OK because I don't suffer from dizziness, light-headedness, shortness of breath etc.
First thing in the morning and perhaps most of the time my RHR is usually around the 42 mark but I find it goes down further later in the day if I'm relaxing watching TV etc.
I had my best marathon training run on Saturday -18 miles and decided to ditch the heart rate for the last 5 miles and power-on. Felt strong throughout
Chickadee - damn you
Sometimes you just gotta let rip.
Awesome long running there, boys.
Now that I have cancelled all race plans I sort of enjoy the bit that I can do. Hope the achilles comes round sooner rather than later. 2014 is simply a write-off
Off on hols then back into Hadd for 6 weeks, ready for Snowdon marathon.
One hell of a w/e a 56 mile race has left me slightly tired
Roy, give it up! How did it go? We need details!!
Chick, such a bummer that you are injured, but now that you've entered into the acceptance phase, you can see the upside again. Enjoy the running you get as you heal up. Nice fall weather to boot. You'll be back soon enough!
SSLHP, wow, very low HR. I'm impressed. I've never done the proper test when in bed first thing in the morning. Think that's the only way I'll see sub40 readings. But I have noticed readings of low 50s when walking to end of my drive way to start a run. After reading "Once a Runner", keep waiting for my wife to tell my the whole bed is shaking from my heart beats...
DD, some great efforts from you this week. Glad to hear you are feeling strong in these efforts. And yes, HR always rises in the last 2 miles
Andi, go for the 20! And what DD says in terms of training. Sounds like you get plenty of hills now matter where you run (non tready) already.
So been a long week here. Had a good case of DOMS in quads from the race that took most of the week to shake out. But got some striders done Sat in a 7M run then came back with 21M yesterday. LR kept easy the whole way as still on tired legs from race. Felt great most of the way then wanted to do something other than run in the last 2 miles. Miles in the bank though. Debating whether to launch into a subLT tomorrow (today will be no running). I had a cut back week 2 wks ago...race this past Monday, then no fast efforts up to now (but did get 54 miles last week including race). Not sure what the recovery rules are after a 15 miler like that. Anyone? My week, if I proceed normally, would be SubLT efforts Tues/Friday, LR Sun, and easy stuff to round out.
Oh yeah, and my oldest daughter got lice last week
. Not just an expert on viruses anymore. Holy sh*t these bugs can take over your life. 3 treatments, 3 full house cleanings, and a whole bunch of picking stuff out of hair later, I think we are clear again.
VT - you have my sympathy! 3 of my 4 kids are girls, all who inherited their mother's thick long hair. When one comes home from school with head lice, then all hell breaks loose
. The frustrating thing is that you can sort it all out ... but if other parents of their class-mates don't, then they get re-infected again
.
The "subLT efforts Tues/Friday, LR Sun, and easy stuff to round out" is a really good plan during base phase if you can keep the LR at easy pace. However, during marathon race prep you'd probably be sticking in MP miles at the end of long runs, so for me this replaces the Tues session as the HR at MP is basically ILTHR ... and I can't manage 3 sessions per week! I've seen some of the Hadd experts on fetcheveryone doing this.
DD, I've been following the 2 subLT plus LR per week for most of this build up. But typically the LRs start easy and get faster (I've followed the P&D style). The last few miles usually get into the 75-77% range. So these are kind of like a progressive and/or fast-finish type LR. Last time I did do several true progressive runs (7M easy; 7M in the 74-75% range, then the last 7 in the 80-83% range). Only problem is after one of these on a Sunday am gassed for a subLT the following Tuesday. I guess the cycle should be 1 wk w/2 subLT plus a normal LR followed by 1 wk w/1 subLT midweek and a progressive LR, then a cut back week and repeat the 3 week cycle again.
Legs felt OK during my first mile today so opted to go for a subLT session. Was warm but not as humid for once. HR very steady today (80-82% range). Was a hilly course (normally I run a more flat or even slightly downhill course). Pace came out around 6:5X/m. Definitely felt a little tired in the last couple miles but HR didn't rise so will take it.
BTW, because I have shoe fever now, I got another pair of Hokas (the Huaka). Very similar to the Clifton (light at around 8-9 oz) but much firmer. Have worn them around just walking and really like the feel. Will try them on an easy run this week to compare. But unlike the Clifton, the color scheme on this shoe is awful!
Nice subLT VT ... I can only dream of a 6:xx/m subLT!
RE: the subLT versus LR?MP ... I think in base phase it's best to do a slow LR and two subLTs while nearer marathon time the LT/MP becomes a key session, so the Tues subLT can be dropped.
I only managed 3.3 miles yesterday as I was shattered from Monday's 20 miler. wi MP. I did manage to cyle to/from work ... although that was scuppered today when I realised I had two broken spokes as I wheeled the bike out of the gate... but hopefully that'll make today's run easier.
It did!
12 miles at 8:33/m and 72-73% maxHR. I had brand new Musha 5s on for the first time and wanted to calibrate my foot-pod (still use an ancient Forerunner 50), so varied the pace here and there. The miles section between 7.7 to 8.7 was at MP effort which came out as 7:47/m for 76-77% maxHR.
Dan, nice bounce back run. Great to get the gas tank topped off again, eh?
7.5M easy for me today. Tried the Huakas. They are an interesting shoe. Much, much firmer than the Cliftons, yet still have lots of cushion. They are more like my Nimbus shoes, only about 3 oz lighter. At times late in runs, the Clifton's can almost feel mushy, but don't think that would be an issue for the Huaka's.
On the LR slow vs progressive, I hear you. But I also always read warnings about only doing fast finish/progressives once every 3rd week or so. How often do you bundle them in? Can you sense the doubt creeping into my brain?
Oh well, all told, I think I'll be fine but could do a few progressive runs as I finish out here. I'm only 6 weeks out now
. Actually looking forward to taking a break form constant marathon prep as this will be my 3rd in 12 months, which equates to roughly 16 months of training in 3 cycles...yikes...
VT - I hear you on the 16 months of mara training!! Like you, this is my 3rd cycle in the trot - I am not doing one next year ... going to get me some tasty 5K-HM times instead!
I wouldn't worry RE: LR slow vs progressive - more than one way to skin a cat. I've done MP sections or finishes (5-10 miles) in 5 of the last 6 long runs... for me they are the key sessions as the race day gets nearer ... I can can sense what MP will be like later on in the race.
I have 6 weeks (and 4 days - those will be crucial
!) until my target marathon on 27th Oct (a Monday 
), although this time I'm going to sneak in an "extra" marathon 4 weeks earlier (28th Sept) ... which is just 17 days away now
. Plan is not to taper for the first one, although obviously I'll rest up for a few days beforehand.
By the end of October, I will have done 4 marathons in 12.5 months by Dublin, so will be ready for a change.
That is a lot of training, guys!
. Hope it works for you. I'm pretty cautious after all 3 attempts to stick a 24 miler in ended with chest infections. Those overly long runs obviously kill my immune system right off 
. Trying 4 or 5 this evening.
You are brave to run a marathon in the marathon build-up, Dr. D.
I'm cautiously optimistic that my achilles seem to heal. I did 3 continuous miles with no pain
Good news on the Achilles ... fingers crossed!
... which may well fail
. Still, as I work at a Uni there's a high chance that I'll be ill in October once the students return, so I thought it would be sensible not to put all my eggs in the Dublin basket. It will also be interesting to see how a marathon feels without a proper taper (I seem to lose fitness during the 3 weeks taper).
Yep, it's something of an experiment
5.4 mi today, with 1M at MPish effort (7:35/m for 77%) just to looosen the auld legs up as I was pretty stiff to start with.