Sub 10:00...

Okay, well I plan on finishing Outlaw next year in 9 hours something. I'm going to talk about it (and maybe field questions if I'm feeling nice) here. Anybody else like to go fast? image
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  • Me! imageimage

     

    I'm pretty confident I could do any of the legs in under 9 hours! Maybe not the swim.

     

  • Is this the half? image

  • I like to go fast but at shorter distances. image 

    I will mainly be listening to what others have to say but may chime in now and then. 

  • I hope this thread gains enough support to stay at the top of the page. I will lurk and ask questions but not sure I'll have much to offer those already experienced and going sub 10:00.

    I'm not ready to go sub 10 yet. My first session was geared towards Challenge Henley this year and I finished in 11:56 with only 9 moths swimming and biking behind me. I hope to be able to make significant improvements over the next few years.

  • Is there no way to make it sticky peeps?

  • Scuba - well done.image

    It will be interesting to see what this thread brings to the party, good luck to those working towards a sub 10:00

  • Well done Dan ...

    Buttercup, hopefully the interest will keep it at the top otherwise the point is proven

  • I don't know if this will stay on the first page but as long as people know where it is, it'll keep rocking up like the bike numpty thread.



    A more serious question is whether I'm being reasonable... A PB of 10:59 last year, I was definitely in loads better shape until the June this year (5:05 on a hot and hilly Mallorca course and outlaw half where I did the bike and run of a 4:50. From there various things (mainly arguing with a car) meant my training was almost totally wiped out until IMCH. On a very hot day, and with a few other glitches I managed 11:06.



    Personally I was gutted that I hadn't converted early season training (a new concept to me) into a PB - so I think I am due a big PB next year. image



    I'll be doing Outlaw Half, The Avenger and Outlaw as my main race. I'm also still a bit tempted by IM Mallorca or Wales though...
  • I fear my chances of a sub 10 disappeared with 10:03 at Roth - after improving my swim from 1:24 that day I've never had the same form on the bike, but I'm not ruling out another go, if my consultant lets me do IM again (he had an article in the latest Triathlete Europe, so he's not one of those docs who thinks anything more than a brisk walk is pushing yourself too far).

    TE, if you're looking for sub 10 then I suspect that Mallorca & Wales might be pushing it.  Both cracking races though, tempted myself.


  • Cheerful Dave wrote (see)

    I fear my chances of a sub 10 disappeared with 10:03 at Roth - after improving my swim from 1:24 that day I've never had the same form on the bike, but I'm not ruling out another go, if my consultant lets me do IM again (he had an article in the latest Triathlete Europe, so he's not one of those docs who thinks anything more than a brisk walk is pushing yourself too far).

    TE, if you're looking for sub 10 then I suspect that Mallorca & Wales might be pushing it.  Both cracking races though, tempted myself.

    Don't get me wrong, Outlaw is very much the push for sub 10. The late season branded race would be a (premature, admittedly) crack at getting a lucky rolldown. I know Outlaw is a lot flatter than IMCH, it won't be 43 degC, and it won't be non-wetsuit. I'll cross my fingers for avoiding traffic in the run up!image

  • Wales slots have never rolled down very far and the standard at the pointy end is high - lots of folks coming over for an early go at a slot for next year.  OTOH, with Mallorca as a second late-season European race, maybe the talent will be spread a bit thinner in 2014?

  • The popular threads seem to be the ones that are more sharing day to day experience than asking for or giving advice.    A daily training thread where people say what they've done and discussion can arise out of that might generate more traffic, if only because most train but not many aim for sub 10 so you'd have a bigger catchment.   Needn't be instead of this thread.

  • Dave, at the race opening rate we have, there will be just 1 slot left for the AG winner!

    If however the number of slots remains comparable, I think yours is quite a valid point. Interesting how fast the sub10 thread becomes also a Kona qualifier thread image

    Not that I mind though. Funkin did not help in taking Kona away from my mind with his amazing Blog.

  • I do have a question regarding times. How much of this sub10 would be course related?. Is the thread aiming at this timing for any normal IM distance? (obviously mountain marathon races would be out of the question)

    Edit:Wrong Spacing

  • Good to see this thread starting with a reference to Outlaw, and not just IM-branded events. There's more to life than Kona.

    I think the term "sub-10" is a loose one and hope this thread will be a meeting point for people aiming for the pointy end at some stage.

    So, I'd like to go (relatively) fast next year, but without the stress of a specific target, and only once I've recovered from this year (which is definitely not yet!). I will be looking forward to learning and sharing on this thread.

     

  • I think I'll need to start a sub 10.30 thread first as this is a step to far............

  • Man up Cona   image

  • Hokori wrote (see)

    Dave, at the race opening rate we have, there will be just 1 slot left for the AG winner!

    If however the number of slots remains comparable, I think yours is quite a valid point. Interesting how fast the sub10 thread becomes also a Kona qualifier thread image Not that I mind though. Funkin did not help in taking Kona away from my mind with his amazing Blog.

    Funkin's blog certainly didn't help, you are right! His qualification is an example of how sub 10 can put you in the frame however. Notwithstanding, there's still a huge appeal to finishing in a single digit time - regardless of qualification!

  • Its definitely doable for you.  I can't remember your exact times in outlaw before, but you should be aiming for something like

    1:10 swim
    T1 - 5 mins
    5:15 bike
    T1 - 5 mins3:30 run

    Oh - thats 9:05 but you get the idea image


    A 1:10 swim is not 'quick' so if you can get your swim towards 1:05 thats good. (My swim has fallen fron 1:20 to 1:06 over 3 years... just takes time, and a little bit of coaching along the way.) 
    I am finding regular swimming over the year to be beneficial - I've moved from 1-2 swims a week (and hating it) to 2-3 swims a week and enjoying it)

    You should be happy to do a few 3.8k TT swims over the last 10 weeks - ie you need enough swim volume that a solid TT effort does't phase you - its just another swim session.

    The idea is your swim training is not to make you quick, (although you may well get faster) but that you are swim fit, so you get out feeling fresh on race day

    Bike.
    5:15 is pretty quick.......volume, volume, volume.  Regular weekly riding.  I am being asked to do regular 6 hr rides at the moment, before winter hits.  Then I am down to 2-3 hour rides depending on the cold, (my feet freeze).  Then build back up in the spring.
    You want your long rides, (for now) to be steady efforts, (Z2) - aerobic biking.
    Add in 1-2 turbo sessions (each for hour), and a second medium ride if possible.

    Get your bike fit  / bike sorted. 

    I did 5:07 last year in perfect conditions, My previous best was 5:30 so a couple of years solid training pay dividends.

    Throw some IM efforts in later in the year in the long rides
    Add some over distance rides in later on, (ie 8 hour ride)

    A 6 hour steady ride should become a normal thing for you

    A power meter is nice to have but not essential.  Nice wheels help image

    Run
    3:30 is not a 'quick' marathon time, but it is a quick IM marathon time.
    You need 'strength' and resilience, not outright speed,.  You need to be very aerobically fit to run well off the bike.
    A diet of 4-6 runs a week - all at an easy areobic pace for now (max hr 140 for me - about top of Z2).  You don't want to be *fast*, just fit enough not to slow down.  Later add some +5 - 5 hr intervals in a run
    Long run starts at 60 min and then ends up with regular 90 min runs.  Do regular 2.5 hour runs once you have the basic week sorted

    Other things....
    I find regular core / lunges / squats functional training helps makes my legs 'strong' and able to just keep going when you are buggered

    A spring training camp, (IM specific) may help -  you should see how fit others are that can do sub 10, and still have time to adjust / learn their habits

    Think a coach may help? I found it really useful.  Even if its just for a year it may well help and you should learn a few things about how to train seriously.  Its expensive but....

    My 'approach' is volume based, but I found that worked for me, (till I broke image  )  Others prefer intensity - there is no right way - you just have to get  really really fit image

    Have a chat to Funkin, Rosie etc - Hopefully they may add a few thoughts on here too.  If not give them a PM - I've always found them really helpull and supportive

    ** Go GO team engineer! **

     

  • OK – I don’t really have time for another social media addiction and trust me I was bloody addicted to these forums so I doubt I’ll contribute much here. For those wondering about background etc then mine can be seen here http://athlinks.com/racer/18941261 but doesn’t show the 2 IM’s I’ve failed to finish, one due to avoiding a car and the other through heatstroke and passing out 200m before the finish line L

    These are the ideas I’d like to cover in another location:

    1)      Belief – I’ve no doubt that like a sub 3 marathon, anyone can go sub 10 (10:30 Female) (course dependant maybe use Thorsten’s table to give you an example although this relates to PRO times http://www.trirating.com/course-ratings/ so first thing you need to go sub 10 is the belief that you can do it.

    2)      Now that you believe you can do it – understand what’s required to do it and decide do you want it enough? I’d love to play the drums and go skydiving but I’ve tried neither nor done anything about it – so I obviously don’t want it that much. Be realistic and don’t set silly expectations unless you’re willing to commit to these, this could involve many years.

    3)      Becoming comfortable with being uncomfortable – You need to be well versed with being uncomfortable in training, this isn’t balls out, this is being able to sustain a level of discomfort such as a hard 1/2M that is basically the feeling you’ll have for a good part of the IM run.

    4)      Building strength – Swim, Bike and Run – you need to get strong in all 3 disciplines to make it feel easier and be able to race at a high level but not at an effort that will cause you to walk the run. If you find you’re prone to injuries, you’re probably not strong enough to do the level of work required JUST NOW but if you build and maintain you’ll get there.

    5)      Know your efforts – Pacing is key, you can use tools or you can use RPE but you’ve got to know the correct effort to pump out to make sure that you can maintain the right level right to the finish.

    6)      Consistency – this is key – you know you’re capable; you’re prepared to commit to the plan, you’re happy to get into those uncomfortable sessions, now you’ve just got to do it and do it at least 6 days a week for as long as it takes.

    7)      Staying out of the grey zone – Train easy, train hard but try to limit that in between zone 2 stuff, it’s fun but pretty pointless.

    There you go....food for thought. 

  • Re 7......  i am doing my long rides at 129 ish with bits up to 140.  Thats upper z1 to mid z2.  

    As usual the fittet you get then the hr falls .... so i guess i now ride around 120-135.... No one right answer........ we are all a little different image

  • one thing I'd like to add to Fegan's comments - all of which are excellent

    unless you're single or not in a serious relationship, you need to ensure that your significant other (and kids if applicable) are onboard with this.

    most of you know this already but once you want to step up to the next level, your focus also needs to move up and your personal relationship needs to be managed well as well.

    FWI - I don't believe everyone can go sub-10.  but I think most can if they want it enough.  I believe I could have done when I was in my 20's or 30's - now I'm in my 60's I think I can kiss a sub-10 goodbye (not that I'm planning another IM anyway!). 

  • The first step of the battle for me is seeing the times required and not thinking any single one is out of my reach.

    Swim: I did 1:05 at Outlaw 2012. Happy to recreate that or maybe sqeak in under the hour.

    Bike: 5:32 at Outlaw 2012 was certainly good for where I was at the time, but I have improved significantly on the bike since then. 5:45 at IMCH in different conditions, left me a lot fresher for the run.

    Run: 3:53 at IMCH on

  • FB - I wouldn't worry, nobody significant is likely to settle for meimage

  • OK - age and disabilities need to be factored in...

    Oh something I missed as covered by FB

    8) Prepare to be shit - If you want to advance your career, be a good partner, father, friend etc then this isn't for you - you won't manage it and those around you need to support you in this or you'll start resenting those who are quite rightly looking for your attention.

     

    OC - don't know your zones but 140 isn't grey to me, that's race pace. I'd say there are right answers, just differing opinions image but remember none of us are actually that good and to get to our level you can do a lot of stuff sub-optimally and happily play in the 9 to 10 hours range - we're not top AGers or anywhere near elite level.

  • TheEngineer wrote (see)

    FB - I wouldn't worry, nobody significant is likely to settle for meimage

    have you and Golden Boots fallen out already??  image

  • I'm planning 2 more IM's Nice and Austria.  I'd like to go as fast as humanly possible at Austria. (For me anyway)

    I sent you a FB message FeganTC.

  • Gary,  Interested in the " grey zone" bit. Is this what people refer to as junk miles?

    I guess if we want to get faster, be it sub12 or sub 10, we need to make training sessions count and not just do the hours.

    Where does the grey zone sit as % of max heart rate?

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