P&D Spring Marathon 2020

The time has surely come for the new thread! All are welcome - new and old, P&D or otherwise. So if you’ve been lurking, now is the time to speak up. Let the list begin...
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  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    Sorequads - London Marathon, sub 3 on sub 50M/a week, Mission marathon plan


    Saw this and quite like the look of it. By Tom Craggs, of Fast Running and Let’s Get Running. I like how it is time based which gives a bit more flexibility. I probably won’t follow it religiously, but hope to use it as a structure that is slightly different from previous campaigns. https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/marathon/a776660/mission-marathon-training-plan-sub-3-hours/
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    Nice one SQ.

    Im in, London (or Brighton) with sub 255 as the target. Hope to get in sub 80min shape by Worthing or Fleet too.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    SQ - those off road races whete its just racing with no time pressure are ideal. I did a few trail races this summer, and you just run hard and try to beat others.......i think Chichester is still open at the mo. Wokingham is one i always fancy but its a ballache to get to so never do it. I have Worthing 1/2 (cant face missing it in case its not windy and im not there), and fleet 1/2.
  • TR said:
    SQ - those off road races whete its just racing with no time pressure are ideal. I did a few trail races this summer, and you just run hard and try to beat others.......
    Couldn’t agree more. And I tend to finish a bit higher up than at Telford!

    Is Worthing super fast on a still day? Too far for me, but it does seem popular. I also fancy Reading one year. I think Joe (and others) have done it. Any reviews?
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    SQ - worthing is a bit twisty early on but then is all straight lines on the seafront, would be quick if its still, but thats a big if. Never done Reading but its also quick. Fleet is a bit bumpy at times, but its a big race with loads of quick runners to chase.
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the new thread SQ

    Im in for Southampton marathon on the same day as London. Aiming for 2:59
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭
    Great thread everyone.

    I'm big fan of P&D having running my first marathon using the 55 to 70 plan in 2010.

    I ran Abingdon in October 2019 using a variant of the 70 to 85 plan and managed to surprise myself with a PB of 2:51.

    I'll be using a similar 18-week plan for London in 2020 and am optimistically hoping I can dip under 2:50.
  • Good call SQ. I was minded to do it myself but last time I tried that it turned out HA had got there already  :D Welcome SBD
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Nice one SQ - so the sandbagging begins already. Sub 3!!! 
    Reading is alright. Has a bit more of a big race feel than Wokingham. There are 2 solid hills (~3 miles and 10 miles) but it's still pretty fast and the stadium finish is good. I don't think it's as fast as Wokingham. I think it's quite expensive but you only get a shitty cotton shirt.

    Welcome SBD, good to have you aboard

    Well done in Telford Jools, SQ and Spoon. Nice hit-out.

    Sounds like a potent brew Jools, always risky.

    AWC - great work on the win and avoiding the tanks. Very impressive that you're so casual about taking on an off-road marathon.

    Nothing much for me really. Not even 40 miles last week. Will have to do better.

  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    London 26/4

    SQ - sub 3, 50mpw Mission plan
    SBD - sub 2:50, 70-85
    HA77 - 2:30, DIY 50-60mpw

    Southampton 26/4

    AWC - 2:59
  • AWC - Congrats on the win and solid time on a hilly course.
    Hamo - Great long run.
    12 miles this morning for me.
  • Manchester 5/4
    SteveMac - ?? - P&D 18 week 50-70

    London 26/4

    SQ - sub 3, 50mpw Mission plan
    SBD - sub 2:50, 70-85
    HA77 - 2:30, DIY 50-60mpw

    Southampton 26/4

    AWC - 2:59
  • Good work SQ. Will be interested to see how you get on with that plan. As I said on Sunday, with the endurance base you already have I suspect it’ll serve you well.

    I’m in for Worthing too TR, see you there. I’m a big fan of the course, I’ve always ran very well there - even 2018 when it was very windy. It’s a little twisty in the first half, but nothing too tight. And it’s pancake flat. 

    Welcome SBD, always nice to see some new faces. Congrats on your 2:51.

    Legs are feeling surprisingly beaten up after Telford, I guess not running further than 5K “fast” since Berlin, and the general reduced mileage and intensity meant it was a bit of a shock for them. Kept it to recovery pace yesterday and today, and they're gradually feeling better. I’m down in London on Friday for a Christmas do, so it’s tempting to attempt a bit of parkrun tourism, but I suspect that won’t seem such a good idea on Saturday morning :lol:

  • Manchester 5/4
    SteveMac - ?? - P&D 18 week 50-70

    London 26/4
    SQ - sub 3, 50mpw Mission plan
    SBD - sub 2:50, 70-85
    HA77 - 2:30, DIY 50-60mpw
    RunSpoonRun - TBD

    Southampton 26/4
    AWC - 2:59
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    Good to see you're leaving the sandbags for the others HA.
    I reckon you'll smash that target AWC with another solid marathon campaign under your belt given the endurance gains you've made this year.
    Go on Spoons, you know parkrun is the best buzz on a Saturday. Find one you can run to & make a session of it if you don't fancy racing it.
    8M along the canal this morning followed by a TRunch (treadmill run lunch) - was meant to be another track session but the rain & blustery gusts weren't selling it to me & when no kids turned up I opted for the comfort of a TM session: 1K wu/5x1K off 500m steady/1K cd K's were all 3:46 rather than 3:45 due to the lag on the belt with 2:24 recovery. Average pace for the 9K was 6:51 B) Really enjoyable sweatfest :p

  • Afternoon all. Great to see the list building and a very warm welcome to those newcomers. Look forward to hearing about your training. 
    Thank you, HA. That is helpful. Will probably stick to just Wokingham then. Reading does look expensive. Legitimate sandbagging accusation - although the 2:50 performances were off 85M/week. Will be interesting to see the difference it makes. I also genuinely want to enjoy London first and foremost and am not stressed about a PB. Have you a cross country soon?
    That just have been sweaty, Jools 😆. Good running. 

    Recovery mode after Sunday’s Telford 10k. 10M easy (7:30-40 once I was up and running) yesterday then 2 x 4M slow recovery today, 8:50 pace. Trying to see if I can make logistics work to get to my first cross country of the year this Saturday. 
  • Greetings all (and hey Joe). Long time lurker here (have enjoyed reading some of your exploits) - mostly as I don't do strict P&D, more like an inspired by P&D due to a) I fall into the old and busted category (52 year old menopausal old wreck), b) it has to fit around my dirty parkrun tourist habit and c) muggins here thought it was hoot to enter the Tokyo ballot (having already signed up for Manchester) thinking I was in no danger of getting in, and I got in. Which means I'm on a bloody tight schedule.

    I ran my first sub-4 in Yorkshire and haven't had much time to recover before getting back on the horse again, and I've already managed to knock out one 45 and two 51 mile weeks. This week will be a cut-back as I'm doing a 10K on Sunday, which is the only distance I've not managed to PB this year (mostly because I've only done the one, and it was blowing a gale).

    Speed is only just starting to come back - I ran what is technically a 5K PB on the track on Saturday (I say technically because I've done one parkrun faster, but I'm not convinced it wasn't a bit short as I've not got within 30 seconds of it before or since) but I have a bugger of a time producing that in training.

    I did 9 miles this morning and was hoping to do three or four of those at MP (around 9 min/mi) but failed to hit it three miles in a row before finally managing one mile at 9:02. Thing was, it felt like 5K pace, effort-wise. I looked at my data afterwards and saw my cadence was in the 190s for three of those miles, which is what I was doing on the track on Saturday, just with much, much shorter strides. I've realised that I'm subconsciously doing that when I run in the dark as I become super cautious when I can't really see where I'm putting my feet (I'm in London, but the street lamps can be quite far apart on the side streets I use for winter running, and a lot of the pavements are uneven). So I think in future I'll save my faster runs for later in the morning when I can see where I'm going.

    Anyway, race-wise, I have Farnham half in January. Also signed up to Hampton Court before finding out about Tokyo, but it's the weekend before it so not sure it'd be smart to run it. After that it's Tokyo and Manchester (if I don't get sick or injured - I have a habit of getting shingles, colds or angry tendons after a marathon), then Greenbelt Relay in May, my first ultra in June ("just" 30 miles, which I figure is enough for the first one) then Ealing Half, Chicago and Valencia Marathons at the end of the year.

    I'm hoping to get a GFA this year - technically my Yorkshire time (3:57:08) is a GFA but they only accepted 3:55:40 and below this year so I reckon they'll lower it. Not sure I'll manage it in Tokyo due to the time difference and Manchester is only 5 weeks afterwards so I guess we'll see what happens.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    Welcome Cal. Good to have a new poster. That's quite a packed year you have lined up already! Parkrun tourism is not a dirty habit at all JoeB & I are serial offenders I'm on 394 runs at 133 events in 8yrs & 5 months :D There are several other regular parkrunners on the thread who also indulge in some more casual PR tourism. I quite enjoy running in the dark but would never try anything pace-based for just the reason you suggest. Those dropped kerbs can give you quite a jolt if you don't know they're coming. Done the Farnham Pilgrim Marathon 3x but never heard of Farnham Half even though my sister & dad still live there. Any idea what it's like?
    FWIW I'd advise jogging Hampton Court then treating Tokyo as a bit of fun as you're unlikely ever to go back so avoid time pressures & treat it as a full distance training run. Make it mildly progressive & you'll be overtaking folk at the end which always feels great (I'd imagine). You'd then still be able to train for 2-3 weeks leading up to Manchester which is far more likely to yield the PB & GFA you're after. I've stuck you on the list btw. Feel free to edit the target time of course :) 
  • Manchester 5/4
    SteveMac - ?? - P&D 18 week 50-70
    Cal Jones - 3:50 (?)

    Brighton 19/4
    Jooligan - 3:0x, 70M inc a parkrun each week, some XC & a few other races I'd imagine

    London 26/4
    SQ - sub 3, 50mpw Mission plan
    SBD - sub 2:50, 70-85
    HA77 - 2:30, DIY 50-60mpw
    RunSpoonRun - TBD

    Southampton 26/4
    AWC - 2:59
  • sorry, what is P&D? Stupid question no doubt. 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Simon - its not for you ! It has dedicated mara only plans that go on for ages..
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Welcome to Cal, im 52 too, theres plenty of coffin dodgers still trying ti run strong maras.

    SBD - nice to see you here. 2.51 as a M55 is cracking, hopefully I'll be a bit closer to you at vlm than abo. What variations do you plan apart from the no doubles ? A weekly 10k tempo again ? Im not doing doubles either.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    Spoons - worthing is expensive and i think they are in it for the money, as they dont seem to give prizes ( i was 2nd m50 in 2018, and 1st this year), but i have got the logistics weighed off. Im parked up a couple of miles West of the start within 45mins, then do the 2m as a w/u, do the race and then 2m back again......the downside is the wind, not sure if it was windier this year or last, but one day there will be a fast year (although it might have been 2017).

    With SQs advice of not peaking too early, in my mind as well as remembering i upped the 8m mp to 10m saturday, i changed todays LT to GA inc strides. Esp as the 18 weeks hasnt started yet.
  • SCoombes2 said:
    sorry, what is P&D? Stupid question no doubt. 
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Advanced-Marathoning-Peter-Pfitzinger/dp/0736074600 Lots of us have used it with good success. Quite periodised, with lots of miles and tempos early on, then fairly short vO2 later on. Not for everyone, but the first half of the book is invaluable marathon training advice regardless. Join in with the chat either way! I may have my wires crossed, but were you the S Coombes who came very high up in the recent LFOTM 5k? Excellent racing if so. It was my first time there. 

    Hi Cal Jones. An exciting year ahead. You might rival Jooligan’s racing schedule with that agenda! I’d love to do Tokyo one day. 

    So when does your 18 weeks start, TR. And get yourself on the list!
  • I mostly like the book for the impressively short shorts on the front cover. Something to aspire to. 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    SQ - Mon 23rd Dec.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Manchester 5/4
    SteveMac - ?? - P&D 18 week 50-70
    Cal Jones - 3:50 (?)

    Brighton 19/4
    Jooligan - 3:0x, 70M inc a parkrun each week, some XC & a few other races I'd imagine

    London 26/4
    SQ - sub 3, 50mpw Mission plan
    SBD - sub 2:50, 70-85
    HA77 - 2:30, DIY 50-60mpw
    RunSpoonRun - TBD
    TR - operation sub 2:55, 18wk no doubles

    Southampton 26/4
    AWC - 2:59
  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    Good to see the new thread off to a great start and new faces - welcome SBD and Cal.

    Slightly jealous to see all the racing opportunities you guys get, there's not many competitive options here in Sydney until well into May. Upside is that there should be plenty of race reports to dive into! I agree about SQ's sandbagging!

    Not sure if it was on the news over there but yesterday's smoke haze was the worst I've experienced. Was going to head out to meet some others for a harbour run at 6, only to be hit by fumes on opening the door. Lots of photos around, here's an example of how bad it got:


    Got a good TM workout though, 6x1k getting faster. I've realised I quite enjoy hard workouts on the TM, makes it seem easier than outdoors and no need to think about maintaining paces. May even choose to do some more in the next few weeks.
  • You take 1 day off the thread and this happens, ive so much to catch up on.. :D 

    SQ...Cheers for starting us off for Spring. Be interesting to see how you go changing your training up a bit with a new plan. 

    TR...Sensible, nice strides.

    AWC...All the best in your sub 3 attempt. Huge congrats on the mara win too by the way, class.

    SBD...Welcome. That is  class Marathon pb already, but the bigger mileage might help you lower it again.

    Steve...Nice MLR.

    Spoons...Take it easy with the recovery, and use your frustrations of this year to smash next year pb wise.

    Jools...Nice treadmill work, good pace.

    Cal...Good to have you posting. That is a busy year you have planned, super Jealous of Tokyo too. Best off luck with the gfa, i agree with Jools, Manchester could be your best bet with that.

    John...Seen the smoke on the news recently when they were talking about the cricket, i think, shocking. Nice reps, not sure i'd agree on enjoying the treadmill though :D 


    Club Session last night was 7x1000m off 90 secs. I ran it hard but not flat out as I've a trail 10k on Saturday. I got a free entry into it for coming 2nd in the trail race i done at the start of November. As its my last 'free' weekend before p&d starts i thought why not give it a crack, and see how i get on, even if it is 2 5k laps up and down the side of a mountain :flushed::D 

    Backed that up with a 14m MLR this morning, didn't really push the pace, just enjoyed the peace and quiet of the tow path.

    I'll add my name to the list now...
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