P&D Spring Marathon 2020

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  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Good stuff Cal, youve been at it.

    Rest day yday, but back to it today. 18 weeks to vlm has started, so i was hoping id got over the lurgy enough for the LT run. 10m inc strides and LT it was. Copped an absolute drenching and the wind played havoc with the LT pace, but it was nice to turn the wheels a bit quicker. Hopefully its ejected the last of the snottiness too.

    Onwards and upwards.

    Keep enjoying the festivities.
  • It was windy for my 9 miler in Manchester too. Today is a rest day as I'm about to leave to get my train home.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    10m easy yday.

    P and D said 16m today, i tried to follow the mp+20% 1st 8m and mp+10% 2nd 8m. Legs complained a lot due to doing the LT run thursday this week.

    32m to go off 3 runs.
  • From a good parkrun to a crap one. I had two events left to complete all the London parkruns, and today was Walthamstow, which is three laps of a playing field and, as it was called off last week due to waterlogging, I was expecting mud. Unlike you XC peeps, I am not a fan. I have trail shoes but they are not up to proper mud, so I slid around in just under half an hour (29:55) which I think is my slowest parkrun to date, apart from the one where I was tail walker. Never mind, just one left now. It was, at least, a very friendly event, and I can always go back in the summer for a guaranteed course PB.
  • HA that is an impressive couple of days - XC into a 17M. 
    TR you are off to a stormer with the P&D. Yes - did ice on sorest days. Will do so again tomorrow afternoon. 
    SBD a sub 40 10k in training takes some doing. Nice one. 
    Excellent parkrun tourism, Cal. amazing to have done almost all in London. How many is that?


    A very easy week for me. 4-5 milers. One brief foray into intervals with 4 x 3 mins, but I have mostly been feeling pretty tired and stuffed. ‘Tis the season! The highlight was definitely my first parkrun/buggy run since September on Christmas morning. Glorious weather, huge turnout and a cracking atmosphere. Brilliant start to the day. Managed to persuade the 4yo back in the buggy this morning, thoroughly enjoying running the odd section with her when the mood struck. Won’t be too long until I can get the wee nipper in the buggy. 
    Foot is definitely less sore than last week, although I have run less. Still wouldn’t be keen to do, say, a side plank and put weight directly on the outside. 
    In my infinite wisdom, I have upgraded my 7Sins entry to that of an ‘Immortal’. This involves running the course in reverse first. But for only £3 extra, and having done the 7M several times, it seems a good plan to mix things up. So 14M, 1000m ascent and a shed load of mud. Can you tell I’m keen to burn a few calories? Really looking forward to some picturesque trails and fun in the forest. Although doing the course initially in reverse, does mean you start with the two water tunnels...
  • SQ - 56 in London (of which I've done 55) but I've done 66 overall - a few that aren't too far from London, and two in Manchester where my mate lives.
    Just ordered some spikes in case I end up at any other mudfests!
  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    Nice parkrunning Cal, that must have taken some travelling to get to all of them. Which ones are the fastest/best/most fun?

    TR - still getting in some solid mileage, should definitely tick off your target. How did the pace feel? I mostly do my P&D LRs nearer MP+20%, tough to go any faster with big weeks so well done for getting it done. 

    SQ - like the buggy cross training, and good news about the foot. Your race sounds “fun”, good value for doubling up though so why not!

    SBD - that’s a really good LT workout, welcome to the TM club!

    HA77 - Great backing up the XC with a LR. Anyone would find that a hard couple of days. I got sick once after I raced a hard 10k followed by a 22 miler the next day, so I know how you felt. 

    Still on track to run every day in Dec, another week of just under 70 miles of mostly easy running. Today was the first LR with MP - managed 13k at 4:03/km which I think is around 8 miles at 6:30/mile Found it hard but the first of these always is. Didn’t help that I had a bad night’s sleep in a tent in the garden with my youngest (had to make up for a missed father-son camp when I was running NYC marathon
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    SQ - 7 sins sounds amazing. 1,000m over 14mi is some good vert! You’ll certainly burn a few calories!

    Just a quick check in to say that I finished the Winter Cross 45mi Ultra in 6hr 34min which was good enough for 5th place. 
    Tough course with 27mi on a very muddy, slippery South Downs Way - there was a few close shaves on slippery chalk downhills but managed to keep my feet just! 
    Nice way to finish the year. 
  • JohnOz - my fastest was 24:09 at Beckenham, which surprised me as it's mostly grass, and I've not got within half a minute of that at any other parkrun (even my track 5K was 24:35) so I'm a bit suspicious about the length. Having said that, I'd also run a sub-25 on a very undulating course midweek so it could also be that I was on excellent form that week, though I remember having a lot of niggles.
    I definitely want to go back to Victoria Dock which is pancake flat and has a relatively small field so it's good for a fast time (you can also get to it on the cablecar). It was one of the first ones I visited after deciding to try other parkruns than my local one and I knocked 30 seconds off my home run PB. Given I'm a bit quicker now, I'm interested to see if I could get closer to 24.
    Osterley is a really nice one - it's out near Heathrow, but it's a National Trust property and is very scenic. I PB'd there when I did it so it's quick, too. I also like Northala Fields, which was my first sub-25 parkrun - it's one lap and goes around some interesting mounds that were constructed from the rubble of the old Wembley Stadium. If you go to Rickmansworth, the lakes you run around were created when the stone for the stadium was originally mined, so it's like a parkrun circle of life.

    Well done on the every day running and the father-son bonding time. I keep forgetting your seasons are opposite to ours - I don't think any Brits would fancy a sleep out at the moment!

    Brilliant job, AWC - that sounds rather hair-raising (slippery downhills are my personal nightmare) but that's excellent you came 5th.

    Another 20 in the bag, but quicker. More or less the same route as last week (couple of minor variations) and still a fairly slow start but not quite as slow (only four miles over 11) and once I got to Dulwich I picked up a bit. Last week's run was pretty slow - just over 3:37 - but this time, once I'd got within two miles of home I realised I could get under 3:30 if I pushed on. I didn't get up to MP but the last mile was my pre-Yorkshire MP (a smidge under 9:30) so I finished in 3:29:47.

    Most of my bodyparts behaved pretty well, although I did get some twinges under the arches of my feet - mostly the left one. It's probably a combination of low-drop shoes and mud yesterday making my calfs and post-tibs rather tight, but in any case, this was the last run for my current pair of Epics, which have now exceeded 700 miles. They're meant to last 600 but I always squeeze another 100 or so out of them as they don't really show any wear. I'm rather curious to see if a fresh pair will improve my speed any (there were no 11+ miles during my easy 9 miler in Manchester, when I wore the Zoom Flys I'd taken for the parkrun).
    Right, I'm now going to marinate myself in Epsom Salts.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    Thats a lot of parkruns Cal, my sum total is 0.

    SQ - sounds like you are in for a tough day.

    John - i would normally be 20% ish too. 10% was a nice effort, enough to be a bit of a test but easy enougg to be comfortable.

    AWC - you have had a cracking year. South Downs way must be very wet at the mo.

    10m easy for me today.
  • SQ - got a mate of mine doing that, though I expect he is doing the regular 7. Hope it goes well.
  • Wow 55 different London locations is amazing. What a great way to see the running spectrum. Super long run!
    Big week, John. You’re looking good for 6ft. When is it? Most importantly, great dad skills. 
    Hell of an effort, AWC. Great way to finish the year, and what a year you’ve had. You’d have loved today, although perhaps not with the ultra in your legs!


    Good fun at the Immortal today. 14.8M including 14 hills, totalling 1000m of ascent. Plenty of mud, brutal climbs and technical descents but also glorious trails. 4 water tunnels to clamber through; the climbs immediately following these helped defrost the feet. Reduced to a walk for some of the climbs in the second half, my main goal was to finish before the main 7M race winners. It took be about 2:12 and they started 90 minutes later, so held them off comfortably in the end. On a spectrum of cheap old school XC to expensive commercial mud runs, it definitely sits closer to the former, thank goodness. I came about tenth, although didn’t stick around at the end to find out for sure. Really enjoyed a different challenge. Suspect I might be fairly stiff for a couple of days from all the hills and slipping around. 
  • Great job, SQ - I guess your name will apply tomorrow.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Well done SQ, i wondered if it would be a bit Tough Mudder, good that it was more xc.
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    That almost sounds like fun SQ - glad to hear you enjoyed it.

    You've put in some good session over the last week TR.  I often find MP+10% a difficult pace to nail at the end of the long runs.

    Well done on the 20 miler Cal - 3.5 hours is a long time to be running.  And congratulations on completing all the London parkruns - Rickmansworth is close to me but I've yet to do.  Black Park is my normal haunt but it's probably just outside the London definition.

    Excellent result at the Winter Cross Ultra AWC.  It sounds like tough conditions but that's a really good time and placing - you must be very pleased.

    Good work on the December mileage John and a really good Long Run with MP.  I can never hit MP on these early runs unless I'm in a race, so the pace you managed to hit bodes well.

    Managed to run every day over Christmas, including 10 miles in beautiful conditions on Christmas day and 10 miles progressive on Friday.  Today was the 18 miler and it was a bit of a mental struggle to get out the door.  As usual, after the first kilometre the legs felt fine and the enthusiasm returned.

    18 miles @ 7:40, with the last 5 miles @ 7:18 (just about MP+10%).  Good to get the long run mileage back up nearer twenty but I'm now feeling suitably wrecked.  70 miles for the week and 3,386 year to date.

  • Nice 18, SBD. That's a hell of a total. I've done a bit over 1900 which is my highest ever - I've set myself a target of 2000 next year. Incidentally, Rickmansworth is a very nice parkrun - fast and flat round lakes, though a little busy. Probably best to hit that one after the January madness subsides.

    As with last week, I had to get a run done today (normally a rest day) as I'm busy tomorrow morning. (I'm actually off to an early showing of the new Star Wars movie. I may squeeze in a short run later if I can be arsed, but being a morning person, I find if I don't go out early, I don't tend to go out at all).
    I was awake early so I went out at just before half past five. It was cold but clear at that point and my early miles were at a normal recovery pace (10:40s). However, as I got on to the less well lit roads, my pace dropped, and then it became foggy and frost started to form so it dropped even more as I became cautious with my footing. I decided at that point that I shouldn't try to push for double figures and would settle for 8, but I hit 8 miles a good half mile from home so I looped around another road to make it 9 and injected some strides to get my legs working properly again. It was still dark when I got back.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    SBD - good work, on multiple fronts. I did an 18m last week, so hopefully the 20s will be an easy transition. When is your first build up race?

    Cal - well done on the strides, great idea. How many 20s would you typically do before a mara? I have a bit of a theory that anything over 3hrs is only to be done a couple of times in the build up?

    14m today, 8m needed tomorrow.
  • Yeah TR, I've heard that theory but I generally do three or four 20+ runs (I've been up to 22 a few times, though, granted, last time I did it, it was because I took a wrong turn during what was meant to be a 20). At my pace, even an 18 is going to take me three hours, but since I'm going to be racing for 4, rather than less than 3 like some of you guys, I've adapted to it. Normally I'd space them out a bit more but I have a 10K this Sunday so I opted to do two in a row.
  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    Well done SQ. When I see the seasoned runners motor down the hills it makes you realise that trail running is almost a different sport! 

    Nice LRs SBD, Cal and TR, all great base building. 

    Finished off Dec with 12 miles today and just under 2,600 for the year. A bit down on the last few years due to the niggles at Easter but managed to make up a lot of the missed miles in the second half of the year. Ended up really well as I broke all my PBs, doubt I’ll repeat that again but let’s see what 2020 brings. 

    Happy New year everyone!
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Cal - sounds like you are on top of tge long runs then without doing too much.

    John - cant beat a year that has pbs at all distances.

    10m inc 4m LT, 346 for December, 3502 for 2019.

    Year was a bit tough early on family wise, but ended up well with 2.55.12 and 81.3X ( a pace i ran a 10k at in january).

    Best wishes to all in 2020.
  • Happy New Year all. No running today - post tib is a bit niggly so figured it best to rest before tomorrow's double parkrun onslaught. I did walk a bit more than 5 miles to see the final Star Wars movie (which I did enjoy) so I've got my exercise for the day.
  • Evening all. Wishing everyone a fun evening and a very happy new year for tomorrow. May the marathon training commence!
    Great long run and consistency, SBD. 


    Quads not too bad post immortal. I think the couple of hilly runs I did in the week before helped, as well as the slow pace necessitated by the mud. 14M this morning in Wells at 7:15 pace. Nice to run somewhere different. Once you get over the hills toward the levels, it is well, ridiculous flat. And also straight. If there was no wind you could run a fast race on these quiet roads. 
    It’s felt a bit of a strange year running wise. A strong first few months, before an understandably varied latter half. My big goal of the spring was to break 2:50  (fifth crack at this!) at London. Whilst this didn’t quite happen - 2:50:16 - I really felt like I raced well, finished strong and enjoyed the crowds. Looking back, what more can I ask for? Now I analyse things, I PBed at 5k road last month (17:53), 1M (5:21), 5M (28:24), 10k (35:53 - proud of this one), half (1:18:56) and full (all spring). Can’t really complain about 2019! 3345M across the year. Going to set a process goal of 50M/week for 2020. I suspect I could target a 10M PB (61:5x) as it is fairly soft, although they are few and far between. I also want to keep enjoying all things running, balance family time and have a go at a couple of track and country races.
  • Hope the post tib is ok, Cal. 
    Cracking couple of late year race times there, TR. 
    You’ve had a great year, John. Agreed re trail running. I do enjoy the mental challenge of picking the best line and surface to run on. A bit frustrating at the weekend that some of the descents were a touch too muddy and slippery to really hammer down - probably why my quads aren’t too bad. 
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭
    That's a good run post immortal SQ.  Lots of impressive PBs - are you not tempted by the Sub 60 minutes 10 mile target? 

    Rest is good Cal.

    That's a great annual total TR and some excellent results.

    Sounds like you had a great second half of the year John - beating PBs is always good for the motivation.

    What better way to end the year than a tempo run.  So the usual 10 miles with the middle 10K at threshold pace on the treadmill late afternoon.  Not quite in the mood for too much mental suffering, so an average of 6:20 pace for the 10K, with the HR only peaking at 173.  Brings me up to 3,402 for the year which is far in excess of any previous years.   There was no real target, I just managed to avoid injury for the main and not let the mileage drop too much between the spring and autumn marathon campaigns.

    It was good to get a couple of PBs in 2019 (parkrun, 10K and marathon) but the highlight has to be the 2:51 time at Abingdon.  Would like to push these a little further in 2020 but we'll have to see what the training brings.

    Wishing everyone an injury-free 2020 and lots of PBs.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Quick post. Will consider year summary later.

    Great work SQ. Sounds an awesome race. Well worth signing up for the longer version.

    AWC - another great one to top off a great year. Well done.

    John - great year of PBS. Great work on the sleepout. That's more important than any run.

    TR - awesome yearly mileage

    Cal, SBD great runs.


  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Cal - i remember going to see the first Star Wars (1977?).

    SQ - you had a great year on many fronts. Some really good running times, only a smudge away from 2.49 and then the new arrival.

    SBD  - top stuff, you are non doubles like me ? So thats a lot of double digit runs. Good going to keep that mileage up all year, i had 3 maras to your 2, so you did well to keep the miles high in May and June (when i had yeovil). 2.51 was fair reward.

    6m easy today, i took great delight in having no scoreboard pressure and being able to run "only" 6m.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Great job, SBD.
    TR - nice to have a no pressure run. Yes, 1977.
    Double parkrun today - pretty mediocre times at both, but never mind. The first was Canons Park, which is the last of the London parkruns I needed for "Londone." It was quite crowded on the first lap and I got pretty hampered by slower runners (I'm by no means fast, but a lot of the peeps who started in front of me seemed to be out for a post-booze jog) and there was a muddy bit we had to traverse three times so I only just scraped in under 27 minutes. Never mind, getting all of London's 56 parkruns done is its own achievement.
    Then it was back on the tube for Gladstone, a hilly bastard of a run that I last did in 2018. The RD gleefully told us that, as a treat, we'd be running the course in reverse today, and that most people found it tougher this way around. No kidding. The steepest hill would now be taken downhill, which did not fill me with joy due to my nervousness on descents (you ultra-running peeps would laugh at this hill but honestly, I hate anything steeper than a gradual gradient, and today my achilles and post-tib were moaning about it as well.) There was also a lovely submerged path we had to cross twice, so I went for the wet sock option rather than the sticky mud either side of it. Just over 28 minutes here, which is quite a bit slower than I ran it when I did it the conventional way round.
    But never mind, two more parkruns done, and a new year begun.
    Happy New Year, all.

  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    HNY all.
    Top parkrunning Cal. I’ve been in London for a couple of days so did Wanstead Flats & Valentine’s as my double thus bringing up 400 in total. I’ve done both before in faster times even though WF was the day before VLM18.
    Great job at the Immortal SQ.
    Some big mileage totals there & plenty of PBs as reward.
    None from me but only 20xx miles run which is my lowest since 2014 when I switched focus to the bike for IMW after the spring marathon campaign.
    I’ve got out most days over Xmas but only for 6-8 milers often with a Parkrun sandwiched between wu & cd but I’ve also eaten my body weight in cheese & drunk copious amounts of alcohol 🤣 Doubt I’ve made any fitness gains though hopefully I’ve at least staved off the worst effects of Xmas excess. Just over a fortnight till my first race of 2020: the Speedway 10K. Should be quicker than Telford at least.
  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    Happy New Year everyone.

    I've finally put the Turkey, chocolates and wine down, so I have a bit to catch up on, forgive me.


    Cal...Class work on the parkruns. 'Londone' ...I like that :D puts my 5/6 at my local (3 miles from my door) parkrun to shame a bit. Fair play to you getting one in on Christmas Day too, i couldn't do that.

    SQ...Class running, and commitment upping the distance, at the 7 sins. You've had a really good year, some collection of pbs too.

    AWC...Brilliant running at your Ultra, well done.

    TR...Nice LT and MP stuff, you're putting us all to shame with your consistency. Awesome work on getting over the 3500 mile mark in the end, class.

    HA77...Well done at the XC.

    SBD...You are banging out the 10k LT runs at the minute, excellent. Really big year from you too.

    John...Brilliant going with a red December, no way i could get out on Christmas Day, or the best day of the year, Boxing Day :lol: Excellent year pb wise for you, hope and expect you to continue the trend this year.

    Jools...Good work over Christmas. It'll be interesting to see how you go at the Speedway 10k, i suspect very well. You've certainly built it back up well.


    My 2019 was my best year in running hands down. I pb'd over every distance (the mile through to the marathon). I found a consistency to my running, that hadn't really been there before in a 'training smart' sense, helped no end by following a plan for London (p&d obviously :lol: ) for the 1st time ever. It also helped me stay injury free (the odd niggle, self inflicted twisted ankle :flushed: aside), which obviously helped with the consistency too. 3795 miles for the year, up from 2343 in 2018, so I can't complain one bit.

    I had Christmas Day, and Boxing day off over the Christmas break, but other than that have just been plugging away following the first few weeks of the schedule. 10 mile with 4 at LT pace for a 2nd time (5.32 average over the effort), and a few Medium Long, and long runs being the main runs of note of the fortnight. 

    I've cheekily swapped a few long runs around to fit in a Marathon this Sunday, as you do :lol: It's a small local one, with all proceeds to a charity, that i really like and have always ran at least one version of it a year (it's held, as a 'boutique' in their words, version a few times during the year, with their main Marathon weekend event held in the Summer). I've won it the last 2 times I've ran it, so would like to try and make it a hattrick if i can, so it would be a shame to miss. I won't be running it flat out, I'm telling myself i'm limited to MP+10% at the minute, and will use it as a full distance long run. I ran it this time last year too, in the same 'handbrake on' mindset, and i think it really helped the endurance/mental side of the training plan. Looking forward to it.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Great parkrunning Jools and Cal. I'm with TR on 0 at the moment (does junior parkrun count?)

    Fortunately my scales have run out of battery and I've not bothered replacing them so I don't know how much weight I've put on. 

    2019 was definitely a year of 2 halves for me. First half I was motivated and did a good job of sticking to my plan for London. Mileage wasn't huge, averaging 55 mpw (most weeks around 60-70 miles but some low weeks in there too) but I really felt like I got the mix of sessions, recovery and long runs just right. Reading HM resulted in a PB of 70:50, although I went out much too fast and probably could've run a bit faster with better pacing. I recovered really slowly after Reading, much slower than in previous years, which has got me thinking about how I'll approach tune up HMs in the future. Come the London marathon I was confident I could break 2:30. It all went really well, pacing spot on and felt like I left everything out there but still finished strong. Managed 2:29:10, which was a PB by exactly 5 min.

    Post London I felt like I was pretty conservative coming back, taking things pretty easy and building back up gradually. In hindsight, I wasn't conservative enough. A couple of months down the track and I'd lost all motivation, had a couple of niggles and had put on well over a stone (about 8kg). Strangely enough I wasn't upset about it at all, in fact I was as happy as I'd been in a long time. I was getting heaps of sleep, eating well and feeling strong and healthy. I had more patience with my kids and had more time to spend with my wife. It's really got me thinking about how much I'll be prepared to do leading up to London this year. 

    Motivation picked up at the end of the year, with a few decent XC races and some fitness returning. Mileage was 1992 for the year, which is about the same as the previous year.
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