P&D Spring Marathon 2020

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Comments

  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    SQ - exciting stuff to be on a new to you plan.

    SBD - i have set up a 1/2 and 10m race as per the plan at 6 weeks and 4 weeks out.  I have another 1/2 and 2 x 10k (all in the next 4 or 5 weekends), not sure how ill approach those. However in order to run close to 2.50, i need to run sub 80, which probably needs sub 37 capability (although i am a diesel engine rather than a sports engine).
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Just seen muddyfunster, former resident on this thread, getting a shout out on this week’s Fast Running round up: https://www.fastrunning.com/events-and-races/weekend-round-ups/mccolgan-wins-in-nyc-xc-champs-are-crowned-weekend-roundup/28469
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Top racing Cal & SQ.
    Very light week for me with just a 3rd crack at Barnstaple parkrun since NYD double. Wasn't sure how it would go given NYE excesses & lots of driving (over 5 hrs Friday) but hoped the 2 days off would have freshened the legs. Pleased to report a further 30s improvement and my fastest 5K since last February. Happy to see progress & although conditions were definitely more favourable than last time out 3 weeks ago it felt a better run. 2M wu & over 3M cd made it a reasonable day but another zero today due to driving.
    Work resumes tomorrow & with it some semblance of a routine.
  • MadbeeMadbee ✭✭✭
    Hi guys. 

    Well done to racers, nice to 'meet' you Cal.

    Jools I've been keeping vaguely up to date with you on Strava, well done on the 5K improvements, not always easy when mostly marathon-focused.

    Realistically, I shall probably mostly lurk here, but I'm doing 55-70 for London aiming for 3:20ish with potential for goal creep!  I forgot to do week 1 because I can't count, but week 2 went really well.  I have evidentally blanked week 3 in the past as it looks thoroughly weird with 3 MLRs and not much else, but will enjoy mostly just plodding around.  Not looking forward to LT being in my life again though.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Madbee - great to have you here, even if mostly lurking. When you say you're hoping for goal creep, does that really mean that your 3:20 target involves some sandbagging? Enjoy the MLRs.

    Jools - Great parkrun, good to see things trending in the right direction.

    Cal - great work on the 10k PB, esp after the tough parkrun.

    Joe - What costume will we see this time, will it be allowable from the champs start and is it related to your 5 hour target? Maybe you could piggy-back Katie all the way around, while she "encouraged" you with a riding crop.

    SQ - Great work on the XC. Sounds a tough race. Good thing you had those long spikes.

    Good long runs from TR and SBD. SBD - I like your approach of not forcing the MP runs and using races for your upcoming MP runs. Makes things a lot more manageable. 

    XC for me yesterday. A touch under 6 miles, pretty hilly and rough but mud wasn't too bad. Pretty happy to get 5th. Was in touch of 3rd and 4th for about 2/3 of the way but on a big hill they pulled away from me and I couldn't respond. 6th was a long way back so I turned off a bit at the end. A good day out but only a 34 mile week - not good enough.
  • Cal - decided not to mess around with public transport and just ran there instead  :D Squerreys sounds like great fun, and congrats for Sundays result - fantastic running. Run Through do do great flapjacks.

    SQ - currently no X, and with parkrun China probably still a long way away, we might have a while to wait.. XC sounds like great fun, and congrats on such a high placing, very impressive. 

    SBD - I agree with TR, MP can be hard to hit so sounds like you did the right thing. Still good to bank 18 miles this early. 

    Jools - Sounds like things are coming back nicely, just keep the consistency up and you'll keep trending upwards.

    Nice to see you again Madbee! And remember - LT is life.

    Cracking result HA. Hard to push when you find yourself in no-mans land at the end there. Absolutely no idea re; costume at, it's just a pipe-dream at the moment. 

    Long, steady run Saturday morning over to Victoria Dock parkrun. Ended up 18 miles @ 7:15mm, but pretty sure I had a tailwind most of the way. Resisted the temptation to get caught up in running parkrun hard, but on one of the out and backs spotted a tiny girl who was absolutely flying.

    Caught up with her and asked her age (in the least creepy way possible), and what her PB was. Ended up pacing her for the 2nd half and offering some gentle encouragement. She ended up running 20:13 - she's just turned 11!!

    Swim on Saturday afternoon and 2.5 hours on the turbo trainer sunday morning followed by a 30 min run off the bike. Finally starting to feel not sick.

  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    edited January 6
    Great to see a faster parkrun back in there, Jools. Onwards and upwards from here. 
    Hi Madbee. Pop in as much as you can. Best of luck with the plan. 
    Super XC result, HA. 16 weeks to London starts today. Perfect time to start building mileage from here. 
    Good long run, Joe, and well paced. That is flying for an eleven year old! You’re in a good place 16 weeks out from London. 
    51.5M last week, so achieving the 50/week goal. Today was the first session of the plan: 40-50 mins easy. So 5.9M at 8:31 pace. Lower right back still a bit sore. Resumed weights this morning with single single deadlifts and Bulgarian split squats. Six reps, three sets. Lighter weights whilst I get back into them. Hoping the resumption of this will help with the back pain. 
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    SBD - I'm down for Farnborough as well (just hoping the trains are behaving) so it's definitely an option. Haven't done it before so no idea if it's a PB course or not, but it'll do for training I'm sure.
    Joe - blimey, that's impressive for such a young girl. Glad to see Katie hitting 23 minutes - I guess that means her feet are getting better then? (Fastest marathon dressed as a pipe - is that a thing?)

    Out for an easy 6 miles today - normally I rest on a Monday but since I didn't do a long run yesterday, I felt like running. I intended to go at recovery pace but it ended up being at the faster end of my easy pace - guess my legs are OK then! Only thing is there are so many Christmat trees littering the pavements it's like the sodding Grand National.

  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    TR...Class MP work. I like the diesel engine metaphor, i might steal that one :lol:

    Cal...That sounds a very muddy run, rather you than me. Top notch work in the 10k, awesome, huge congrats on the pb. Sub 50 is there for the taking.

    SQ...Brilliant running at the XC, seems like you had a class day out all round. Best of luck with the plan, it will be interesting to see how you fare with a bit of a shake up training wise.

    SBD...Just right, if your not feeling it no point flogging yourself, MP is a tricky concept. A very good, fast long run all the same.

    Jools...Mighty run at parkrun, congrats. I agree, routines are the way forward.

    Madee...Best of luck with London. LT work is erm...fun, i'd agree with you there :lol:

    HA...Class running at the XC, brilliant position, esp if you were that far ahead you could switch off a bit.

    Joe...20.13 is a brilliant 5k time for anyone, but its a completely savage time for an 11 year old, wow. Well done on getting your good deed done for the week early too, by pacing for her. That is a decent nick over 18 miles, tailwind or no tailwind.


    6 recovery miles on Saturday, was as much as of a taper as i was getting before Sundays Marathon.

    I told myself i would run the marathon with the handbrake on at around MP + 10%, and use it as a full length hard long run, rather than a flat out race effort. Pleased to report, very unlike me, i actually did this too :astonished::lol: I ran it slightly faster than MP+10 (6.25 m/miles), if i'm honest, it was more MP+5 (6.15m/miles) but i felt good the whole way round, comfortable would maybe be too strong word, but i certainly didn't have any issues at all, and ran even splits the whole way, feeling in control, which i'm more than happy about. Finished in 2.44.02, for 1st place and a new course record (saying nothing about the fact that it was only the 3rd time they had used the new course :wink::lol: ) so a good day all round. The 26 brought me to 93 miles for the week.

    The course was 9x2.8 mile laps, plus a bit at the start to make the distance. I wasn't sure how i would cope with the loops, but actually found they worked in my favour, they went by quickly and counting them off was a boost mentally. Not sure how the would have felt if i was struggling, or on the edge though.

    5 recovery miles this evening will do me for today, rather than the planned 5 and 5 am and pm miles. My legs aren't feeling too bad at all, more tired than sore or stiff, but rather safe than sorry.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    I think we can probably excuse you a 5M recovery run, hamo 😆. Absolutely fantastic running - you really are in great shape. Did the short laps enable a reasonable amount of support as well? The more I think about it, the more stellar a run it is. Look how far you have come in a year. A good advert for P&D style training!

    The Grand National comment did make me laugh, Cal. 
  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    SBD, i often use raced for the MP sessions. Have also used parkrun as the last 3 miles of effort too.

    Am very jealous reading all of the XC talk. I was supposed to run yesterday but came down with a cold / virus on New years day which knocked me for 6 and haven`t felt up to running until today. I just ticked over with a few social trail runs over Christmas finishing the year on 2555 miles. Hoping my enforced layoff will act as a good taper for Stubbington on Sunday.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Nice to see a bit of progress jools

    Nice one HA, 5th place is very nicely done.

    Good training there Joe, youre not much older than that young girl yourself.

    Cal - i put a Grand National fence out today too. You must be well placed for more pbs given such a good 10k.

    Hamo - wow, another fantastic race time even as a non race.

    Millsy - hope you are back to full beans by sunday.

    12m usual monday mlr in the usual monday mlr rain.
  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    SQ...it was quite a small race, so support was minimal and confined to around the aid station/car parking area in general. But you we passed the aid station less than every 20 mins, so you where never to far away from a friendly face or water/gels, which was nice.

    Millsy...That is a big year, well done. Hope you feel better soon, and best of luck for Sunday.

    TR...It wouldn't be a MLR if it wasn't pissing it down :lol: Nice work.


    While the legs aren't feeling too bad at all, tired more than anything, i'm not sure how much they would have appreciated a 10 with [email protected], that the plan called for today. So, I swapped Tuesdays with Thursdays runs and ran 6 recovery miles this morning.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Hamo - Superb win!
    Cal - congrats on the 10k PB.
    TR - Nice MP miles.
    SBD - Good idea to use races to run the MP miles. I'm considering the same for the 14 @ MP by booking a HM!
    Madbee - Also using the 55-70 plan, but only over 5 days a week rather than the 6 in the book.
    18 miles with 10 at MP on Saturday, MP came out at 7:06 average, so similar to other MP run from a couple of weeks ago, but more even this time, apart from 1 mile at 7:15 and another at 7:00. Backed that up with 12 miles on Sunday for 64 miles for the week.
    8 miles with strides this morning.
    Glad I'm not the only one struggling to hit pace on MP miles. I was hoping to run 6:50 ish for these, but coming out over 7:00! So no idea if I'll get myself in sub 3 shape or not.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Hope you are on the mend, Millsy.
    Wise to back off and rearrange, hamo.
    You love the rain really, TR. 
    Very good back to back days there, Steve.

    First session on the plan today: 50 minutes including 3 sets of 3, 2, 1 minutes. 1 minute rest in between reps and 2 minutes in between sets. Great to smash around and not worry about lap times etc. Watch had me between 7:46 and 4:35 pace  :D. 7:12 average pace for just over 7M. Lower back/hip a bit funny, almost like it is losing power/feeling. Will give it a few more days then make an appointment if necessary.
  • MadbeeMadbee ✭✭✭
    SQ, that doesn't sound like a P&D session, are you doing something else? :open_mouth: Hope the back/hip thing improves.

    SteveMac I struggled to hit MP when I was fast(er) - I feel like doing it 'in the wild' requires a bit of flexibility as you haven't got people to hang onto, perfectly flat roads, a tapered and rested body etc - I tend to set a 10-15 second-ish range and try to keep in that for MP miles rather than pushing for an exact pace.  Seems to take the pressure off a bit and I find it easier to get in the right zone.  

    Hamo, recovery always a good call.  There's no sense in smashing yourself through a sub-par session for the sake of it, hope you feel more sparky again on Thursday.

    TR, there's something about the attrition required for those soggy (and usually windy in previous years) MLRs that I credit with being able to hang on when it gets tough in a marathon. Well stuck.

    Millsy, hopefully the enforced rest will give you a bit extra for Sunday, hope you're fully better soon too.

    Cal, a bit of steeplechasing on your plan perhaps?  I'm sure leaping trees could replace strides on some runs!

    Joe, amazing time for a youngster.  Great pacing from you too.  I got outkicked at a similar pace by an 11 year old boy in Middlesbrough a couple of years ago, and it's a cross between 'wtf why am I being beaten by a kid?' and total admiration for the talent that is there.   I always hope these kids keep being encouraged in a way that makes running fun for them, I think things have improved for juniors loads in the last few years, it's so important to keep that love for physical activity.

    HA I think XC is worth extra miles.  Great placing  :) In answer to your question, I don't think I'm sandbagging at the moment, as I have faded quite badly in the last couple of marathons - just not had the stamina I had before Mini Mad came along, but I'm hoping that sticking to the plan and actually doing the hard sessions this time will get me back closer to 3:15 again.  

    4 @ LT done.  I can confirm that Joe is wrong, and LT is not in fact life, but more of a near-death experience, only without the bright light.  Some reasonably consistent miles in the bag though, all 4 between 6:50 and 7:00, and goodness knows how many interminable laps of a smallish park.  No idea why I decided to just keep running round and round rather than taking off somewhere more interesting for the last 3, but I expect I will be oddly satisfied when I look at the strava map.  Looking forward to a nice easy MLR tomorrow :smile:


  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Haha Madbee, you are right. I have done P&D for the last few years, but am a bit more time restricted this spring, so thought I would try a different programme on Runner's World. It is the sub-3, Mission/Tom Craggs plan. Looks a fun alternative and will be a genuine challenge to see if I can break 3 hours on about 50M//week. 

    Well done on the LT, never easy. I'd agree that laps can help, especially in this wind. I also like you approach to MP running. 
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    Glad to see everyones is into the swing of Spring Marathon training and banging out the miles!
    I've just put the finishing touches to my plan today - all those LT and MP runs on the same page made me feel quite unwell again!
    I've had a cold since last week so taking things fairly easy as I have Country to Capital (43mi) Ultra this Saturday - will dive head first into marathon training next week
    Madbee: great to see you here again. That first LT run is always tough. Good luck with the MLR
    SQ: nice session - hope the back/hip isn't anything too serious
    Steve: I find the MP paces tend to come easier towards the end of the plan rather than early January so I'm sure you will be fine
    Millsy: sounds like you and I have had something similar. Hope it fully clears soon!
    Hamo: 1st place course record and all at MP+10% - that's like the perfect run, top results with minimum effort!
    Cal: +1 for the Grand National comment :)
    Joe: nice long run and well done on not being creepy to an 11 yo!!
    TR: glad to see you are still Mr Consistency
    HA: superb XC result and nice that you weren't hanging on at the end - sounded very similar to my race a couple of weeks ago were I could enjoy the finish as 4th was out of reach and 6th was well behind
    Jools: 30s is a good improvement in 5k time - glad its going the right way. Like you I'm looking forward to the return of routine although I guess for you that means racing at least 3 times a weekend!
    Sorry if I've missed anything important but haven't fully read back from this page
    Nearly forgot - I find out on Thursday if I have a place in this year's UTMB. Fingers crossed
  • Cracking performance at the weekend Hamo, super impressive. If HA isn't careful you'll be giving him a real run for his money in London..

    Steve - definitely difficult to hit marathon pace, especially at the start of the plan, in the dark, on open roads. Going by effort is definitely the way forward. I remember one year, at the start of a plan, I did 3 x 1 mile with those 1 miles ending up slower than my marathon pace at the end of the plan! And I felt like I was sprinting them.

    Nice LT madbee, I prefer a loop as well, makes things much easier, even if it is a bit dull.

    Good luck this weekend AWC!

    4 miles easy, 4 miles steady (6:40mm) on the way to work this morning. Bike session tonight (4 x 8 mins).
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited January 7
    Hamo - very wise, the LT run would have been madness.

    Steve - i agree, its the effort that counts

    SQ - sounds like you need a bit of physio.  I like reps for time too esp 3min.

    Mad - those LT runs are tough going on the few ive done. Its effectively 4 or 5m balls to the wall.

    Fingers crossed AWC

    Re the rainy runs,  years of run and bike has led me to realise that whilst it often seems to rain a lot it doesnt actually coincide with bike or run time that often......although i have got wet a lot recently so its made me wonder, but at least its been mild. But i agree with the mental toughening too......Daley Thompson trained twice on Christmas day, as he thought he was gaining an edge on his rivals as they'd train once at best in his opinion......a "Daley" is any workout when you are out there putting it in when others wouldnt be......on boxing day i did a Daley, with 4m LT in a 10m n a filthy wet day, its logged in my mind for race day.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    8m easy today (only light rain).
  • Long time no post, apologies. I’ve been reading, thanks for the well wishes before Xmas.

    A quick well done to the racers, Cal (PB 😀), Hamo, (the win), SQ and HA (the
    mud), Jools (Parkrun is a race) and TR (that MP run was as good as a race in my book). Apologies to anyone I’ve missed.

    Good to see MP/LT being racked up Steve, Madbee.  sorry you missed the Xmas day marathon Joe (I got my NYD ultra in). Welcome Rob, decent paced LR SBD, hope you can get over the lurgy/lethargy Millsy and RSR respectively.

    AWC - good luck in the ballot and at C2C - I’m in both as well.

    TR - agree with all those assessments, especially the rain frequency, I think the soakings are just more memorable.
  • At the beginning of December we were given the news that mums cancer meant she had “months” left.  I’m not sure what to add other than ticking off the sessions and reading what people are up to provides some distraction so please keep it up.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited January 7
    Sorry to hear that Macca. Tough times
    'Only' 83 races last year after doing over 100 for the previous 3 AWC. Good luck at C-C. Not sure what the field is like but I'm betting you'll be Top10 at least.
    Awesome win/CR in your training marathon Hamo :D 
    Nicely done getting that LT run D&Dd Madbee & good to have you back on board.
    Bet the easy 8s feel lovely after all the MLRs & hard sessions you've been banging out TR.
    After a light couple of weeks (35 & 28) over the holiday period I was determined to properly get going this week. Yesterday was 8M with 8x200m efforts to finish. The whole run was considerably faster than before the break & the strides were far quicker :) I followed that up with a really big day for me with a double 7.xx commute & a lunchtime TM session. I was late setting out this morning so the commute in was far quicker than I'd usually run it especially with a lunchtime workout planned. Didn't feel hard though in spite of being (equal) 2nd quickest of 19 runs over the last 3 years on that route so fitness must be coming back. The lunchtime session was [email protected], [email protected]:30 off [email protected], [email protected] cd. The commute home felt properly hard despite being almost a minute a mile slower than the morning's jaunt but that's 28M done already this week.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited January 7
    Sorry to hear that Macca, life is tough at times.

    Jools - defo, im trying to make sure i keep a few shorter runs in at the mo. Good that you are seeing some progression.
  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    Macca, very sorry to hear about your mum. Good to see you get out there to clear your head. 

    Congrats Hamo on a great win in a great time. That’s an encouraging step towards London. 

    Cal - well done on the PB, the hard work seems to be paying off. 

    On hols in Japan since last week and the weather could not be more different. went from one of Sydney’s hottest days ever to snow and wind in Sapporo, over 50C swing in temp. Got in a couple of outdoor runs in amazing conditions but retreated to the TM this week. Going to be boring even with netflix but its the only way I’ll get out my sessions (have the [email protected] coming up...). One thing I’ve discovered is the cold here makes me want to pee every 30 mins whereas I never need to at home. Definitely a splash and dash pitstop to make sure I don’t get frostbite in the wrong area!
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    I'm sorry to hear about your mum, Macca. Running is indeed a good way to clear your head, but I know I didn't get a lot of running done the year my parents died (4 months apart, the inconsiderate buggers!) so just do what you can and make the most of your time with her.

    John - yes that does happen, and I'm not sure why. Maybe we sweat less so there's more liquid to get rid of?

    hamo, good job (and excellent restraint) on your loopy marathon. I don't much like laps for anything longer than a 10K. There's a guy in our club (mine and Joe's) who did that Centurion 100 mile track race last year - I can't even imagine. 5K on a track is torture enough. :D

    Steve and co - yeah, not just you. MP feels unfeasibly fast to me now. I guess knocking 13 minutes off my PB in Yorkshire is to blame - MP has gone from 9:30s to 9s in one go and it's only been a couple of years since that was my HMP/LT pace. Given my easy pace can be as high as 11s on a bad day, it feels bloody quick. (Don't get me started on LT runs - I've had a few fails on those).
    I'm not sure why racing feels so much easier than training. If you asked me to run 10K at the pace I did on Sunday, I wouldn't be able to. Perhaps we really are herd animals.

    Nice job, Jooligan. I admit I don't do much in the way of intervals - I tend to use parkrun as speedwork.

    AWC - good luck with UTMB! As for me, I was set to run yesterday as I have a Sky engineer booked for today (and they can come any time from 8am - you won't know until they phone) but my throat felt a bit scratchy and I realised I'd already run four days on the trot so I should probably rest.I'm almost ashamed to say I did nothing (my steps count for the day was in the hundreds) but that does seem to be the best course of action when my immune system is giving me the side eye.
    Still, it did mean I had to get up at arse o'clock to fit in my MLR today. I was out not long after 5. Did 14 miles easy and felt pretty strong throughout. Lots left in the tank.
    Unfortunately, I do seem to have gained a few pounds in the Christmas aftermath - I acquired a lot of goodies and have been working my way through them, which wouldn't hurt too much normally but I had a cut-back week last week due to the race and the NYD parkrun double and only did 35 miles total.
    I also need to get back on top of my core work. Lower back and QL (primarily the left one) are the most grumbly bits of me when I do longer runs. I've been doing my glute drills but I need to start planking again. Ugh.



  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Joe - That 11 year old is fast!! Nice to hear you are not feeling sick.
    John - Incredible difference in temperature!!
    Macca - Sorry for your news.
    AWC - Good luck at C2C.
    Jools - Starting to pick up the miles nicely.
    5 mile run commute today after a kettle bell workout at home. 5 mile run commute after work later.
  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    Steve...Good MP work, nice consistency. I'd agree with Joe, don't live and die by the MP miles at the start of the plan, they are hard to hit on your own and with big miles in your legs.

    SQ...Nice reps. Hope your back improves and you keep enjoying the plan.

    Madbee...Brilliant LT miles, consistency is key with them.

    AWC...Enjoy and all the best for Saturday. I'll keep everything crossed for you for the UTMB, best of luck.

    Joe...Not so sure about that. Good efforts in the commute.

    TR...Balls to the wall describes them perfectly. Nice easy running, and excellent 'Daley' (i like that) on boxing day. It will definitely pay dividends on race day for you.

    Macca...I'm really sorry to hear that, awful news. 

    Jools...The easier week or two has done you the world of good, excellent sessions.

    John...Have a lovely holiday. Best of luck avoiding the frostbite, that'd be nasty :lol:

    Cal...No way i could do a 100 mile track race, i'd go off my head, fair play to him. Rest day has done you good too, class MLR.


    14M MLR for me too this morning, easy enough pace and the legs felt grand. Nice start to the day.
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    Macca: really sorry to hear about your Mum but glad running & this thread provides a welcome distraction. Looking forward to catching up with you properly on Saturday. We'll try and get a photo for the thread! Good luck for the UTMB lottery.
    TR: I also find I don't hit the rain that often despite the torrential forecasts at the minute. Down South it doesn't rain that much and when it does it doesn't last long. I've noticed a huge difference since moving from Northern Ireland 16 years ago where it never seems to stop as I'm sure Hamo can testify to :)
    Hamo: good sign that the legs after feeling good so soon after the marathon victory
    Jools: no chance of top 10 unfortunately - I'd do well to make top 30 I think. This race always has a lot of the top ultra runners in it, I guess becuase its the first proper one of the new year down south so people are keen to get out on what is a relatively easy, flat course
    John: extremes of running there. Good luck with the [email protected]
    Cal: nice sign when there's plenty in the tank after a 14MLR. Good luck with strength work - I find it makes a difference to my overall fitness level and definitely helps stay clear of injury
    Run commute last night and this morning. Cold hasn't completely gone but almost so just a few short recoveries now before Saturday
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