P&D Spring Marathon 2020

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  • Enjoy York, Joe - I didn't make the parkrun when I did the marathon there but I recommend refuelling at Betty's Tea Rooms. Several of the Chasers are off to East Grinstead, the fools. I was sensible and did that one in the summer when it was dry.
    I am looking forward to watching Steph and the Bekele/Kipchoge duel at London - one advantage to never getting a bloody place, I suppose!

    Is anyone else doing Manchester? They've just released the new course and it looks very different to previous years. The quiet Carrington section has gone, thankfully, and the finish is no longer down that endless road.

    Rough plan for today was go out early for a recovery run (6 miles), have breakfast, then go to the gym. What actually happened was it was raining heavily so I delayed my run until after 9 and then couldn't be arsed with the gym. Feel quite tired.
  • Good news about KL, Joe. You should go well at York: cracking course & decent company even at your top end. Look forward to the full blog post ;)
    I've gone soft SQ - I'm over 50 now so a lie-in on Sunday it is :)
    Speedway targets: A: Sub40 (almost certainly too ambitious), B: 40:xx, C: Run the whole thing without GI interruption :p & beat Telford :D 
    AWC wise move resting that leg - your plenty fit enough obviously. TRunch is just a word I made up. You've probably seen Runch used to describe the run you do in yr lunch break. I add the T when I'm doing a treadmill run. I find steady state treadmill runs so monotonous I have to inject a bit of interest by changing the pace periodically. I like the progressive runs but they can get very hard very quickly. When I want the distance without pushing myself too much I find that pyramid useful as it peaks at 7:30s & has a natural cool down built in.
    Legs were feeling the 45M over 3 days so just an easy 5M w8x100m stride-lites this morning to open the legs out without taxing the engine too much.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited January 2020
    Good news then AWC, gently does it.

    Jools - hope the 10k refects yr recent efforts.

    Well done on the mlr Hamo, its about to get  cold here too.

    Joe - Good that katie is running again.

    I dont believe in the folks at the top end of endurance sports, so as AWC said, the main race is amongst the threaders at vlm.

    8m easy inc strides today, hopefully ill get the 1st 20 of the campaign in tomorrow.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    First 20 of the campaign today, did it in a p and d 20% and 10% stylie.

    82 for the week 
  • Well done, TR - that's a big week.

    A near disaster today! I travelled up to Gunpowder in Essex (it's a long tube ride, a few stops on the train and then a 2 mile job - a bit of a mission) as I wanted a flattish hard surface one, but when I got to the park, the puddles on the paths were covered in ice. This didn't look promising, and when the RD arrived (I was early), the parkrun got cancelled.
    The next nearest was Roding Valley, another I've not done, though I've been avoiding it as it's very muddy. However, there was no chance of me making anywhere else. I managed to blag a lift with some other parkrunners and we made it to Roding with a minute or two to spare.
    The mud was indeed spectacular, and unfortunately I was in my Zoom Flys, so I just took it easy, walked the worst bits and came in with a new personal worst of 32:29. But, at least it was a parkrun ticked off, rather than no run at all!
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Cal - well done to the folks that gave you a lift. Avoiding icy patches where all the wet lanes and paths have frozen will be an issue this week esp in the dark.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    edited January 2020
    You are not wrong there, TR.
    Went out at 5:30 (well, 5:33 if we're splitting hairs) and stuck to well-lit main roads until it started getting lighter (which happened around 10 miles). There were a lot of slippery spots - standard pavement slabs were fine, brick was fine, some tarmac was OK and some was very slippery, and then there were the metal drain covers and patches of frosty leaf mulch to avoid. My intention had been to do 18 with some at MP, but I ended up going very slowly indeed. To make up for that I threw in a mile's worth of hill sprints between 14 and 15, which was the only part of the run I enjoyed.
    Eh well, it's done. I'd rather do a slow run than fall and break something six weeks out from Tokyo. I'll be able to work my speed next weekend at Farnborough half.
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    CJ: nice run that early in the frost. Sensible to take it easy with Tokyo so close now.
    Jools: I do like trying to figure out your phrases!
    TR: good mileage so early in January - Mr Consistency as usual. You seem to have hit a real sweet spot with training that doesn't completly pulverise your body but which is giving you great results
    Went out for 10 miles yesterday up and down all my local hills and the tibia felt ok - still a bit of discomfort post run from the bruising but its not affecting my running form so I think I'll just crack on with with first week of P&D. First LT run on Wednesday - lovely! (I'm not strictly following the plan so sessions are lossely based on P&D)
  • AWC...Just right leaving it for another day, as evidenced in your 10 miler, nice work. Enjoy Wednesday :lol:

    Joe...Hope you both enjoyed York, good news about Katie too, glad to hear.

    Jools...Nice strides.

    TR...Same, nice strides. Big week too, you really are building well.

    Cal...Well done on getting a parkrun of any kind done, nice of those people to give you a lift. Good LR, and hill work too. Right decision to leave the faster stuff until the chance of breaking your neck decreases :lol:


    7 mile recovery on Saturday morning, and a 20 mile LR on Sunday brought me to 92 for the week. My long run pleasingly resembles the p&d MP+20 progressing to +10, but if i'm honest that's not how i planned to run it. But it was absolutely freezing (-4oC) so the longer i ran, the colder i got, so the faster i went to get home and warm quicker :flushed::lol: My usual recovery run of junior parkrun was called off due to the ice too.

    Double 6's as recovery runs this morning and evening is the plan today.
  • AWC - Good to hear you are back.
    Cal - Bit of a nightmare with parkrun, but well done.
    TR - Nice week and first 20!
    Like TR, first 20 of the plan for me too (well 21!)! Started really slow due to the frost and warmed up nicely, ended up going from 9:30s for the first few miles and ended up on the last few with sub 8:00s which was nice, 8:45 average overall, but HR nice and easy and felt good for my first 20 miler since May 2018!! 11 miler on Sunday to finish with 68 miles for the week.
  • Hamo - minus 40 - blimey that must've been cold. 

    Well done on a pair of 20's Steve and TR. 

    Sounds like a bit of drama Cal. Good on them to give you a lift. I've done Roding before - like you said, definitely not a zoom fly course!

    I was a bit crap on Saturday. Gave York parkrun a good go but ended up with 18:02 (after a 17:42 on NYD). Can't quite work out what happened but never really got properly going. 
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Some good LRs going around. 

    Wouldn't stress too much Joe. Trust the process and all that garbage.

    My rib pain has proved to be worse than first thought. I took the weekend off and went out this morning, thinking I'd start easy and maybe build up to some sort of progression. Didn't really consider that I might struggle. Only managed about 5 miles and would've been shorter and packed it in after about 4 if I didn't need to get back to the office. Pain was getting worse and pace was slowing. It's not often I run slower than 8min/mile when I'm not running with someone else.  It's not terribly sore but makes running feel clunky and not much fun.
  • You have gone soft, Jooligan! 

    Well done on the 20 and big week, TR. 

    Good to see the parkrun spirit in action there, Cal. Excellent determination on your behalf!

    Hope it's easing a little now, AWC. LT is something to look forward to!

    Hamo - another outrageous long run and week!

    Great to see a first 20, Steve. 

    Hard luck on the parkrun, Joe. It ebbs and flows. Hope you had a good trip nonetheless. York is a lovely place. 

    Ouch, HA. Do you need to get an X ray?


    Perfect conditions for the Linda Franks 5M yesterday morning. About 3C and very little wind. This time last year was my highest ever WAVA for a race with a time of 28:24, so it definitely has the potential to be a quick course. I was happy to run 29:19. I expected to see a 'far too fast' 5:3x first mile, so was slightly worried to see 5:56 for the effort level. Nonetheless, managed to maintain this pace and finish strongly with a 5:40. The end is great with a 200m straight on a marginal downhill. Seemed to lead a pack for three miles and then only partially benefit when a couple overtook me. Still, to run sub 6m/m (un)comfortably over 5M puts me in a reasonable place. This is off 50M/week versus 80 of last year and it felt like my right hip glute didn't have access to full power, as a result of the back. Weirdly, it hurts at slower paces but not at full throttle. Lovely to chat with spoons during a warm up and brief warm down. Lots of club mates there and really well organised as ever. 

    Some single leg stuff in the gym then 50 minutes recovery at 8:40 pace this morning. 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited January 2020
    Awc - sounds like you are on the mend. Im doing a lot of easy miles still, just the odd LT, mp run etc but i had the stubby 10k and have chichester and worthing soon, and the races will give me a training boost anyway.

    Hamo - good heat production, rhe 10% section defo produces a vut of steam.

    Stevie - you obviously coped well, guven sundays run.

    HA - those ribs are going to take time, i hurt mine surfing before so i know how it can hurt. It makes life uncomfoetable for a while.

    SQ - ooh nice, decent leg speed still, esp given tbe reduced training snd back issue. Hopefully it will have helped your back a bit, i had a couple of rsces last yr that helped me similarly, they both had some fast downhills.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Oh yes........15m tonight, blimming cold, did 12 and then forced out "1 more" 3 times.
  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    Wow, so much to catch up on that I'm sure I'll miss out loads.

    Well done to TR and Millsy on fast 10ks, great way to kick off the year. I find the distance hard to get right but sounds like you both paced it perfectly.

    Great run SQ, encouraging sign that your lower mileage is paying off. Hope your back eases off, it's no fun when you're having to fit in runs with a niggle.

    AWC - good to hear you've recovered well, enjoy the LT.

    Steve - great mileage and consistency, I reckon all the hard work from last year is going to pay off in Manchester.

    HA77 - bad luck with the ribs, just as you were starting to build up.

    FBT - welcome back!

    Elsewhere I see some really good running from Hamo, Cal, Jools, Joe and Spoons.

    Got back from the cold of Japan, via a few days in Taipei. I had to do about 90km of TM running whilst at a ski resort, including a mental 30k with [email protected] Almost lost the will to live and so tough to keep going but had no choice. Happy to get it done and back outside in Taipei for [email protected], which came out around 6:15 pace. Since I got back though have had a hammy niggle so took a couple of days off (and back onto the TM for more punishment). Looks like I'll also have to defer Berlin this year as I have a family trip I'm not allowed to miss (my daughter has a dance comp in Caloundra - HA77 may know how unexciting this will be compared to Berlin!). May give Gold Coast a bash instead in early July, it's usually the most competitive marathon in Aus.

    Weather-wise it's gone from one extreme to another. Fortunately there has been some rain over the weekend to give some respite to the bushfires, however it brought some crazy hailstorms and gales which toppled trees, blew off roofs and smashed cars into writeoffs. Lots of fundraising running going on which is a nice way of helping out in a meaningful way.
  • Steve...Nice progressive long run at the end of a big week, good work.

    Joe...Sometimes it just doesn't happen, but a 18.0x 5k is not to be sniffed at, well done.

    HA...Not good, hope it settles for you quickly, running is meant to be fun after all.

    SQ...Excellent work at the 5 miler, really well done. Super time, not even considering your reduced mileage.

    TR...Brilliant work getting the MLR done. I use the same 'just 1 more mile' to trick myself too.

    John...Class running on the treadmill, no way could i do a long run with 15k at MP on one, actually i couldn't do any long runs on them :lol: Hope the hamstring improves, bad luck with Berlin, but the kids come 1st, and rightly so.


    10 mile with 5 at LT pace this morning. More than pleased with an average of 5.33 over the 5 miles (5.26, 5.37, 5.37, 5.32, 5.32 min/miles), was hard work but i always felt in control, and was never begging for it to end, as usually happens :lol: Worst part was the cool down when i just wanted to get home if i'm honest. 5 mile recovery is the plan for this evening. 
  • Glad the leg's improving, AWC.

    HA, not so good on the ribs. Not much you can do about that but take it a bit easier. (I wish my slow pace was 8...that's more like my 5K pace! :D )

    Nice double, hamo. The only time I've done doubles is when I've had a race in the evening. Certainly not easy this time of year.

    TR, well done for toughing that out. I know the "just one more" thing well.

    Good job SQ - I've had issues that feel better going faster - I think in my case it's that my mechanics improve with speed, so that may apply (though, if you can run sub-6s then I doubt there's much wrong with your mechanics).

    Joe, well, you got your letter Y at least. I've had more than a few runs where I felt like I couldn't get going - that Victoria Park 10K I did before Christmas was one, but then I smashed my PB first week of January. Sometimes there's no good reason why we run well one day and less well another, it just happens. It could be a lot worse - I was over 3:smile: minutes at Roding Valley. :s

    John, that's got to be a tough adjustment. I hope they get on top of those fires, it's awful seeing the devastation.

    hamo, well done on the LT. I felt the same about the cool-down on my last LT run - I just wanted to stop at that point.

    After a rest/gym day yesterday, I waited until nearly 10 to go out to let the frost melt. Got a decent 8 miler in - legs felt heavy but pace was OK (average 10:18, so standard easy rather than uber slow, as I tend to do when it's dark). This will be an easier week as I have Farnham on Sunday.

  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    John - Nice work on the 30km treadmill effort. That's something else. Great effort to keep up the training on holiday. I find volunteering for dance rehearsal taxi service is a good way of fitting in a run and scoring points with the boss. I'm sure it won't make up for missing Berlin though. I'll be over in Oz July/August so considering doing Gold Coast Half. Last time I ran it was 24 years ago (I think).

    SQ - Solid race considering that hip is still not 100%. Agree with John, I've had problems that are better when running hard, almost like everything is switched on.

    Nice LT Hamo, MLR TR and 8 miler Cal.

    Decided to keep up the running rather than resting completely, just keeping it short and easy. I don't feel like it makes the rib pain any better or worse. Just 5km at lunch and probably something similar tonight.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    edited January 2020

    TR, Cal & HA - I’d agree about the fast stuff and back pain. I mentioned to spoons during the warm down that perhaps the greater muscle recruitment of fast running might help. There was a video of the finish line - still plenty dubious about my mechanics I suspect!

    Well done for the 15M, TR. 

    Cheers, John. I get really upset when running suddenly isn’t as much of a pleasure as it usually is. Incredible treadmill running from you! Did you cover up the time? I couldn’t cope with the mental torture of seeing it tick by for that long! Japan looks great, I would love to go one day. 

    Great LT, hamo, especially first thing on a cold morning. Impressive. 

    Wise to get out when it’s a bit less slippery, Cal.

    If it’s not making things worse, wise to keep running, HA. Retaining some movement almost always helps. 

    Solid run for this week’s long ‘un: 1h50 steady, resulting in 15M at 7:20 pace. In two weeks I’ll do a long run that P&D would actually classify as such! Beautiful day for it around quiet lanes. 6-7 effort level, didn’t have much else to offer, with legs fatigued from Sunday’s race and yesterday’s gym. Back yoga this morning and more ibu gel pre run resulted in little back pain, but certainly no lateral mobility at the moment. Thank you for all the thoughts and advice on this one. 

  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited January 2020
    Cal I was luckier than you as my choice of parkrun was one of the few to go ahead locally - even though the car park was a sheet of black ice!!
    HA sounds like a cracked rib. I've run through that before - no fun but perfectly possible.
    SQ decent turnout at LF5
    Joe Sorry to hear of Katie's foot woes & take care of yourself too. You've been smashing the training again so maybe that 18:02 is a warning to ease up on the intensity.
    I had an underwhelming weekend with a 20:36 (ice affected parkrun) up in the S Wales valleys then a 41:08 at Speedway 10K in perfect conditions for 164th of 183 finishers. 81% of the top 100 got a PB including an MV40 who cruised to 2nd place at Merthyr in 18:54 halfway through his [email protected]:37 LR who managed a 32:45!! Least I achieved my C target: no toilet debacle & considerably quicker than Telford. Both runs my HR failed to average more than 90% of Max so it's time for some lower intensity this week. [email protected]:06 yesterday then [email protected]:50 first thing & [email protected]:54 at lunch.

  • Good effort, Jools, and well recognised on the need for an easier week. Speedway sounds great. I have heard similar stats of % of runners gaining PBS for a marathon. But as everyone will have run a 10k before, and plenty of marathoners are first timers, this is really impressive. When is the summer version?
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited January 2020
    Johnoz - youve taken a weather beating lately.

    Well done on the LT Hamo, it was way too icy in the lanes i run to and from work for me to LT today.

    Thats a tasty long run SQ, esp after yr race sunday.

    10m easy, as my post to Hamo, the lanes i run to and from work are still wet from all the rain, and so have been very icy scuppering my LT, im not going to cry over the odd missed workout, i did a 10k last weekend and have a 10k and 1/2 in the next few weeks, so theres plentt of hard running on the menu.
  • Blimey, Jooligan, that sounds like a very fast 10K - I'd probably have been last!
    TR - yes, I've not really done any speed work either, but with a half this weekend I'm not going to worry about it.

    Early 12 miles today. Not as cold out - a bit misty which was more like a very fine drizzle, but the main thing, no frost. Early miles were slow but I sped up the minute it started to get light. It didn't feel faster, it just was.
    I mostly ran on streets and avoided the one path on the common that is always full of little trip dogs, but then nearly tripped over a fox that darted out of a driveway while chasing another fox. I think I startled him as much as he startled me.

  • Cal...Nice 8 miler. Is Farnham a 10k?

    Ha...Hope the double 5ks where without incident.

    SQ...good long run, how are you feeling about the new plan compared to the standard p&d?

    Jools...That is a quick race, wow. Good effort over the weekend, and fair play recognising when it's time to cut the intensity for a bit.

    TR...you're just right, no point breaking your neck at this or any stage of the plan :lol: Its been very mild here this last few days, so hopefully you'll get the same weather soon. Nice work still getting out and getting 10 mile done.


    15M MLR was a real struggle this morning. I was tired, both mentally and physically when i woke up, so knew i was in for a fight with myself. I hoped a few miles in i would loosen up, but no, it never got much better, but i dug in and got it done, and if i'm honest, on reflection, i ran it at a good nick (6.47 min miles avg... i never looked at my watch throughout the run at all so as not to give myself any excuses, or i woulda maybe eased off a bit in hindsight), so a pleasing, if not hard work of a morning. I used TR's 'one more mile', and ran an out and back, so the further i ran the further i had to run home trick, which worked well.


    Bring on tomorrows recovery runs :lol:
  • It's not Farnham, I'm an idiot - it's Farnborough. It's a half.
    Well done on the 15, hamo - those MLRs can be tough midweek.
  • Hamo - Quality LT and MLR.
    John - Hope the weather gets back to normal for you. Quality TM run though!!
    Cal - Nice 8 miler.
    TR - Nice MLR too.
    SQ - Quality 5 miler.
    Jools - That was certainly a fast race.
    11 with 6 at LT for me on Tuesday, was frosty out and not the best running conditions as couldn't get much grip at times, but cracked out 6:26/6:41/6:59 (was tempted to bin it off at this point), then decided to run in the road rather than the pavement, as hardly any traffic for 6:30/6:33/6:38.
    6 mile recovery today with kettlebell workout. 4 miles planned for this evening.
    The OH has fractured her arm in a trip while out on a run too! So that's not good news!
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    Steve: ah not good news on the OH. Hope it isn't too serious. I do the running on the road thing too and it normally helps. Nice splits
    Hamo: nice midweek MLR
    TR: sensible re the LT runs.They're hard enough on a decent surface
    Jools: you really are statto - easily the one who gets the most KPIs into a post :) Nice progress from Telford
    HA: thats frustrating re the ribs but sensible to take it easy. Running hard and breathing hard must be really difficult/uncomfortable
    First LT run of the training plan today and you can tell I've not done one for months! Anyway its done and that's all there is to say about it. At least next week is 4mi again.
    Probably not helped by 3 hill runs the last 3 days 10mi/7mi/7mi with 2,500ft of vertical gain. I suspect all this hill training for Lakeland 100 will impact on these speed sessions but we'll see how its going after a few weeks when the legs have caught up a bit.
  • AWC KPI? Well done on getting an LT run in after all those hills.
    Nice pace improvement from the change of surface Steve
    Cal last was 47 minutes! Decent midweek MLR banked.
    Late morning meant my 10K commute was @7:40 pace then did a similarly paced 5M along the canal at lunch. About to set off for a considerably slower 10K return :wink:
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