Shades Marathon Training

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  • Rob - sounds like good news, although not for the drink prices!
    Shades - Nice running at 5am. It is still quite warm in the mornings.
    Cal - It's all relative though, I always look to the ones running 17 mins and think I couldn't do that! Strange that 19:10 felt OK, yet 18:40 feels tough, yet both look so close together!
    11 miles this morning.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rob-Good news you're in better shape,pity your wallet isn't after those drinks.
    8 miles after work today felt really tough compared to yesterday,got it done though.
    Collected our trophies from Sunday and indeed we get free entry to next years race so finally have something to show.

  • Steve, 30 seconds is a lot over 5K. (That's why I was so gobsmacked to take 30 secs off my PB when I ran at Beckenham).
  • 10 miles this morning. Didn't make it out until nearly 7 so I had to dodge a lot of school kids. Joy.
    Off for a massage later. Unfortunately my usual masseur literally went on holiday  yesterday so I have someone new. I'd wait but with all my nigglesome bits and a race on Sunday, I rather need it now.
  • Cal - Yeah tbh it is! 10 seconds a mile give or take!
    Followed up yesterdays 11 miles with 10 today, was meant to be 9, but added on another mile.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - carrying 2 litres + other stuff is quite a lot to carry, excuse accepted ;) 

    Glad you've recovered now as next marathon tomorrow!   These midweek marathons always confuse me.

    Ian - that's a great prize.  Hope those trophies are proudly on display for both of you.

    Cal - it's getting so dark in the mornings too.   Pesky kids I'm back to walking with them on Pilates mornings. :# 

    Steve - still knocking out the miles :) 

    Circuits for me this morning followed by upper body session in the gym.    Our circuits was mostly boxing circuits, which was really good, he was trialling a new routine with us before launching it with his other class.  My upper arms were already tired before hitting the gym and I struggled a bit on a couple of the exercises, I was really feeling the burn.   I'm having to type this with my  elbows on the desk as I don't have the energy to lift my arms now :'( 

    I've lost another pound today, so 2 pounds in a week which is OK but instructor is going to check my body fat etc next week just to make sure what I'm losing is only fat.   I can feel that my metabolism is ramping up with this higher protein diet and the gym work so he may up my calorie allowance to 2500.   I was ravenous after the gym, although I'd had breakfast before circuits, so just polished off breakfast number two which didn't touch the sides.  :)     
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Call-I had the same with the kids yesterday.
    Shades-Great that its 2lbs in a week,that's a good amount and not too much.
    Managed to finish early today with being on holiday tomorrow so going to watch the cycling a bit.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yes, they certainly come around.  Looking ahead to October/November, I've got quite a lot booked after Berlin too...hopefully not too many!  I'm going to try and keep my mileage up in the week, although I often say that but I just can't maintain the higher mileage due to tiredness.  Even if I can get an 8-10-miler in during the week that would be something, but I'll have to see.

    I was tempted with a short run this morning which I often do the day before a marathon, but I just decided against it today as wasn't really feeling like it would perk me up.  I am still quite tired from City to Sea, so a rest day is no problem really.  The course tomorrow is on crushed stone, and they say road shoes are fine.  I usually wear quite lightweight shoes for road marathons, but I wonder if I may need my more cushioned training shoes for tomorrow - I suppose it depends on how compact this crushed stone is.  I'm taking both pairs and I'll decide when I'm there.  If it's too loose I'll just wear my training shoes.

    I was at Aldi yesterday and they had some porridge pots that you just add hot water to.  Possibly one may not be quite enough but I've got a couple for tomorrow AM, and I tried one this morning and it was really nice (mine had some golden syrup in).  When staying over the night before a race, I usually take an oat pot that I prepare myself, and a cool bag to keep it cool over the night, but these Aldi pots seemed good.  I've put some sultanas in a small pot, so I'll chuck them in as well I think.  I am looking ahead to next year as I'm probably going to do a triple in March (gulp!) so if these porridge pots work well tomorrow it's a good solution for breakfasts before each day, especially as they were only 35p or something like that.  
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - you're right 2 pounds is usually fine as a weekly loss, he just wants to check that it's all fat and not muscle.   I've got some marathons coming up and I'd probably be happier only losing a pound a week while I'm running them but I'll have to change my diet pre marathon and will actually have to carbo load which I haven't really done for a marathon for quite a while.   I have carbo loaded for ultras though.

    Great that you'll get a chance to watch the cycling, I've always found it quite exciting to watch.

    Big G - I'm sure you'll be fine when your marathons are closer together, you've done well getting back to your racing after your long time off with that shoulder injury. 

    Good idea to take both shoes, that surface might be a bit like running on concrete so the more cushioned shoes would be better for that.

    Those porridge pots are very useful as if you decide to eat elsewhere you can just bring the pots home with you and use another time whereas prepared food often ends up being wasted.


  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Just watched the start on catch up as that's all around where I run and live so interesting to see it a bit differently,nice to see even pro cyclists need to stand up to ride up my hills,going to head to birkenhead park in a couple of hours to see the finish.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    It was quite good watching the racing,incredible how fast they were going,it also surprised me how many other vehicles were with them,must have been 10-15 police and support bikes up to a mile ahead of them and I didn't realise how many cars followed them,seemed like a massive convoy.
    Managed to fit in 11 miles around it so all good.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, I’ve seen ToB when a stage finished on Dartmoor. I agree, the amount of vehicles etc involved are really surprising.  The logistics of it must be massive, with the roads closed and all those vehicles etc rolling through. I was on a hill stage so the sprinters weren’t going to be in contention at the end, but I remember seeing the sprinter Andre Greipel - I think of cyclists being small, but he seemed huge and kind of looked too big for his bike.

    Got to Reading Services ok, and got a really good/quiet room. About to watch the Vuelta highlights and then I’ll go down for some food before relaxing prior to tomorrow. 
  • Well done on the pounds, Shades - hopefully it is fat.
    Good luck Big G.
    Had my massage - Shades I know you don't think much of them but my groin feels a lot better. The guy I had today wasn't my regular masseur but he was really good. In this instance, definitely money well spent.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - I know it's exciting the entourage of police motorcycles and cars, then the race and team cars and the cyclists all at a breakneck speed.   I watched them one year in Ashburton, on the same part of the town that you ran through for DD except they came from the other direction and it was like a whirlwind coming through.

    Big G - I take it you stayed at Reading again.   Hope you have a good run today and it's not too warm for you.

    Cal - there's loads of good solid evidence that sports massage makes runners feel better, and that's what you want as a runner.   
    Just no evidence that they do a lot of the stuff that runners and some masseurs say they do.

    Is your groin niggle the same as you had a while ago and had an injection for?

    Shock weather this morning, 17 degrees at 5 am and so humid it was like running in a sauna, not helped with that very light type of drizzle too.   Luckily I was expecting it  and had hung out the window of my flat to check, so switched back to light vest etc but still dripping with sweat at the finish.


  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Good luck for today.
  • Big G - Good luck with the marathon.
    Shades - That's a nice weight loss in a week.
    Cal - Glad to hear the groin feels better.
    10 miles today with 2 sets of 2*1200 and 1*800, reps came out to 4:30/4:26/2:54/4:24/4:36/2:58.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yes, stayed Reading M4 Travelodge about 30mins from the race start (if traffic is good!)!!

    Although the Travelodge room was great, I didn’t actually sleep too well. For some reason, it was crossing my mind whether to do the full 6hrs or not, but I eventually woke up deciding that was a stupid idea and stuck to the marathon.

    I decided to leave the Travelodge early as it’s still a drive down the M4 to get to the venue, and the drive was fine which was good. It meant I was at the venue at around 7:15am for a 9am start but I got a coffee nearby and used the loo, so it was all fine. Also, I managed to park at the start/finish car park, which only had 15 spaces, with the larger car park about 1/4 mile away. 

    On getting to the venue, it was an easy decision as to what shoes to wear.  The path was good, but it was obvious that more cushioned shows would be useful so I went for those.  This race is a new one for me and it’s 5x5.25 mile out-and-back flat laps for the marathon. Just one aid station at the start/finish of each lap so I decided to take a bottle belt with me and mint cake should I need it. I was glad of the water but didn’t need the mint cake. 

    Conditions were ok at the start, and I stayed pretty consistent for the first 4 laps - approximately 45-46mins a lap. I did struggle quite a bit on the last lap as quads were hurting again, which is possibly still from Saturday, and a bit low on energy too, but got it done in an official time of 3:51:59. Happy enough with that (apart from the last lap), picked up the goodie bag, had a chat with a couple of people and then jumped in the car to head home.

    It was a surprisingly picturesque route, but it was noisy with the M4 hum always present, and the route being quite close to the airport. But I’d probably do it again. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Steve - that sounds like a good session, you'll have earned your rest day tomorrow after that.

    Big G - well done, that's a good result today.  Those out and back courses can be mentally challenging and makes running a consistent pace hard at times.

    I expect you've got a stash of chocolate in your goody bag. ;)

    It's hard to stay on longer than marathon distance at these events. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, the only time I've done the 6hrs is when it wasn't on my mind at all at the start of the event, which does seem counter-intuitive.  But I'd fallen over at an LDWA on the Sunday, and then on the Thursday I did one of these events, but I did it pretty much at long run pace as the ribs didn't hurt as much at that pace.   I got to marathon point in about 4:45ish, and then on a whim just decided to carry on and did the 33 miles in the 6hrs.  Probably because I was taking it so steady allowed me to then do the 6hrs.

    Yes, stash of chocolate in the goody bag :)  

    Forgot to say that I was glad I got there early, as there were loads of runners who arrived late - I think the latest was over an hour late - due to an accident on the M4.
  • Shades - no, that was my TFL. I had a groin injury in December 2015, doing squats in the gym but I've had minor issues with it off and on. I remember hurting it years ago (back during the late 90s) when I did pigeon in a yoga class. The gym injury probably happened due to an issue that was already there. Years and years of sitting at desks likely hasn't done me any favours.
    Rest day today...I hate rest days.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - one of those things that just has to be endured and managed then, as long as it doesn't stop you running.

    Have you decided what to do about your race hydration?   I saw the forecast on telly last night and looks like it's going to be a warm one on Sunday.


    Big G - the M4 is busy, wouldn't take much for a delay to happen.

    Re going over marathon distance in those events, it's just so tempting to stop at marathon point.   I was talking to one of the 100MC runners at Plym Trail and he would like ultras to be recognised at say 30 miles and I agree with him.   With these challenge events so many runners are running 27ish miles and then going around saying they've done an ultra, which they have by 100MC rules, and general classification, but we didn't used to have those challenge events and it was rare but not unheard of to have an ultra shorter than 30 miles, I think I've only got one and it was an LDWA event.   So now these 100MC runners can run 100 ultras never having run further than 27 miles, that seems bizarre.

    My event next week is a 7 hour challenge event and I'm hoping that I will continue on to complete an ultra, the laps are 3.3 miles each as I could do with an ultra towards my target number of ultras.   But I expect I'll stop at marathon as some of the course is good trail and probably won't be great for me, we'll see.

    8 miles for me this morning, nice and fresh but not cold today, beautiful skies too.    Second time I've run after doing lower body programme at the gym and much better this time, legs a little tired but didn't have an energy crisis as I had last time.   But I did wake up hungry again so had to eat something before my run.
  • The warm weather was why I was considering the hydration vest. I could take my nasty little bottle belt, though - less cumbersome although I hate the way it spins around my race until I get sweaty enough for it to stick.
    Glad your gym work is starting to pay off.
    Big G - very well done on your impromptu ultra.

    Easy 6 this morning - I was up early enough to be out for 6.15am so I saw the sunrise, which was nice, and avoided all the little school kids wobbling around on bikes, which was even better.
    When I got back I decided to pick up all the litter on the drive (passers by seem to use our drive as a trash bin). Groin had been ok on the run but complained like hell once I started picking litter. Cancelled my yoga class immediately. Groin's OK now but it doesn't seem to like the bending forwards, and I don't want to piss it off before Sunday.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    I've just checked my race list and I have a couple more ultras with a distance less than 30 miles, they were all 6 hour races, mostly on tartan track,  but not challenge events
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited September 13
    Cal, I think you may have misread, as I only did the marathon.  Was considering the 6hr challenge overnight, but woke up and put the idea out of my head :)  

    Shades, sounds like you're doing really well with your exercises and diet.

    Did a 3-mile run this morning, probably a bit quick to be called a "recovery" run.  Felt generally okay, although quads quite sore in the first mile, but glad I went out.  OH has friends over and staying with us so I think we're doing a bit of sight seeing over the next few days, although I'm hoping to get to parkrun tomorrow AM.

    I saw a couple of pics of me from yesterday's event, from early on, and it's confirmed again that my form is dreadful.  I can't help thinking that sometimes my body is almost working against me in terms of being efficient, but it's really hard to change running form, and then I worry that if I tried I'd develop niggles I didn't know I had!  Shoulders very stiff, but I can understand that, as the shoulder still isn't right.  Main issue is I hardly lift my knees and have very little back lift as well...."plodder" I think is the term!  Having said that, legs/achilles were a little stiff in the start of the run (when the pics were taken), but I wonder if I need to try and do something.  It's funny as in my mind I think I'm running quite well, but when I see pics/videos, I'm really not!  I saw a pic of me from City to Sea where I thought I was legging it to the finish line, but even there I'm not running anywhere near efficiently, although of course by that time I was quite tired.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - trouble is things like the bottle belt and possibly your hydration vest might annoy you even more when you're running at a much faster pace than when you wear them in training.

    I always pick up the litter outside our flats too when I finish my run, not usually a lot thankfully.

    Big G - if you're running a marathon or ultra you don't want high knee lift or back lift, an economical running form is the best for those distances.   Maybe just check the photos in a faster/shorter event if you want to look at your form.   I think we can be overcritical of ourselves too.
  • You're right, Big G - lack of reading comprehension there! Re: your form, I'd recommend finding an AIM practioner if you can afford to. I think this guy would be your nearest: https://www.blacksheepfitness.co.uk/about-us.html
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Well done for yesterday, I'm with you on the poor form,I noticed in all pictures I have my arms quite high and tense so the last few weeks I've been working on lowering them and relaxing and it seems to be working as I have less shoulder aching during a run.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cal, thanks.  Not sure I can really justify a coach/practitioner as such.  This morning I've started following a few people on Facebook who provide routines to help with some of this stuff...whether I'll start using it is another matter!

    Ian, yeah, my arms seem to kind of cut across my body, rather than going back and forwards.

    Shades, one thing that has always confused me a bit is that my long run pace and associated style is very different to my 5k/10k racing style.  Even if I'm racing a half/marathon the style differs from my run long form.  My long run form is quite shuffly, but when I'm racing a shorter race it's a longer stride length, higher knees, higher cadence, etc (but still by no means perfect!).  I often wonder if my long run running style should be more like my racing style, in order to practice.  But then I think if I did try and do that in a long run, it would feel quite laboured/awkward as the pace is too slow for me to run like that.

    Also I've always had the impression that our individual/natural running style shouldn't really be messed with about too much in case it causes other issues.  But maybe I'm wrong about that.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - that really works relaxing and lowering the shoulders.

    Big G - you will have a different form for running long distances and faster shorter distances, we all do.  At a faster pace you will lean forward more, and the landing point of your foot will be further forward towards your toes, your arms will become more active and lead you more and become a key element of your balance, knees will lift higher etc.

    If your current style is not causing you any injuries and you feel comfortable then I wouldn't suggest changing anything.   To change your form could take a very long time and not be successful, many that no longer wanted to be heel strikers have ended up with chronic achilles and/or calf problems.

    Next time you're at club training, ask one of the coaches to watch you in training and see if they have any meaningful criticism of your style.  Sometimes just small adjustments (such as Ian has made) can be enough to give you a more comfortable and efficient style.
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