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Shades Marathon Training

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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades/Big G-Often amazed at the difference in weather in a small country.Very nice morning here,nice and sunny with a bit of wind,I'm sure it will seem worse when I run though.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - I feel sorry for the driver too who would get blamed, I'm sure.   I'd have been quite happy to go to court to defend the driver.

    I'm hoping that the swan was protecting the cygnets, if they've hatched.    They lost a nest there last year due to floods but it was early in the year and I think it was the same pair then built another nest and successfully hatched cygnets.

    Nice to get that pack of stuff from Tokyo, is it like a Japanese kimono?   Wear the shirt, it's not as if you DNS'd by choice.

    Hope the headache clears.


    Big G - I knew last night it was going to be gusts up to 45mph this morning as I went out last night and rearranged the recycling wheelie bins so they wouldn't blow over in the night.   It must have been rough as there was a lot of tree debris down on Stover Way but when I went out it was squally in places and some pockets of calm so I think I was lucky.   But you live nearer the sea so I expect it's worse there.   Wind is not due to drop until 4pm and then to 20mph so you might as well just get out there, head inland.


    Ian - I know it is amazing how much it varies in this country.   A few years ago my flight home from the IOM was cancelled due to fog that wasn't expected to clear for 12 hours and I had to stay another night.   I sent a text to my boss saying I couldn't get home so wouldn't be into work the next day.   He didn't believe me and asked someone to look it up on the internet as here is was 29 degrees and not a cloud in the sky.
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    1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    17 miles on Saturday and 5 miles on Sunday to bring up just over 50 for the week. Today was 6*800m (90 secs) then 4*200m (60 secs), reps were 3:01/3:03/2:57/3:03/2:58/3:01 and then 39/40/37/37, warm up and cool down for 11 miles in total.
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Steve-How does that compare to last time you did the session?
    OH is putting me to shame now,got up and went and did 19.5 miles,also averaging 42mpw the last 7 weeks.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Good session there Steve.  

    Ian, your OH is doing brilliantly.  That's a very decent average over a long period, so very consistent too.

    Quite cold out and although not heavy, it was raining for the whole of the run today.  I did a variation of yesterday's run but avoided the seafront section due to the wind, so ended up doing 8.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - I think your OH is keeping you on your toes training wise.    ;). You're probably motivating each other.

    Big G - quite chilly out there today.  Did the wind affect your HR?

    I haven't been down town shopping for a few weeks but I needed a few things I can't get in the supermarket, including batteries for my HRM, so essential shopping, well for me anyway.  :D

    Not a pleasant experience, I walked into Poundland and a female staff member shouted at me ONE WAY, 2m APART, NO OVERTAKING.  This proved impossible as a couple stopped for a long discussion on light bulbs so the rest of us had to overtake.  Went to check out and same member of staff told me to wait while she washed the floor around the scanner!  So I had to wait while the silly cow washed the floor with Cillet Bang but she didn't clean down the self service scanner which I thought might have been more appropriate.   Had to queue 15 minutes to get into Asda but once in was fine as they're not letting so many in at a time.  So popping down town for a couple of things, took me 90 minutes instead of the usual 30.  Very frustrating.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yes, very slow today in the wind overall but actually HR was arguably a bit too low as the mile averages were: 138, 139, 137, 136, 136, 135, 136, 134.  I am still getting used to it but it very rarely goes above 142 now, but probably I'm not running totally correctly with the undulations.  I enjoyed it though and in fact 142 is the max anyway, and according to MAF it should be be 132-142 so from that point of view I was okay.

    I had an enjoyable run out though and planned it so that my last mile was the quickest, which you can see why from the last downhill :)  900ft of ascent for the 8 miles.

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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-That sounds like a good run,gives you a bit of room to let the heart rise on the hills a bit.
    Just 9 for me today,which is low for a day off,stomach has felt a bit rough all day for some reason so didn't want to go too far.Will just add a couple of miles to each run I've planned this week to make it up.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - that's really good as you're getting between 70-75% MHR now especially as that's a hilly route. 

    Ian - you'll have no problem making that up.   

    Food shop this evening but I'm expecting a much more enjoyable experience than town shopping.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I have to say, after the first couple of days, I am mainly enjoying the runs.  I get back from the runs and although they're very slow I basically think I could go out and do it again, which is encouraging in some ways.  Actually, I was thinking on today's run that it would be really easy to do 2 runs a day at this HR.  Say 10 in the morning and 4-5 in the afternoon as a way of getting a few more miles in.  Not everyday but say 3 or 4 days a week.  It's obviously not possible at the moment with the guidelines as they are....plus the extra washing would be a problem!  But I do generally feel really fresh.  My aim through May, injury/illness permitting, is to do 50-60ish a week at this HR and as I type this I do think that should be achievable.  I did 62 last week with one day off, and 18 so far this week.  As I think I said the other day, if I'm out an extra 10-20mins on these runs it's no issue at the moment, as I've got nowhere else to be have I!!
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Shades - no, it's more of a dryrobe thing.
    I don't think this headache is a normal headache, I think it's a virus. Hopefully not Covid...! I had a nap this afternoon and woke up feeling cold (despite it being 20 degrees in my room) and achier in other places. Not sure how I've caught something given all the hand washing and social distancing. It feels a lot like a bug I had when I attended a mate's wedding - that lasted only two days and was better on the second day, so hopefully it'll go.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2020
    Cal - well that will be useful for taking to races...soon I hope.

    I do hope that bug you have is not Covid 19, how are you feeling today?


    Big G - it's ironic that now that most of us have time to do doubles, time to run and time to rest, we can't :/ 

    Your response to your base training, feeling that you could go out and do it again shows that you've got the pacing right.   That's exactly what Hadd says, the ultimate goal is to run 10 miles at marathon heart rate without loss of pace and know you could do it again.   

    On the few times I did 100mpw that didn't include a marathon race I would run 10 in the morning and 5 at night.  Yes, a lot more washing, but not a problem really as long as you enough kit.   When I did my 100mpw in the IOM I had to load the car with 5 pairs of shoes and 12 sets of kit, fortunately it was August so didn't have to take extra stuff in case the weather was bad.

    Will be interesting to see how they ease the exercise restrictions without folk taking advantage, the non exercisers I mean, we'll see.


    Very pleasant food shop at Aldi last night, quiet, happy staff and happy customers.   It's good that they only allow one person per trolley, that really makes it much easier moving around the store.   Unlike Asda where I saw 4 people with one trolley and they were getting in everyone's way.
    Couldn't get any eggs last night though, they were just unloading an artic but I didn't want to wait 20 minutes.   
    Rest day for me today so will go for a walk later and pick up some eggs on the way.

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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    I still have a headache and some other aches and pains. I definitely don't feel good. Just done a little gentle yoga but I won't be running (though the weather is perfect). Will go for a walk later - I have to go to Boots anyway to get some stronger painkillers.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - you shouldn't go out really if you think it could be Covid.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited May 2020
    Cal, sorry to hear you've got a bug.  Fingers crossed it's nothing serious.

    Shades, thanks.  Yes, that would be great if I get to that - I am losing pace on any individual run, and that is what I hope to see improve over the next few weeks as well as the pace improving slightly at my flat MAF test.  I know I'm repeating myself but it's really just to make sure I do it - but I want to get to the end of May knowing that all my runs have been at this pace.  I spent some time yesterday on YouTube and there are some great stories.  There are some stories of quick runners starting off at 9 or 10min/miles and questioning if it was going to work, but then ended up going sub-2:30.  So the fact that I'm occasionally down at 11min/miles is normal I think.  I thought I was a stats geek, but there's a Brit called Jason Cherriman who did something like 2:22 and he goes into loads of detail and tracks all sorts of stuff.  He's at the level where he doesn't only do low HR now, but still approx 75% of his runs are easy.  Interestingly though on that 25% he doesn't do any really quick reps for his marathons - he does what he calls "marathon specific" training with longer reps at say MP, or possibly HM or 10-mile pace, but nothing quicker than that.  But he does say that his 5k/10k PBs are comparatively poor.  

    Regarding covid, I like many I'm sure would love to know if I've actually had it.  I know I'm not a priority and I agree with the reasons for that, but out of interest I'd really like to know.  A lot of the evidence still seems to say that a large number of people show no symptoms.  
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - HR training is a bit like a religion and there are many times when you have to 'keep the faith'.  Watching YouTube stories is a great way to keep motivated, please put up a link if you find anymore really worth seeing.   We used to have a huge thread on RW on Hadd but there's a lot of our waffle on there to wade through, if I look back on it at any time I'll link any interesting posts/success stories.

    I'm pacing myself with my library books and trying not to read them too fast but I will run out soon,  so I will read Maffetone's book then as I can't remember what he advises after the first BT phase.  It's a long time since I read it.

    Re Covid, I think we'd all like to think we had it and sailed through it with no symptoms.   However, although I did have a few days in early March with what I thought was a mild cold, except I had a headache for 2 days and I never get headaches, I doubt it was Covid.   I do take my RHR every morning and with Covid I would expect very high RHR even if mild or no symptoms.

    I suppose what will happen eventually is that we'll all be able to get tested for antibodies and those without them will be able to get a vaccine.   I can easily see that in the future we won't be allowed to travel even to Europe without immunity passports.   But there's a long way to go yet.
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    Cozy1504Cozy1504 ✭✭✭
    HI all, hope you are all well.

    My marathon training plan officially kicked off again yesterday, I thought this would be the motivation I was sorely lacking but I didn't enjoy my run at all. I think that although the plan has started, the reality is that there is no marathon to train for as there is no way it's going ahead!

    Saw some mention of the IOM and it's weather, I lived in Guernsey for 6 years and I can say that we had our very own climate, usually for the better when comparing to the uk but often in the winter months it meant nothing came in or went out for a few days at a time.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cozy - hope you and the family are well too.

    It's hard to get motivated when you really can't see the event going ahead, maybe just run as you feel and enjoy the freedom from any plan.   Unless you prefer the discipline of a plan.

    I lived in Jersey for 3 years, never had a winter coat there didn't need one.   

    I left a long time ago but a while ago I went over to do Jersey marathon and on the journey home we arrived at the airport in sunshine only for the fog to come down like a blanket.   Flight was delayed and then we had a bit of a hairy flight home, the plane normally goes to Guernsey then onto Jersey but too foggy on the way there so on our flight the pilot had another go at landing in Guernsey and pulled up from the landing at the last moment.   I'm not a nervous flier but a few did scream and panic a bit.   We flew onto Exeter still with some passengers on the plane that had left there hours ago.

    I haven't done Guernsey marathon, it's on my 'to do' list. :)
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Went out and did 11 miles this morning.  From my house I went up a steep, mile long hill, which meant that most of the rest of the run was undulating downhill, meaning it was more runnable.  It was a good run out.

    Shades, I had sent a request through the Lufthansa website and got an automated reply.  I've just received a more personal reply, and basically they've extended the voucher scheme util 31/8, although still no use to me really.  Full email is below in case it's of use.

    Thank you for your feedback requesting a refund of your ticket. 

    Please note that Customer Relations will not be able to process requests regarding these topics, or any changes to bookings or fare conditions. All relevant information may be found on our website https://www.lufthansa.com/us/en/flight-information.

    We are well aware of the legal framework and assure you that refunds are still possible. We do, however, ask for your understanding that, in the current situation, refunds are not possible within the standard time limits and we cannot reliably communicate a concrete time frame.

    Alternatively, we would like to inform you that we have extended our rebooking conditions and made them even more flexible. All information regarding rebooking and voucher options are available on LH.com at https://lufthansa.flightvoucher.com/?lang=en.

    If a cancellation is currently the only option available to you, please contact our Service Center. Worldwide telephone numbers can be found at https://www.lufthansa.com/us/en/help-and-contact.

    We thank you again for your understanding in this dynamic and unprecedented situation.

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    1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Cozy - Good to hear that training for the marathon has resumed! I did the Guernsey ultra a few years ago, it's a lovely island!
    Big G - Sounds like a great run.
    Ian - I haven't done that session while on my "new training" only 400s and 600s instead of the 800s, but when I was marathon training I did the 800s, but all sub 3 mins, but those were meant to be at 5k pace, whereas these are at 10k pace. Your OH is doing some brilliant training.
    Nothing amazing here, just 5 easy miles today.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - well that's a really nice email, I bet Ryanair's  isn't worded so well  ;)

    I haven't had time to contact Lufthansa yet, I've been finalising the ARC accounts the last couple of days.   I'll send an email as you did tomorrow and take it from there.

    Good idea to get the hill out of the way in the first mile.


    Steve - after I mentioned Guernsey marathon I went to look at the website and the course goes round the island, pretty sure it's all road.   Date now postponed to 25th October, so a potential option for me if Frankfurt doesn't go ahead.  Also a much cheaper time to travel to Guernsey than August bank holiday.

    5 miles must feel like a rest day to you.   ;)
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    Cozy1504Cozy1504 ✭✭✭
    It's very warm in Scotland today, my Strava over the years shows that I'm whatever the opposite of a fair weather runner is, I love warm weather, just not running in it!

    Guernsey really is a beautiful wee island, and although I don't have a to do list, Guernsey Marathon is on the list that doesn't exist! 
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    Cozy1504Cozy1504 ✭✭✭
    Just to add, I'm pretty sure at the end of the Guernsey marathon you get a pint of milk from Guernsey Dairy instead of your normal sports drink or water! Not sure I could down a pint of milk at the end of a big run!
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cozy - well the marathon would be a good reason for a visit back to Guernsey for you.

    Don't think I could drink a pint of gold top.   Well chilled semi skimmed I could manage.  Of course milk is a perfect post run drink, protein, carbs, vitamins and fluids.  I'd rather have it in a strong latte though.
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-That's a good email off Lufthansa.
    Our club had set a virtual mile challenge this week as today is the anniversary of the Sub 4,so Mr Never does any speed training thought he would give it a go...
    It bloody hurt,how people enjoy that I do not know,paced it like a newbie paces a marathon,2:33 half then 2:44,gave me 5:17,it was actually 78% wava,but I won't be in a rush to do that again.
    It's a pity our track is closed as the venue is where Chariots of Fire filmed their running scenes,and everyone at some point has run the last few yards in slow motion like the film.
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    RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Cozy - Good to hear from you
    Cal - Hope you get better soon
    Went out for 7 miles which was a bit rough. Haven’t been able to get out since Sunday due to working every waking hour since then (literally). That and a lack of sleep meant I really couldn’t stay below 140bpm at all and my pace even at the 142 average I managed was much slower than previous sessions at 11:30m/m. A shame as was a lovely evening for running. 
    Shades in this case would you just try your best at a HR as low as you can as I did, or just chalk it off and run by feel? I was still basically in zone 2 but I could tell my condition wasn’t right. 

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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, that's a great time!  I wouldn't say 2:33/2:44 is that bad a split bearing in mind you don't race that distance.

    Shades, regarding a MAF success story, there's this Yorkshire guy - Jonathon Walton.  He's kind of a "keep it simple"-sort of chap which I quite like.  The interview set up is pretty basic, but he talks about MAF and he eventually trained quite a lot under his MAF rate, which is amazing really.  There's loads on YouTube though, but if a particular one resonates I'll post it here too.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6pwxJE5iVk&frags=pl,wn
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - that's a cracking time for a mile, and in cold blood too.  :o   You are in great shape.

    Rcouture - so sorry to hear life is so stressful and tiring for you right now.    I'm not surprised you couldn't keep your HR down, sometimes that happens in a run but you know the reason for it this time so you might as well let it go and run as you feel.   Obviously you want to avoid runs like that if you can while you're trying to base train.   Hope you can get some rest over the weekend, tomorrow is a bank holiday, are you working then too?

    Big G - thanks for that I'll have a look at that link for the guy MAF training.   Of course mamafox is a MAF success story too :) 

    Cal - how are you, better I hope?


    8 hilly miles for me this morning, chilly but lovely morning.  First time I have ever seen a Great Spotted Woodpecker, hear them all the time but never seen one.


    He was on a wall of a farmyard tapping on the wall obviously eating some grubs/ants living in the wall. 

    Then I ran around the corner and lying down on the road was a deer, it leapt to it's feet and galloped off.   Seemed really strange for it to lie in the road, but just as well I disturbed it as it was on a blind corner and doubt it would have been able to avoid being hit by a car coming round that corner.   It didn't appear to be injured, there was no blood on the road.

    When I got home I saw my neighbour and her son is now home from hospital but has been going for dialysis three times a week, has only just been discharged from the renal department, he's never had kidney problems before.   But it's going to take him some while to recover completely from Covid, he's having to use a mobility scooter and a chair in the shower.   Before he was running his own print business and reasonably fit and active, although overweight.
    I've said before my neighbour is not that bright but we had a long and sensible conversation and then we were discussing the easing of lockdown and she asked me if I thought she should wear a black rubbish bag as PPE, would that protect her from the virus.   She didn't mean over her head ;)
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    1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Shades - Great photo. Yes, 5 miles is a nice rest day!! I did notice the new Guernsey marathon course, it looks like a good one!
    Ian - That's a superb time, problem with a short distance is that if you do go off too slow you probably won't make the time back as you run out of distance! As Big G says I think you paced it well. I know from doing my 200m reps, that around that pace it's really tough running....not sure I could continue for 1 mile!

    Tempo run today, 12 miles with 5 at tempo came out to 6:46/48/43/42/46. 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Steve - I didn't take the photo, nicked off the internet, I was just checking if my twitching skills were right.   

    You're running really well too.


    The pandemic  has been catastrophic for many businesses including the motor industry, this made me laugh though...

    https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/the-uks-best-selling-car-is-the-cozy-coupe/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CHUB_INSUR_A_W1_2020-05-06_110537_12024037&cid=eml-email-CHUB_INSUR_A_W1_2020-05-06_110537_12024037-Drive_NL_MEMB_Advice1

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