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Shades Marathon Training
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Rcouture: this is how I started... By the time I ran my first marathon, I already had 3 planned and booked in!
Shades - your lockdown thoughts mirror mine too... I'd be happy to see a very relaxed xmas and new year (not so fussed myself) also until 3rd Jan as have a trail event lol.
Cal - 2017 and 2018 I have always tailed training off in November and December, (from 200 mile months of 50 mile months) so similar to yours, you have had a tough time with injuries and niggles the rest isn't a bad thing, especially if you manage the niggles and can train well in the new year and be in a good shape before Richmond.
Rcouture - It won't be long until you enter DD if this forum has anything to go by. I entered in 2018 but plantar fasciitis stopped me from running, I've got my excused ready for 2021 and 2022 but sure I'll be in for 2023 (if I'm able to run).
Ian - I'm not surprised you want another go at DD, it sounds like a great race and defo one I want to run, just a shame not likely to be free until 2023.
Emmy - sounds like you're close to being on that list.
Since wednesday's speedier session I hadn't ran until last night... My legs didn't recover well from the speed session, my problem knee was sore and my calfs were tight. Procrastinated over the weekend but forced myself out for a wet 6 miles last night.
I feel I've lost alot of confidence with the last fall but hopefully can get back on track over the next couple of weeks.
OK, it is a race where I've seen grown men cry. 😭
Rcouture - don't worry, I'm not putting you on any list. You so need to run that marathon, that's your priority.
Emmy - I didn't know your sister lived in Taunton, roughly 60 miles from Princetown
7 miles this morning, bit chilly and damp but no wind.
Both pairs of my new shoes arrived yesterday so decided to try the NB1080 v10 first, or my 'elf' shoes as I call them, I've seen them called that in some of the reviews due to the flared heel tab NB have on some of their models. I have a normal to slightly high arch and my right foot is a little wider than my left and the right shoe felt slightly tight when I put them on. But I have about 30 mins in between putting on my running shoes and leaving home, doing my kitchen sink exercises and my core tabata. By the time I was ready to run there was no feeling of tightness and nor during my run. Can't put elastic laces in unfortunately as eyelet holes are too small, same with my last pair of NB and Hokas. The foot bed feels like a perfect fit for my feet and I did some hills today and even on very steep hills I don't think my feet would slide at all in them. Lovely cushioning especially in the forefoot and plenty of room in the toe box, which I like and had a really comfortable run. All in all I think a very good shoe. Next pair I would probably buy the wide fitting as I think the pair I have I wouldn't be able to use in very hot weather when feet might swell.
Sorry to hear you were sore after your run In hindsight, I know you wanted to support your friend but maybe not the wisest move to do a speed session as a comeback run.
Perhaps just a little bit of easy running to get yourself back to enjoying your running again and regain your confidence again.
You don't need to line up your excuses not to do DD, you'll do it when/if you want to. I'd just hate for you to miss out, that's all. 😉
Robert, sorry to hear about the after effects of your last run.
Regarding DD, Chair is definitely hopeful. We had a meeting last night and if it is waved starts he hasn't quite figured out how to do the timekeeping aspects for managing the cut offs, and he was strongly thinking about not having the date on the medals and shirts in case of cancellation (so the same shirts/medals can be used the year after, except he'd get new ribbons for the medals) but he is pressing ahead.
My knee seems to be okay, and I'm still doing the exercises for the achilles, but not much else at the moment - I didn't even leave the house yesterday! I am seeing a friend today for a coffee and maybe a takeaway lunch if we can find somewhere, so I'm looking forward to that.
Rob-I have no intentions of doing speed work until I'm back to normal mileage,easy to say but I'd advise the same.
Rob...not surprised - falling has had some pretty serious consequences for you. I've fallen four times this year but haven't hurt myself badly enough to stop running, thankfully. Left hand is still a little sore if I squeeze it so I do wonder if there was a small fracture in the fifth metacarpal.
Big G, that's promising...I hope you're able to get some runs in soon. Enjoy your meet up.
Glad you like the new shoes, Shades.
Rest yesterday (I walked 4.5 miles) but I did have a lovely run today. I didn't go out until after 9 and it was warm and quite sunny - even got the shorts out! I decided on the spur of the moment to do a double prison run, so I ran to Brixton prison (or at least, past the road where it is - there is a barrier there so wasn't sure if I could run along it... so I ran past the windmill again which is on the next road down) then along through Clapham and Wandsworth commons, alongside Wandsworth prison and back home. I covered a little over 9 miles, which brings me to 1700 for the year. (I've actually likely run a good bit further than that but I round down fractions when it comes to recording my miles).
Got lucky with the roads too - I managed to get across all of them without stopping, even though there was plenty of traffic. One of those good runs we all hope for.
Cal - many runners have a huge mental wall about going over marathon distance, that wall doesn't exist but as so used to 26.2 being the finish line it is a good idea to do a short ultra to alleviate that fear. However, in training a hilly marathon is far better prep for DD than a say a flat 50km. The distance is not the issue with DD it's the hills and possibly the weather too. We've had conditions from 28 degrees down to 5 degrees with wind and rain.
Good you're back running well.
Rest day for me today, but I'm on track for a 45 mile week so getting back to 50mpw.
Ian, if there are cases where a runner who sets off in a faster wave gets a finish medal even though they have a slower marathon time than someone who misses the cut off, I don't think that would be right. I think because the cut offs are a part of the event he'd want to try and make sure each runner has the same amount of time, if it can be done easily by the timekeepers. There was some very brief talk of getting chip timing in, but it's cost prohibitive especially for such a small event. One of the people whose job is to remove people from the course if they miss the cut offs (also a committee member) was a bit concerned about it as it will obviously be more tricky for her than usual. I don't think he has a way around it at the moment, other than provide her with a list of cut off times to check for each runner. I wonder if there can be something to be done to help, for example by giving race numbers out in the order that they'll start (from fastest to slowest) rather than randomly. That would mean that runners would probably (more or less!) go past in ascending number order, and she'd potentially be able to scan down her list more easily, rather than looking for totally random numbers on her list?
Disagreements do happen on occasion, even when the current rules are clear. For example if a faster runner has got through the marathon point cut off but has a shocker and then basically walks the rest, whilst a slower runner misses the marathon cut off, carries on regardless, and then is ahead of the other runner at the finish. That does happen and can cause disagreements/frustrations already, but as you know the marathon point is the final cut off.
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I saw my friend yesterday and we had a nice 3 or 4 hours. Went for a walk, had fish and chips, and then coffee/cake later.
I'm not sure what is going on, but on my left foot (the same leg that I had that sudden knee pain the other day), I am struggling to put the heel down when walking up a hill or steps. Seriously no idea what that's all about. It seems if it's not one thing it's another at the moment.
The slower runners could be sent off first but that may not be a good idea as that would mean the faster runners doing a lot of overtaking on the narrow roads.
Chip timing can be expensive, especially when setting up a new system.
The race number order might be workable. At Hullavington, which I missed, we were starting in race number order, so a spreadsheet could be done to create a chart showing what the cutoff time for each runner would be at each cutoff point.
You picked a lovely day yesterday to eat out. Wouldn't fancy that today.
Odd about your foot, did you do something to it yesterday?
I'm losing track of what day it is in this lockdown. I got up today, stripped the bed, put the sheets in the washing machine then realised it was Wednesday not Thursday when I usually change the bed linen.
Big G, I hope it's one of those weird things that goes away, like when my hip went funny last week.
Shades, I only ever know what day it is because I have a wall calendar in front of me!
Today was earmarked for some speedwork so I opted to go out after 9 as I'm faster then. I ran down to that small rec I found last week that had the quarter mile path loop (around three and a half miles, the route I took) then did two laps hard, one lap recovery, three times. I was thinking I could manage four but I was seriously done after the third interval so I did my recovery lap and then ran back home. Or rather, I ran to Tooting Bec tube (where I hit 8 miles total) and then walked the remaining three quarters of a mile home to give heart and lungs time to recover.
I don't do a lot of speed work so I guess this is something I can get better at, but damn it was knackering! Hammy was a bit grumpy from the intervals but not severe. I'll either do a slow run tomorrow or rest, depending on how I feel.
Big G-I was one if those who finished behind people I was ahead if at maratbon distance.
9 miles yesterday felt tougher than recently,hopefully todays will be better.
Work have given us a 10% bonus again for November,that's 3 this year,really good of them as were not particularly crazy this time and we get paid it just before xmas.
I think you'll do a significant PB next time at DD
7 miles this morning in my new Adrenalines which I'm really impressed with. I've run most of my marathons over the last 25 years in Adrenalines but I switched to Guides when the Adrenalines had a couple of years when they made some changes that IMHO were not good, primarily less cushioning. But they've changed that and the cushioning particularly in the forefoot is better than ever. For the first time ever when out on a shortish run I would have been quite happy to continue and run 20 miles in them this morning, I didn't obviously, breakfast was calling. But I will look forward to doing some of my long runs in them and plan to race my marathons in them too.
I was on the minibus when we passed you running through Postbridge at about 27 miles and I could see you were having a tough time there, but so were so many other runners. The race is quite unique and the relentless hills can come as quite a shock especially for a first timer. But you know now you can do it and know where you found it hard.
If possible you should be looking at some tougher marathons and/or some short ultras. You're right hill rep training won't help with DD at all.
After the race this quote from Muzza on the thread also appeared in RW magazine. I think you'll agree with it
On the race details they mentioned hills at 6m, 9m, 13m & 31m. but they forgot to mention the ones at - 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32 miles, and a bit!
Ian, I think what I'm going to do if it's nice weather in the spring is get out on the coast path much more regularly. On those runs I won't worry about pace at all, but for me it'll just be getting stronger on the really steep hills that aren't runnable anyway at the DD. Then I have a few loops that are hilly/undulating but mainly runnable, and I'll purposefully do more of those types of routes, and run them but not worrying quite as much about HR. I was looking back through my notes and also my posts on here, and I was worried I hadn't done enough hills last time but I think probably the fact I also do quite a lot of hilly walking helped me on the day, so if I can do more out on the coast path that will be something as well. I think for me if I can get to 26.2 in about 4hrs give or take, a 5.5hr finish should be possible and I'd be really happy with that. I don't think I'd particularly change my strategy in terms of getting to the Half marathon point (maybe 5mins quicker or something like that) - I was quite conservative last time, but maybe that helped me on the day so I can't envisage that I'll go racing off in the first 13 miles. Of course it's so weather dependent as well, but we can't really account for that apart from trying to train in all conditions, which is something I'm not very good at as I tend to avoid the really hot weather and also the torrential rain when training. I'm not really sure about how to fit marathons in during the current situation as it's impossible to plan it at the moment - I'll definitely try and enter a couple but it'll just depend on what's available. I know I can enter a Spring Plym Trail one if I have to though.
I spoke to Chair yesterday as we had a call with the membership/race management company because we had some queries. Anyway, he's currently not even totally sure if he'll start the DD runners off from fastest to slowest at the moment (I'd assumed that was a given), because he's wondering if the two people who check the cut offs at each of the check points may have extra time constraints getting from one check point to the next one in time to check all runners. Of course one answer is to have more people doing that role and have different people at each check point, but that will mean more volunteers needed. Plenty of time to think about it all though and he'll figure it out, I'm sure. I'm just pleased he's pushing ahead assuming it's going to happen
The obvious one around here is Windermere but I think it was only 3 weeks before DD,had a look and unsure of many others,I have a week off end Jan so may make my own route up then as its unlikely we will be going away.
From memory the only flat bit is running through Ashburton town centre.
It definitely helps if you're a strong walker on the steeper/longer climbs. I walk the hill out of Ashburton and it's there that I usually overtake a handful of runners on that climb even though they're a fair bit ahead of me coming into Ashburton. As you say, not easy to train for the conditions as it could be all 4 seasons on the day. The year we had a scorcher, 28 degrees, had been a cool spring and that was my first race of the year when I actually wore a vest. Then when we had the coldest run, I had run Cork on the Monday in 26 degrees and 5 days later at DD the temperature dropped during the race to 5 degrees with wind and rain, even Tango dropped out that year and I think he was in the lead. So there's always the possibility that the training goes well and then the weather brings in another huge challenge on the day.
If I follow that Connemara training plan I can do some of my long runs onto Dartmoor, if I run from home to Bovey and up to top car park at Haytor that's a round trip of 22-24 miles with a long climb out of Bovey and then a long downhill back again, I think total climb for that route is about 1600ft which considering 12 miles is flat is a decent climb/descent for a long run.
4 hours at marathon point for you is still quite conservative depending on your fitness at the time. Say if you're in 3:30 shape then 3:50 should be a comfortable marathon target.
Impossible for us to have a selection of pre DD marathons to use next year. Years ago when IOW was in May that was always an important preparation race for me. That IOW course was hilly with a tough climb at 24 miles and that really used to help and I deliberately ran it hard and it was often hot too.
I'm sure the DD team will work something out. They are very generous with the number of marshals so I'm sure there would be a couple they could use to cover any cut off points while others are travelling to next point.
Ian - Windermere is a lovely marathon, but not that hilly. There is a Dartmooresque hill in the first half that is a lung buster. But it would be a good one for training purposes as undulating right to the finish. Three weeks before DD would be perfect timing.
In the past I've relied on marathon races too as my long run training but I guess we've been caught out now and we'll have to do a bit more training.
If you're considering the Connemara ultra training plan you can scale the distances down a bit on the long runs as Connemara Ultra is 39.3 miles. Connemara isn't as hilly as DD so perhaps half of the long runs on flat/undulating routes and half on hilly routes.
That route of mine to Haytor used to be one of my favourites as flat/hilly up/hilly down/flat.
Had a bad night last night...well it started well enough - slept like a log until 3am and then woke up and couldn't go back to sleep. I figured if I ate something then I could still have time to digest it and go out when it got light, but once it was light I was hungry again so had another breakfast and had to wait another four hours for that to digest. So I ended up going out for a rare lunch run. Just did a recovery 6 miles - legs felt heavy - but it was a nice day so it was quite enjoyable in the end.
8 miles today takes me over 2000 for the year,that was the yearly target so will try and stretch it to 2250.
Shades-I'm planning on 4 or 5 easy runs the next couple of weeks,I'm guessing that is ok to jump to that as I'm not recovering from an injury as such,its the aerobic that is poor not the legs.