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Shades Marathon Training

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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    White Star have other similar events, probably not with a willy medal though 😉
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    TR, my mate went to Prague a few weeks ago and then had to isolate for 2 weeks. I saw him the other day and he said he actually regretted going to Prague as he found the two weeks quite tough. 
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    TRTR ✭✭✭
    Big G - i hear him. Being confined to barracks when you feel healthy is a long time !
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    E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Cal: hope to see you at giants head :-) 

    Feel like I've missed a lot on the thread! 

    TR: hope you get better soon and it's not too hard. 

    I've been doing well but very busy. I'm still getting out on my run and I've decided to try for a 5k PB by the end of the year and see what I can achieve speed wise.  
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Emmy - we've only been waffling on as usual, no real news as far as I can remember.   Glad you're OK, has the ankle pain gone?

    I can't imagine you've run many 5k races so a good challenge/goal for you to aim for.    For all of us our racing calendars are decimated so really important to have goals right now.

    My goal is to complete the Connemara Ultra training plan  :'(   At the end of it, if I manage it, I doubt Connemara will go ahead or there may be no travel to Ireland, but never mind.


    6 miles round town this morning, quite mild but really windy, every other turn I made was into a strong headwind, hard to keep my HR down in the wind.

    I've decided not to enter Gloucester as with the speculation of coming out of lockdown looks likely that rule of 6 will go and the race's Covid safe format is based on that.   So will do a last minute entry if the event goes ahead and the weather is good.
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    Big G - Yeah even on steep hills, the walking still isn't easy!!
    Shades - Yeah I saw that about sending your own drinks/food out, that is a great idea!

    Easy 6 miles today.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades I need a goal too, but I'm struggling a bit at the moment.  If I can get back to it soon, I think I will just set out some kind of rough plan with the aim of getting back up to 40ish miles per week.  That does seems a little way off at the moment, but it's a goal.  If I can get back up to that and the niggles are gone in time for Gloucester, I may enter that, and then I suppose the focus will be DD.  But as I say, it feels a long way off currently.

    I did go for a walk yesterday and it (the foot/ankle) was broadly okay, but again I did feel it when I walked back up the steps to my house.  Remote physio session today so I'll see what they say, but I do think it's probably PF although hopefully they'll confirm one way or another.  The fact that it's got easier walking around outside over the last few days is a positive at least.  This Friday will be two weeks since my back procedure as well so if I am able to run on the foot, at least the back shouldn't really stop me from then.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Steve - it does make a difference sending stuff out and if you don't want it you just leave it so no wasted energy carrying it.


    Big G - you've had a long spell off now so gradually building up your MAF pace and mileage would be the sensible way to start and then take it from there when you've reached a comfortable level.   It won't take you long to get back to where you were.

    Hope the physio session goes well.   Hope it's not PF but it could be a symptom/side effect of the knee niggle or vice versa.   

    Will be great to have DD as our focus.


    Ian - how is your foot?


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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    No surprises really in that physio confirmed it's PF.  He got me doing a couple of things to make sure it wasn't a stress fracture, and then gave me a few stretches to do.  I have been doing those anyway (plus more on top), but it was good to get a diagnoses.

    He did say I could run short distances if I manage it alongside the exercises, so I'll just keep going with the strengthening for now, and then may see how I am for a short run on the weekend or early next week, depending on the back.

    I did go for a short walk today (3 miles) and it was more or less fine on the walk, and also pretty good on the steps after the walk.  I'll keep it all going and fingers crossed I caught it before it got too bad anyway.
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-It is promising,I have to press in to it to feel it now,so looks like I stopped in time for whatever it was,its been a week now,but will give it a day or 2 before I chance a run.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - that's good news that you can do short runs.   Was definitely worth the physio consultation to assure you that what you're doing is right for recovery.


    Ian - that is speedy recovery from you. Maybe it was the trip that caused it after all.
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    Big G, I did read an interesting article about how a lot of runners are getting PF due to spending more time at home and barefoot (or socks) instead of shoes, when they are not used to that. (Perhaps the fact I spend almost all the time barefoot is why I don't get it myself).
    Glad it's improving...you were quick to get it seen to so hopefully you can nip it in the bud.

    Emmy - maybe - who knows what will happen next year?

    Ian, fingers crossed.

    Shades, sensible decision. I'm only going to enter stuff close to the race date now - I've lost so much money this year on flights and related expenses. I've an eye on a few low key Runthrough events if races are allowed to happen in December/January, but nothing big aside from that Richmond marathon.

    Had a better sleep last night (only woke up twice, and was able to return to sleep both times) but felt worse on waking...typical. Same low level crappy feeling I've been dealing with off and on. I did get myself out for a 6 miler at 9am - was supposed to be recovery pace but, despite the groggy feeling, I had a hard time slowing myself down. I only managed mile 5 at recovery pace, after deliberately slowing down after mile 4 was sub-10. Felt easy enough though, so there's that.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - what did the physio say about your knee?

    Cal - re races, I agree.  I will enter DD as soon as entries open but apart from that I'm not even looking for races.  If I get to do the few races that I have deferred entries for next year I will be happy enough.

    Hope you get a place in Giants Head, maybe a lot ahead of you won't have been training and not take up the chance of a place.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cal, thanks.  I have to say, I have been wondering if the fact that I can't do all that much currently is itself causing more issues in terms of stiffening up etc.  I am keen to get back out there!

    Shades, I said about the knee and he asked me if I thought my knee was moving inwards slightly when I walked.  I told him that I had noticed it was very slightly (i.e, when I struggle to put my heel down, I see that my knee and foot is pointed in), but that I didn't know if it was the knee causing the foot issue, or the foot causing the knee!  He said it's related and gave me some exercises to strengthen the knee.  Basically, stand up straight with feet/toes straight ahead.  Keeping foot on the floor, twist the knee out to as far as is comfortable, and bend the knee and hold that.  This is bending the knee through a different plane than normal, and do it with a resistant band if possible.  I had noticed this exercise on a forum elsewhere but didn't want to do it unless instructed in case it hurt the knee more, but I've today bought some better resistance bands which include a door attachment to safely secure the band in place, which will be arriving tomorrow.  I have a load of cheap physio bands I have built up over the years from physio, but a decent set is something I think I'll make use of so I ordered them today.  OH will make use of them too.

    Speaking of OH, she's done amazingly well.  She's lost 2st in weight - not that she was overweight but she's just toned up really well.  She joined a forum by Davina McCall in April and is really into it.  She's met friends etc through it as well, so she's loving it, especially the flexibility of doing the classes when she wants to at home.  They do have "live" classes too, but there's a massive bank of other classes that she really enjoys.  On a day off from work, she may do 3 or 4 classes, or if she's tired she'll do an easier one, or a stretch routine etc.  She walks to work now as she no longer needs a car at work now that Living Coasts has gone, so 1hr of walking a day plus an often strenuous job moving heavy animals at work is all helping, I'm sure.  It's funny isn't it - online classes like that don't really do it for me, but for her a gym membership wasn't workable, so it's great there are different options for different people.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - that's really interesting about the knee and worth doing that strengthening exercise as part of your regular routine.  Knee exercises are hard to find.

    Wow at OH, 3-4 classes a day is a lot.   That's a massive difference in her lifestyle especially as she was working all through lockdown so not as if she suddenly had masses of spare time to get fit.  She'll be needing some new clothes with toning up and that weight loss.

    Online classes don't do it for me either, every day I get one or sometimes two messages reminding me that the online classes are about to start at the leisure centre.  They're free but I've never even clicked to have a look, I just clear the messages.  

    Every morning before I go for my run I do my kitchen sink exercises, that takes about 13 minutes, then my core tabata, that takes 12 minutes.  Then I run, no weights or any other stuff.   Waiting patiently for the gym to reopen.  :/
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    Hi All. Fingers crossed for everyone’s niggles improving. 

    Not much going on my end. Just building back mileage with easy MAF runs while juggling a busy period at work. Fee like I’m pretty close to where I was fitness wise now which is nice. Run today was in 15 degrees, and I realise I haven’t run in anything but 5in shorts since last spring! Colder runs will be a shocker. 
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yes, she's had to buy new clothes as the old ones were too baggy.  Also, she's had to ask for new work clothes as they were too big as well.  Those virtual classes that I do at the gym are Les Mills ones, and my gym has offered them all up to be streamed for free during lockdown (I think there are 800 of them, so it's a sizeable bank of classes).  I did try one session to see what it was like, but I just don't get on with it from home.

    I'm not sure what he's doing, but Matt D (from Plym Trail) is getting some serious miles in.  He's planning a 120 mile training run tomorrow, that will have roughly 20000ft of ascent.....  He said he's done over 3500 miles this year so far, which bearing in mind there haven't been many races is very good going!

    I was flicking around yesterday and stumbled across a couple of documentaries and interviews about Courtney Dewalter.  I was obviously aware of her and knew she was winning Ultras out right, but didn't quite realise how laid back she was.  On one interview she was being asked about nutrition (normal), sleep (nothing special), massage (she doesn't do it), weights (she does some core work) and she basically keeps it extremely simple and enjoyable for her.  When asked about diet she just said "well, I quite like nachos and cheese", and then followed up with "I don't restrict anything as I like it all, and I don't want to measure out portions of kale...it's just not me", which made me laugh.  Alongside the physical ability, her biggest asset (it seems to me) is her extreme mental toughness.  She was quite funny when talking about hallucinations she has them when night running and said that at first they freaked her out, but now she knows what it is and tries to remember the funny occurrences.  She said at one race (a 238 mile race she won out right) she had a total of 21 mins sleep - a 20-min nap and 1-min nap on the trail.  She said the 1-min nap totally revitalised her!  On that race she won it by 8hrs or something, but she stuck around and saw some of the tail runners come in.  When you see pics of her she doesn't look like an elite athlete really - she wears long shorts, and just looks very, very normal.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - it's only a few days that you were commenting that you didn't know if you could get your pre holiday pace back in time for your half marathon.   But that seems a very quick return to fitness, which is good, another sign of your improved fitness.
    That cold weather will come.


    Big G - our virtual classes are done by our usual instructors I think.

    Matt D is doing another charity run for NHS.   I suppose the only way he can get sponsorship now is to make each run further and harder, this one will be very hard, running through the night at this time of year.

    I had to google Courtney Dauwalter, I don't really follow ultra runners as most are doing off road events which doesn't interest me so much.   Actually I don't follow any runners at all.  :)  Hallucinations are very common in ultra running, but only when you get to say 90+ miles, I've never run further than 80 so not been that close to find out.   Most folk I know that run 100 mile events have hallucinated at some time.


    8  miles today, 4 miles of which was hilly 585 ft, ankle was OK on the hills.   Bitterly cold wind today although it's not that cold out of the wind.
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    Big G- She’s brilliant. I listened to her on the Joe Rogan podcast and she just seems so chilled. Think she won the big backyard ultra a couple of weeks ago where you have to run X miles every hour until you’re the last person standing. Her long basketball shorts are excellent!
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Brilliant effort by OH,that's a great loss,my wife does a lot of the YouTube videos,does nothing for me but whatever gets you motivated is brilliant.
    Courtney is great,I was about to recommend the Joe Rogan but Rcouture beat me to it,love listening to Camille also,the 2 of them are incredible and both seem like really good people, think they rub a few people the wrong way as they say what they are going to do,and usually do it.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian/Rcouture, it was the Joe Rogan podcast I stumbled across. I watched a documentary about a race she did and afterwards the Joe Rogan interview got recommended so I watched that as well.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - it seems your interest is growing in longer ultras.  ;)  Planning for the future?  
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, ha, no definitely not.  I do fancy another go at a 6hr race some time as I think I could probably fairly easily beat my current (and only) distance, but that's about it really - I think if I went through marathon in 4hrs and walked the rest, I'd still beat it, so it is a tame PB of mine (33 miles).  I just find it very interesting how people can motivate themselves through the inevitable dark times in a long race like that, and I do enjoy the insight and stories that come out.  I'm sure we've all been through some tough times in marathons, but this is another level it seems.  Courtney even said something about that she has ran out of water on occasion, but she just treats that as a mental challenge that she can overcome, whereas others may crack at something like that.  I know if I miss a water station that can play on my mind until the next one, and even then I worry that it may impact me later in the marathon, but she seems to put it out of her mind and grind it out.  At one of the 200+ mile races she won, she was asked if she considered dropping out at any point.  She just looked a bit confused at the question, laughed and said "No".  She then went on to say that even if she had to do a death march to the finish, she would have done so, and this is someone who is at the very top of her game.  She genuinely seems very interested in trying to find what her physical and mental limits are.  The interview was about 3 years ago and she hadn't long since left her day job, but she did seem a bit bemused about some of the questions she was asked.  When Joe Rogan asked something like "you do realise what you've done is very, very special, don't you?" she looked embarrassed.  I think she just felt she was a normal person physically, but she did recognise she was very tough mentally.

    It's the same when a couple of years ago I went down the rabbit hole of really looking into the Barkley Marathons - I think the documentary that came out about that is probably my favourite running-related film.  It's the same RD as the Backyard Ultra that Rcouture mentioned and I just love the stories that come out about the individuals/characters.
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Have you watched unbreakable? Its about WS100 and a few of the runners involved,I really enjoyed it.I must admit I've got an inkling to go longer soon,think its because theres even less faster stuff needed.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, I haven't seen that one yet, but it's on the list.  I'll check it out :)  Interesting about your thoughts of going longer!  Do you have an event in mind?
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - you could certainly improve on that 6 hour PB when you feel like it, but it was a good opportunity to go further than marathon point which is all about training the mind just as much as the body.   

    The further the distance then the more the runner relies on strong mental attitude, which is partly why Courtney is so successful.   I've found in ultras there is little thought about stopping and not finishing, it's usually circumstances such as illness/injury/pain that forces the runner to stop in an ultra.  
    Courtney was the outright winner of that 240 mile ultra, brilliant running but not that unusual for a woman to win outright.    I'm sure as the distance increases the physical differences between men and women becomes irrelevant.   You will often seen in 24 hour races, women placed very highly.

    Ian - entries are open for next year's Belfast to Dublin, 173km, if you fancy it.  ;)  Might be a possibility as if travel to Ireland is still banned travel to Northern Ireland might be OK.   Maybe try something a bit shorter first though.   ;)   If you want road ultras, very few in this country but several in Ireland when travel restrictions are lifted.

    Ian Sharman has had great success at WS, he was/is a member of UK 100 Marathon Club.
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    Shades - Yes I assumed it would take a while to regain the fitness especially since I basically only have one year of running base and thought running age plays a role in how long it takes to get back to par. 

    I’ve received another email from Runthrough who seem adamant that their race is going to happen on the 20th. I have no idea how they can be so confident when it’s not in their hands but whatever. I’m just running easy MAF anyway and it’ll be a pleasant surprise if it’s confirmed. 
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    It's a bit colder today, Rcouture - had to dig the arm warmers out!

    11 miles for me - down to Tooting, along to Figges Marsh then up to Streatham where I had another go at Hill Path (I didn't push, just wanted to see how the hamstring handled it) and back via Tooting Common. Rained during the last couple of miles - it was fine but very wet and quite cold. I felt OK though - no major pains although my left knee had a little twinge. Nothing to worry about I think, though.
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    Cal - Yeah I’m waiting for the rain to clear before going out. I’ve nabbed your route on Strava as I do feel that in theory I should vary my runs even if I really can’t be bothered. I just enjoy my usual route through the common so struggle to get enthusiastic about running elsewhere. I’m a sad creature of habit plus I need my daily nature hit. I don’t have a problem with motivation to go out so will change if/when I do. 
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    Well Wimbledon Common is big - lots of paths to explore - so you could vary it within the common quite easily. See if you can find the Alps, the Rifle Butts and the Toast Rack.
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