Shades Marathon Training

SHADES

1SteveMac said:

All this talk of DD has got me thinking!!!

That's great news      Big G will let us all know when entries open, should be later this month.   

It's a race that would suit you.  You've done hilly ultras before.

Cal Jones

Out of interest, what sort of gradients are we talking about? (Just curious really).

Opted to rest and do a 4 mile walk today. Another dodgy night - woke up four or five times. Not sure what's going on with that - no real reason for it (although a few bodyparts do ache at night).
Weather grey and colder than yesterday but less windy/rainy. Tomorrow looks better.

Cal Jones

https://www.boltonmarathon.com/the-routes/?fbclid=IwAR1QmLq657d8jKN1kvucPVhBb4EVoni1tgXF2bd-wIPFmd5zIoXIrEwUtcQ

This (if it happens) looks like a good prep marathon for DD...(checking the Strava).

SHADES

Cal - Bolton would be good DD preparation even though Strava elevation could be exaggerated.

Tomorrow when I'm back on my PC I have a route of DD, I'll put the link up.  A few of the hills are too severe/long to run.   But the downhills are what trashes the legs, I get DOMS like nothing I've ever had after DD.  There's one short section of a downhill that makes my ears pop, I think that corner is a 25% drop.

SHADES

Cal - lots of route data here.   I laughed at the amount of flat 

https://www.plotaroute.com/mobile/routeprofile/725703

Ian5

Cal-I'd forgotten about Bolton,might enter that if it goes ahead and I do DD.
For me it was just the constant up and downhill,for someone who doesn't have hills that long it was brutal,if they were just small ups and downs it wouldn't be too bad.I just looked at mine again on strava,and I was ok until the hill out of Ashburton and never managed to get going again,that was a long 20 miles 

1SteveMac

Maybe I won't consider it then after reading those comments about the hills 

Big_G

Cal, I think I've probably posted this before but the *downhill* bit near 20 miles was unrunnable for me, as well as lots of the uphills  The thing is, if you don't look at the scale, seeing it like this from 20 miles onwards doesn't make it look too bad, but it's all challenging.  I remember us having a discussion about Liverpool marathon one time, and I remember commenting that that's basically flat in comparison to this.  It's one of those moments that I remember when I was timekeeping one year at the marathon point and seeing the leader come through in around 2:45ish making it look easy - just incredible.

SHADES

Big G - that downhill at 20 miles is the hill into Widecombe isn't it?   One year a farmer was bringing a herd of lively cows up the hill as we were going down which made it a bit more challenging.     Scared a few of the runners too.

Then at 21/22 miles as we get back up onto the more there's often a headwind too. 

Cal Jones

I don't like running steep downhills - even 10% gives me pause though I will do it (slowly). I remember when I first did Canonbie Road and got to the top and then saw the 18% downhill on the other side, I just went "nope!" and walked down it.
Somehow I don't think I'd enjoy DD.
Bolton looks pretty challenging - it's not so much the big hill at mile 6 as the fact miles 20-24 are pretty much all uphill, even if it's not steep. At that point in a marathon, it's not what you want.
I think at this point, when I may only have a year or two of improving my PB, I will stick to PB-possible courses. I'll not rule it out completely as there may not be many options early next year, but it's definitely not high up on my list of potential marathons.

Robert OHara

Steve iDD sounds brilliant, hoping to get to do it soon

Cal hope you have some more luck sleeping, hopefully things change soon.  Bolton defo doesn't look PB potential.

Big G I've only done hills off road, can imagine the impact on the quads on the downhills on road be quite testing.

Not a pleasant surprise in my pay packet, I assumed we'd hit target last month but didn't so no bonus.  Also found out I wont get my bonus next month either.  Put any black friday purchases on hold.

7 miles this even, including a run round panshanger parkrun... just me and the headtorch was an enjoyable run seeing a few eyes in bushes look at me.

SHADES

Cal - when you're ready the hills of DD will be waiting    Nothing wrong with walking down the hills.  Ultra running is totally different than any other racing, it has a unique camaraderie, not about times and running against each other but running with each other.

If your target for now is marathon PB's then perhaps you should be racing hilly marathons too, it will make you stronger and faster and a flat marathon will feel a lot easier and that PB a lot more achievable.   A couple of short ultras will help too.  IMHO one of the biggest mistakes made by those chasing marathon PB's is avoiding the more challenging races.   A course doesn't need to be flat to be a PB course.

I quite fancy doing Bolton but not keen on having to collect race number the day before as it's a long drive from here and I'd rather drive most of the way the day before and the last bit on race morning.   I might contact the RO about that when I decide to do it.   I'm impressed with the amount of effort they are putting into their race organisation, should be a very successful event.


Steve - you love a good hill 


Robert - bad luck on the lack of bonus for the rest of the year.

Whose eyes were looking at your from the bushes?   Other parkrun runners? 


7 miles today, nice morning, a bit milder.  Definitely feeling back on form now, won't bother with a rest day this week as right now I don't feel I need it.

TR

Shades - i note that Gloucester has moved to feb, is now covid safe, and is at castle coombe motor circuit.

SHADES

TR - that's interesting, is this the Beyond Limitations RO or the Gloucester City RO's?

SHADES

I've just found it, Beyond Limitations.   They're doing a 50k too, that would suit me well.

TR

No idea, i had kept an eye on it previously as an early 2021 option, and i note it has now become covid secure. I think its the same folks that had a january race scheduled.

SHADES

TR - I've had a look at the website.  No refunds if we're in lockdown but entry transferred to another event, valid for 2 years, so I'm happy with that.   

I'm not that keen racing in the winter but as I've decided to follow the Connemara Ultra training plan running the 50k would get me out of doing a 30 mile training run on my own.

I've done a few of their events before.   They usually hold an event at Boddington, Gloucestershire in June each year.

Although he may not look it now, but NW the RO is a former winner of Berlin Marathon, 2:16 ish I think. 

1SteveMac

Big G - Yeah I remember running a downhill stretch on the Jersey ultra I did, quite steep, but defo messed up my quads on that section!!
Shades - I might like hills better if I trained for them!! But to be honest I don't think I'd ever be running them anyway, it's a good point to take on fluids and food if you have to walk them.

Today was tough, 5*1k off 90s rest then 4*200m off 60s rest. Reps of 3:47/57/51/57/55 then 38/42/38/37, 1k reps were meant to be 10k pace, but was closer to HM pace on most of them, but I guess that is where I am now, so will work with that. Happy to have hit sub 5 min/mile pace for the last 200m rep though!! Just over 10 miles for the day.

SHADES

Steve - one of the advantages of DD is that you can send out drinks/food to any of the drink stations.   Before I ran DD I marshalled the event a couple of times, first time I was at the drink station at 27 miles and I carefully inspected the food/drinks sent out by the runners as at that time I hadn't run an ultra so was intrigued.   Some had almost sent out a pack lunch, sandwich and a Kit Kat etc.   Couple of years later there was a runner from Big G's club that had arranged to meet his wife at 14 miles with a hot pasty she had just purchased in Ashburton, 14 miles is into what I consider to be the toughest hill of the race. 

You haven't lost much fitness with your time off for wedding/honeymoon.

Big_G

Steve, I've only done DD once, but in my post on here back when I did it I commented the same as you; i.e., I was getting food/fluids down me while walking the hills was a big thing.  Also "walking the hills" may make it sound like I was out for an afternoon stroll but it wasn't like that as I was powering up them as quickly as I could.  I think you'd do very well if you did the event.

TR, interesting about that race.  Something I may consider if I get back to running soonish.  I also saw they've got a 10K and 10M in January.  It's drivable for me on the morning, which is another advantage for me.

TR

Shades- looks like you're considering Glos then. Theres not much else to pick from as all the spring 1/2s have been cancelled. I might go for the glos mara.

SHADES

Big G - as long as the weather is good then the 10k and/or 10 miles would be fast courses.

TR - yes, I am considering the marathon or 50km.   Although it's multiple laps the other events, Goodwood, Bedford etc are much further away from me, think this race venue is about a 2 hour drive whereas Goodwood is about 3.5 hours drive each way.
I've pinned the website so might enter this week.   But I am determined to follow this ultra training plan and this would help me see where I am at that stage.

I have run a couple of their 50k races before, at Boddington.   As NW used to manage the England Ultra running team I got to run with the country's elite all really friendly.  They used to use the event as a qualifier for European championships etc.   

TR

Shades - ill see how i fee in a few weeks then. Thatd be 100 miles from me, so same as yeovil. Could be a bit parky that time of year......im also in for Dorney 5 weeks later, but could use Gloc as a build up.

SHADES

TR - 112 miles from me.   I don't like winter conditions for running or driving so that's a risk at that time of year.     But if Connemara does go ahead in April I don't currently have a marathon to run before it and I'd really like a race pre Connemara.

You still on for Goodwood in December?

TR

No, im on day 12 of being stuck indoors.....the covid bus arrived. I think my wife caught it round the school (works part time), she tested positive and has been pretty poorly (very similar tale to kelly holmes - dizzy, nausea, headache, couldnt stand up), my 19 yr old who commutes in to uni daily then had sore throat and fever overnight, he tested positive too, but has pretty much been ok apart......i have only had very very minor cold symptoms, but i got a test too and was also positive. Ive been turboing easy as my RHR has been low etc (i think i trained harder on the turbo the previous weekend but thought she had a cold then, i was probably infectious too by then). But i havnt run for 12 days. Im allowed out Thursday, but have deferred my GW place to be on the safe side. I'll ease back into it over a few weeks.

SHADES

TR - oh no, hope you're all recovering well and you bounce back fitness wise with no aftereffects.
Interesting that your RHR has remained low throughout.
Just as well you could defer Goodwood, there may be no races at the end of the lockdown anyway.

Can't be easy having to stay in when you're used to running daily.

Cal Jones

Shades, I don't mind a bit of undulation - I PB'd at Chester and Yorkshire and they're not pancake flat. I was close to a PB at Liverpool the third time before I hit the headwind, too. I also don't mind running hills as you know but it takes me a good while to recover from a marathon so if I'm only going to be doing 2 or 3 a year, I want them to potential PB courses. (I'd make an exception for Giant's Head though, as I want that medal with the willy on it. )
I'm not ruling Bolton out entirely but issues like the race number are a bit off-putting.
Regardless, I am down for Richmond at the end of March - not sure about PB potential there as, while it's flat, it's also partly on tow path so I could get sore feet. Still, I'd prefer that to laps. I was not enjoying Dorney when I dropped out.

Sleep is still poor but the rest day yesterday meant I had energy for a faster run today. I did 8 miles, with the first five easy/steady and then the last three fartlek-style. I was very happy to beat my PB on the road behind my house at the end of the run (I must admit I really enjoy the segments aspect of Strava).

TR

Shades - i wouldnt know id had it. I dont usually monitor RHR routinely, just once in a while. It was a few beats higher last weekend but i was training fine.......GW probably wont happen anyway in Dec, but they let me defer once i mentioned covid.....ill ease the running up over a couple of weeks........being housebound is awful, i used to dog walking, going to work, cycling, running. To be fair, the being stuck indoors probably makes me feel worse than any minor symptoms......i have 2 days to go.......

SHADES

Cal - did you enter Giants Head? I can't remember.

Chester and Yorkshire are flat marathons.  I meant more undulating events such as Windermere, North Dorset, Langdale, Snowdonia, Cornish, Connemara, Dingle etc.,  more challenging courses.

TR - 2 days will soon pass.

I do record my RHR daily, I've had a few fluctuations but have put that down to gym training.. when the gym was open, I do miss it.

Cal Jones

I did but was a long way back on the waiting list.

Missing the gym too.