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HADD Training Method
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Good running VT. Looking at your schedule I guesshaving a day off before and after the LSR is planned? rest before/recover after?? I ask as many people now follow plans where the day before the LSR is a hard session to ensure you do the LSR on tired legs - I tried it and ended up not doing several LSR's cos I was too tired and came down with a case of CBA.
DrDan, great pace looking at your time of 30 years ago! Sadly I won't be posting a '30 years ago comparisson' as I've only been running 2 years and 55 already.
Moks, In my book your flying already
So, a question for you, today was my 4th subLT and have built from 4x5, 4x6, 12x12 and 2x15. I managed to complete the 2x15 but pace was down on the previous week.
I split the 15 min sessions into 5 minute sections and rather than one 15 min average I saw how I faded. The first 3 were mainly uphill then back down for the second.
8:27 pace 80% AHR
8:37 pace 83% AHR
9:12 pace 83% AHR
10 min jog rest
8:27 pace 83% AHR
8:37 pace 84% AHR
8:32 pace 84% AHR
So, (finally) to my Q... should I repeat this week until there is less drift in the pace? It is undulating but gain most of that back. Or, should I go forward and 1x25mins @80-83% next week?
Oh, the identical paces for the first 2 sections are purely coincidental
Ecce, don't worry - the phased approach to 80% runs are fine and I would say the main reason for this approach is to allow the legs (and mind) cope with the longer spells of moderately hard running. I find that after a break, the 80% doesn't improve until I get to the longer single efforts, probably upwards of 50mins. So if I were you I would plough on with your approach, and be patient, the 80% improvement will flow when you get to 70mins.
Ecce, x2 with Brian
I will be looking to see less of an effort for the same ish pace, just wondering how low
before it ( HR ) plateaus out and I can add more pace.
Its more of a information gathering rather then a outright training plan. I will use info at a later date and build on it.
Thanks guys, makes perfect sense (I think).
I'll carry on with the weekly increase at 80-83% and worry about pace after (say) 50-60 mins continuous running (probably around the end of Jan 15).
As I'll probably be doing the same out-n-back course or TM I'll be able to ignore the 'undulations' when collating results for each week.
Easy 60 mins today on the TM, 5.8 miles (10:20mm) @69.15% AHR. The increase in HR was a much shallower increase today so happy with that
DD, nice work in the 10 mile race!
Not a bad effort at all coming off 2 consecutive marathons. I'd say you are in a good place to start rebuilding the base for the fast stuff next spring.
Andi, I do deliberately stack rest days before and after the long run. But not just to cater to the LR per say; I find it hard to recover from (and be fresh for) the subLT sessions. I really need that Monday off to absorb the whole week, but Saturday is really important too because you've just run 4 consecutive days w/2 subLT sessions in that span. No sure how else I could structure it. Maybe to take rest day Thrus/Monday? Also, with the HADD training it is hard to get striders built in, which I think have helped me a lot w/my economy/speed. I guess I'd have to throw them in on Tues or Wed, but that is right after or right before a subLT. Not a lot of flexibility.
Brian, how goes it? Still running?? Hope so!
This week I did 10M yesterday (felt good) and did 7.6 today w/7 striders. It's been windy and cold here (yesterday I ran at 9 pm...25F w/18 mph wind)...winter has arrived.
I usually take Saturday off due to spending most of it running my kids here and there ... and since I did P&D for London, I've also adopted the "Monday rest day" as well (which has continued for the past 12 months). So snap VT
. Agree that strides are hard to fit in ... I wanted to do them in this cycle but the legs were never in the mood.
No running so far this week ... been way too busy! Should get in my Sunday run though and will have a ticking over week next week before starting the new season on December 1st.
DrDan, Congrats on the 30 year improvement
VT, I'm pretty low at the moment. I fell whilst out running on holiday 11th November. I have badly damaged my hamstring on my right leg.I hit a raised flag with my left whilst jogging downhill, and kicked out with my right, right at the end of my run. I was 200yds away from the apartment! From reading the internet, it is a grade 3 strain, and could take 12 weeks!! I am in constant pain and the whole leg is bruised and swelled right down to the ankle. Obviously doing the ice thing but it's not easy whilst at work. I will post a pic of the hammy shortly.
Brian - sounds nasty, good luck with the recovery
Thanks mace.
Jeez Brian, that looks a right mess! Fingers crossed for a swift and full recovery!
Hang in there mate ... all will sort itself out in the goodness of time. Try to keep sane by spending 12 weeks building up your upper body strength?
Get well soon Brian
Get well soon Brian
Thanks fellas. Just about retaining my sanity, for now anyway. As you quite rightly point out DrDan, for a grade 3 strain it could be 12 weeks (or surgery - gulp!).
See fizz on Monday, hopefully the swelling will be minimal and they can assess it properly.
Hope you guys have a good weekend and do an extra mile for me...
12 weeks Brian? as DrD say, maybe us ethe time to improve in other areas so it will be easier to return
2 questions tonight
1. Strides - what do you do? I did ask Mr Google but came up wiyh anything from 20 seconds to a minute+ and everything from standing rest to jogs for various amounts of time - confusing.
2. Whilst a sub 4 is (hopefully) on the cards in the not too distant future there is the small matter of a sub 4:30 first! Now, I'm only doing runs up to an hour right now but 10:18mm's is fast beomming my 'easy' sub 72%AHR pace.~Bearing in mind that pace is a 4:29 marathon pace should I be running even slower or leave things as they are and not even think about marathon pace until the Spring? (1st Marathon is currently late July).
Brian Jesus ! Hope you recover quickly
Ecce train to HR and forget about goal paces - you can pick what level of pain you want to experience some time in June
Four weeks + off with pneumonia here...I think I'm just about through it and have done a few 5k+3' jogs.
Brian, damn man, that is the worst hammy injury I've seen. My Dad slipped while bowling once and his was nasty, but you take the cake. Gutted for you. I don't understand these cruel twists of fate. Here's hoping it's less severe than it looks. Let us know how you progress.
Speaking of bad breaks, good to see you back in action finally Tek! You've been dealing w/that for a while now so glad you are out there running again.
Andi, for striders, I just try to find some telephone poles. In the US, they are spaced about 50 meters apart. So sprinting for 2 of them will give you your ~ 100M strider distance. To do these, be sure you've warmed up well for a mile or 2, then start by gradually building up to nearly full speed and then once you've gotten there just "float" at that top end speed for the rest of the distance. You don't have to run as fast as possible, but fast nonetheless (not sure how to describe this effort). These will probably feel awkward and uncomfortable at first, but soon that will change. Focus on very fast cadence and good form above all else. Don't overstride...just fast, happy steps. If done right, you'll be surprised at how fast your cadence will be (if you have a garmin that can measure cadence with foot pod it can give you some more cool data that you crave!
). Your HR should quickly climb to about 78-83% by the end of one of these (and depending your fitness, can go even higher which probably isn't optimal). After each one, just slowly jog until your HR is back down to 70% or lower...once you get there off you go again. Rinse and repeat. Maybe shoot do to 4-5 at the beginning. Then increase from there. I find 7-10 is a good number once you are used to them.
So far this week I've done 10M, 7.5 w/ 7 striders, 7.5, and 9.25 today. All easy efforts and legs feeling pretty good. Will shoot for 12-14 Sunday to cap off my first proper mileage week in a while.
Wow, 51 degrees today and calm. Shorts and T shirt weather and got 12.5M in. First 7 easy...8th upped pace a bit, then fast 9 - 12 (6:45 pace and HR in the 80-83% range). Felt good to kick off some rust. I seem to go through this cycle where after a marathon I feel like racing every run the first wk or two back...then I shift to my body only wanting slower, easy runs. Today was good to see my body accept some faster stuff again. And I am way ahead of my recovery compared to the spring marathon. Direct evidence on just how much you can trash your body in harsh race conditions. Cold weather marathons = good (for me!).
My 7 yr old decided to run w/me when I got home. Tacked on another .8 miles at 11:43 m/m pace...she was chatting and bouncing along in her own little happy cloud.
Txs for the tip Teknik and love the 'choose your pain' idea though being a wuss it won't be too painful I hope
Fingers crossed the pneumonia is all cleared up - it will probably take a good wee while to get back up to speed
VT, thanks for the stride/r info, much appreciated and may well give it a go over the coming days. Currently have a cold so not run since Friday and probably won't be out again until Wednesday as am off to the mainland tomorrow.
Sounds like your ready for the next round of base building and keep an eye on VT the Younger, sounds like a great pace to bounce along at
Teknik, Hope the pneumonia is gone and forgotten. Don't expect the numbers to be normal yet though, nice and patient.
VT, Sounds like you are back to normal. Nice little jaunt with VT jnr too. Cracking explanation of strides btw!
Ecce, hope the cold clears up quickly.
Fizz says grade 2 tear, 6-12 weeks. So, hopefully I'll be somewhere near exercising again in a month. I can now stop icing and start stretching because it is healing, and can't let it heal short. Bloody painful though!! Next visit Friday.... hoping she can then find out where the tear is exactly - too much pain in too many areas as yet.
Hi all, this site is like a roller coaster, some times your up and some times your down.
But its great to know you can get moral support here.
5 miles tonight in a time of 40.25sec AHR 78% = 125BPM.
HR going down slowly
Brian, glad it appear less severe than suspected (although it still stinks!
). Get your Wolverine on and heal up fast.
Andi, hope you are feeling better!
Roy, yep, all the highs and lows here. Glad to hear the fitness is kicking in. I've got the same thing happening out here. This week I've gotten in 11M w/10 striders Tues and 10.5M easy today. I'm off all week so hope to see mileage in the 50s. Legs have felt incredibly good so far this week.
Lots of snow falling outside so first snowy run tomorrow too (and Turkey here in the States). Gobble, gobble.
Happy Thanksgiving VT!
Brian - not good news but glad it's not a grade 3. You'll be reet for the start of 2015.
I haven't run since the "end-of-season" 10 mi race on 16th ... very busy at work and have also been fighting off a virus, so at least it's all come together. 1st December is the start of the new regime
. Honest
.
6miles of 89%max cruise intervals (60s jog recoveries) today. Doable, but I start to approach them with a little trepidation
Txs guys, I tried a run on Tuesday but struggled really badly so not been out since - think a good week of recovery is in order
The nightly drams are helping somewhat mind 
Roy, what pace do you need to be at with that HR to have fully recovered?
VT, whats the snow like at yours? seen some deep stuff on the olde TV.
Dr.Dan, 1st December seems like a good day to get back out there
Nayan, what length are the cruise intervals? (it's going to be a long time before my HR monitor sees 89% for more than a second I think).
Andy, love your self portrait, man of many talents.
Its only a try out and see session. 4 more weeks left of 8 weeks . I just want to see how far it ( HR ) drops / levels out before I "could " start to introduce more speed ,
I run this session on a treadmill so all things are equal 1 mile w/up 5 at 80%or less 1/2 mile w/d. I am more interested in HR or % of HR, knowing the pace is just extra information.
Does this make sense ?
Txs Roy, makes perfect sense though am guessing the 'extra information' helps complete the data
Will probably be doing more TM stuff from now till Spring, one of the main benefits of it for me is that you can replicate the runs much more easily.
As for the selfie, thanks, I did a few silly sp's a few years ago, that shot probably hurt more than setting fire to myself but not for as long lol. I need to dust off the old camera again sometime soon.
So, only 150 miles in total during Oct and Nov due to 2 x marathon recovery and then my end-of-season break (2 weeks of no running). I need to bag 130 mile this month to make it to 1700 miles for the first time (previous highest was 1691 in 2011). And as it's now 1st December, time to start the winter training.
Last 2 months have been my only sub 100 miles/month all year (marathon recovery and this damn cold).
89 miles for November in 14:36:35 at 9:51mm's and my first ever sub 10 mm monthly average
at 72.34% AHR.
Dr.Dan, that leaves me 130 miles in December to make 1700 miles for the year but guess I'll have been running for a lot more time than you this year? 2013 was my first full year of running at (just) 1019 miles.
Am hoping for my second run in 10 days later if this man flu lets me.
Andi - so far it's been 1573.5 miles in 229 hours, 7 minutes and 30 seconds.
And so it begins .. 3.3 miles in just under 30 minutes. It felt almost like I hadn't been for a run for a couple of weeks
. Wait a minute...