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Sub 3:15 - FLM 2009
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I don't think you necessarily need to go under 1.30 to get sub 3.15 (though it would be nice!). I've run sub 3.15 and a couple of times got close to it off no more than 1.32 half and 41/42 10k times. I do speedwork and hill work, but the really crucial runs are the long run - at least two of around 24 miles with another 2 or 3 at 22 and others at 20 - and the marathon pace run of up to 13 or 14 miles. I don't think speedwork on a track is absolutely necessary either in marathon training, except maybe as a sharpener for three or four weeks immediately prior to the race - consistent hill work is just as good, as are regular threshold or fartlek sessions.
Sim
For a 3:15 marathon you need to be running 7:30 miles, right?
So, you are saying get a mid-week run in of (say) 10-15 miles at that pace, and a really long run at the weekend. What sort of pace would you run that at?
I totally agree with Sim that you don't need a sub 1:30 HM necessarily (my PB set last October was 1:33:08 - Selby, very flat and fast), but the long runs are the key. I did 5 x 20-milers, one 21-miler and a 22-miler before FLM, and i think it made the biggest difference to my time. I started off doing speedwork and tempo runs but that quickly went to pot when my long runs hit 20 miles.
Good luck with your marathon CG. If you don't go sub 3:15 this time we can spur each other on for FLM as we seem to be practically identical speed wise! I was planning Berlin in a couple of weeks but managed to injure myself and missed the 2 biggest training mileage weeks, and am still not really up and running yet so have decided to pull out.
In my experience the majority of girls get commensurately better the longer the distance. They can achieve relatively excellent marathon or 20 mile times off 'inferior' 10k, 10 mile or half-m times. My clubmate Joanne ran 3:14 in FLM 2005 off a 1:31 half and a 70 min 10 miler. All the blokes I know of similar ability over the shorter distances ran between 3:20 & 3:30 for the marathon.
Conclusion.. go for it girls {o:
Good luck with the weekend runs everyone ...anyone racng??
Interesting discussion on times and how they correspond over different distances. For what it's worth, I ran a 3.15 mara when my HM PB was 1.30. Now I've run a 3.11 mara off a 1.24 HM so it looks like there's considerable room for improvement over the longer distance.
23 miles last week + 1 day strenuous hillwalking + 2 days strenuous digging in the garden. Does that count as cross training?
Good luck to all with training and racing thjis w/e.
The marathon is 26.21875 miles (those extra 33 yards will kill you every time)
This gives a 7.259023 m/m for a 3:14:59.
I've always understood that long runs should be done at 90s per mile slower than marathon pace, or slower. It's supposed to be about time on your feet - as much about conditioning your mind to the rigours of the marathon distance as it is about building up the legs. In practice, and particularly when running with clubmates, I often find myself doing long runs too fast, so that they become another marathon pace run. Similarly, the official marathon pace run midweek is often more like a too-long tempo run. No discipline, that's my trouble.
I've got a 10k on Sunday, so I should have some idea where all this is getting me shortly!
Long run pace.. my V60 clubmate did his long runs about 20 secs per mile slower than his anticipated race pace. One of his runs was 23 miles @ 7:02 pace. Didn't do him any harm - he won his category in 2:55.
Conversely, I remember a chap on the forum who didn't do any speed work and ran very few races. His long runs were 4-4.30 hours steady. He broke 3 hours regularly.
!!
Sounds like one tough dude
Anyone doing 23 miles at 7:02 pace in training is well and truly on for a sub 3, which requires 6:52 pace. I'd say that the 2:55 was on the conservative side of his capability too.
As for the other chap, well I think that we're only hearing part of the story. Plod out a 4:30 once a week with little else to show for it and I predict that will be your pace on the day. I think that I'm in that plodding rut at the moment. Not enough miles to call it base training, not enough pace in the mix to call it quality.
Hard work required.
Today's fell race fitted the bill then.
I'll sleep well tonight.
K9 - I'm with you - us girls need to stick together. I think I need to rethink my long runs too as they are so easy in training then on the day I am in agony from about 16 miles.
more eager than ever to run sub 3.15 next year
did the mabelthorpe marathon yesterday
less said the better but it got me back into starting serious training
the plan now is to keep this base Ive built till end of year then increase the training
am going back to my schedule from 2005 which was the hardest training I have ever done but it produced the required result
so keep clear
TC, good to see you back.
Blisters, sage advice as ever, whatever ingredients you put in the stir fry influences the final outcome. Just training loads of slow miles = a fine ability to run a load of slow miles.
Long run pace debate: I use my HRM to keep to long run effort rather than a specific pace, sometimes find it hard to run 'slow' enough to do MP + 90 secs for example. So my aim is to keep an average at or below 70% for long runs whilst ocassionally upping the effort in the last few miles to test the fitness.
Well done CG, very impressive run under the circumstances.
Up at 45.20 for a 10k-ish tempo run this morning. Felt a bit lacklustre .. might be something to do with the binge drinking last night ...ooops!
Had a disappointing 10k the other week, 42 minutes in what was very humid, windy conditions on a wet and twisty course.
Still unsure which if any marathon to aim for a time at, as I am sure there will be ultras I choose to do as well. Currently a toss-up between Shakespeare and Copenhagen. Still not entered London yet! Will do the Clarendon Way offroad marathon as a slow training run on October 1st though.
20m in 2hr40 y'day but severe cramp towards the end, nearly fell off the towpath into the canal. Which would have been embarassing. Half mara this w/e at Ashbourne- anyone else in that neck of the woods?
That will be a callenge this week off a 2 fat zeroes start.
Looks like I need a quality long run...
They are the sort of thing where you look to do it at a hard pace, rather than a leisurely Sunday jolly.
TMW and Poacher, you sound like you are piling in the quality miles, stick at it and good luck with your up and comings!
Aber, you must win most versatile prize on this thread, hate to think how my hamstrings would react to a 100m relay leg the day after a long run with a 1500m thrown in for good measure 8-0
I wouldn'tworry about your mileage too much YM, I rarely get above 30 a week, maybe up to 35 in mara training mode.
Your training sounds like its going well Aberdonian, I'm quite jealous of you running Loch Ness, but I promised my wife I would only run one marathon a year, and to be honest its probably best for me.
I've got a club handicap race tonight ..haven't done one before. Slowest goes off first and everyone else plays catch-up according to their time handicap. Can't decide whether to go off hard from the start, or hang back a bit, let someone faster get past, then try and hang on to them. Its only meant to be a bit of fun, but hey, the old competitive beast in me is bound to make an appearance! Any advice?
I''ve just finished Pfitzinger/Douglas's book Advanced Marathoning, lots of interesting stuff but the schedules start at 55mpw so out of the question for me. Anyone actually followed this book?
I'm also (I assume) a bit younger than most people on the thread at 24, not sure how much if any significance that has though.
I've posted my entry.
I've had a long run (half Yorkshireman at the weekend).
First 'speedwork' session on Tuesday night for twelve months(ish) Pulled up on the track last October when the recent long term injury run started). Four 400's at 81's each.
3 mile tempo with w/up & w/down tonight.
Running trip this weekend doing 50 plus miles of the Southern upland way.
Fingers crossed I can stay injury free.
Err...that's it!