Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Thanks for the comments all, I can't say I'm happy but it's just one of those things. I suppose the attraction of the marathon as a challenge is that it finds you out if something isn't right.

    Johnas - fancy setting up a support group for 33:15 10K runners who can't break 2:40? There can't be too many of us. Thanks again for the coke and apologies for being anti-social at the pub.  I was looking forward to having a pint and shooting the breeze with you and others, but in the end I just wanted to curl into a corner and lie down.

    Dean - I'd love to do a post-mortem of this, but I'm honestly not sure what was up.  There just isn't an obvious reason.  But you are right - it has actually been a trend with longer races this year - Reading Half - poor; Finchley 20 - poor; VLM - poor (OK, I had reasons for the first two).  Yet I've PB'ed at 10K and have been hitting paces on short speedwork like 400s in the last couple of weeks I haven't hit before.  All this despite having done more miles, more long runs, more medium long runs and much less speedwork than I've done in previous campaigns.  By rights I should have more endurance and less speed than before not the other way around.  It's just confusing.

    My thinking now is that I'm just not a natural marathoner.  My marathon is always likely to lag behind my 10K, so my best shot at a fast marathon is to have an even faster 10K.

    Once again to Lit though, that was a mightily impressive performance yesterday, and you must now be in a position to rewrite all those PBs.   Very well-deserved.

  • Dachs, reading into your training reports over the past few months, I'd say that you were already physically drained and have been for quite a while.

    Read back far enough and you'll find the turning point. 

  • Phil, sorry to hear it went wrong but like your training, it was a decision based on good sense. Live to fight another day.

    Well done Lit on a fantastic time! Rest and kick hell out of those shorter distances.

    Dachs, you've felt under par for a while, maybe a bit of over training? General fatigue? Or was it a self fulfilling prophecy where you expected it to go sour? BUT - this a just a few questions to help the post-mortem. I actually think that you ran a fantastic time and it going a tad wrong and only dropping 7min, thus securing another champ time is quite simply awesome.

    84 miles in 8 days and feeling good. Rest today with an hour massage, that brought tears and naughty words from me! Painful!

  • Hindsight is always 20/20 Dachs. Like Mo, you can't have it all.

    Apologies SS for having 2 marathons near the 5 hour mark. I'm ashamed. imageimage

  • Physically drained or not (and that is a distinct possibility - I'm still not fully over Abingdon), 2.42 is a bloody good time Dachs, let's not forget that. May be not quite on a level with you best 10k and half, but it's a darn sight easier to lose a couple of minutes on a marathon than 20 secs on a10k and that is all we are talking about. Just the sun and wind yesterday could account for that over 26 miles! It is too soon for you to be able to look at it with any reasonable sense of perspective but that will come. Don't be down hearted about it, there really is no need YOU DID A GREAT TIME. The biggest pain in the arse about not hitting you marathon target is that it is not easy to just put it behind you another one the next week!

  • Bus, I'd wager you've been racing over trained and knackered for so long you can't remember what its like to race when in top form.

    Wind, rain, sun. Makes no difference. When really fit and flying you can run through a brick wall, and some. 

    I remember that feeling and Dachs knows the feeling. Its a question of power. Yes, Dachs ran 2:42, which for most of us is fast, but he was only running along in the latter stages not powering through the field going faster and faster. Big difference.

  • To be honest, it's probably quite generous to even describe the latter stages as 'running along'.

    I do know the feeling Ric talks about.  That's how Eastleigh felt 3 weeks ago.  Haven't felt it in a marathon yet!  I'd love to know the secret to hitting the thin line between preparing yourself and fatiguing yourself in marathon training, but I suppose the vast majority of other runners could say that too.  Maybe the Hanson method might have something to recommend it in my case, shorter but faster.

    Very rudely though Bus, I have overlooked your fell race.  Well done on getting through it at least within spitting distance of your best time.  I am a dreadful descender of hills, but even I know that to do it properly you've got to absolutely trust that your body is going to hold up to the battering and throw caution to the wind.  I can't imagine you can possibly have been able to do that given recent injury woes, so it's no surprise.

  • Iron! Ha ha sorry mate! You weren't saying you were going to run 2:30 though! I genuinely have as much respect for the 5+ hour club as I do anyone else. That's an epic time to be out there! Having not done one yet I can't judge anyone as I might end up doing 5 hours!

    Bus, looks like you got into the northern spirit with the vest! You're up here in the lakes so often, you're an honorary northerner now anyway! image Sounds like a battle against the elements. I love the sound of fell running then you do a race report like that!

  • Hey, all the northerners had their thermals and cags on Stevie! Only other guy I saw in a vest was another soft southerner ina Falmouth Road Runners vest! 

    Cheers Dachs, but the LM is always going to be top billing! You're right Ric, has been a while since I've felt on top form! 

    Beautiful day up here in Cumbria. Early morning run, followed by a long walk with the family in the Coniston fells. I've ended up with a sun burnt neck!

  • If only I could persuade some of you guys to do nothing at all for six weeks, then start again from scratch.

    You'll discover what a peak really is.

  • bus, I missed your fell exploits too.  Looked fun and not much off your PB there.  congrats.

    first track session in 3 weeks.  Did 6*800 + 1*200 for 5kvolume. Off 90 rec.  target was 2.28-30. i hit ave 2.29. With a 29 200 to close.   considering its first time back since injury I'm happy with that, It was harder work than It should have been and I could tell my conditioning wasnt right.  But that will come back quickly I'm sure.  

  • Dean, you fast bastard.

  • Since this thread is now so very quiet, I feel no pressure to keep on topic.  Therefore, this is one for Johnas:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-27023992

  • so, the more beards there are, the less attractive they become - giving clean-shaven men a competitive advantage.

    yet, beards are so 2013 and 'Peak beard' has been and gone so therefore I can expect to be ravaged my women on my way home?

  • I'd say it's a certainty Johnas.  But how will that be any different from your way home any other day?

  • Dachs wrote (see)

    Maybe the Hanson method might have something to recommend it in my case, shorter but faster..

    Sorry to hear it didn't fall into place on the day Dachs. I had 5 weeks to get used to my demise, and set off with a ticking time bomb that blew up on mile 5. Hanson's set me a 2:43 target. 3 hours 19 later I dragged my right leg over the line. Woo hoo.

    I got injured in March with a recurrence of achilles tendenosis, 15 weeks into a Hanson's plan. Should have given up then but Gung-Ho the Physio convinced me to persist (I think Samir used him).  I'm not how much I'd attribute injury to overtraining under Hanson's. It is certainly faster than P&D etc, but not all the plans are shorter. There are some big mileage plans published.

    Anyway, question for Dachs, Bus, PMJ and the other Thames Valley talent. Any recomendations for a Physio in the Maidenheas/Reading/Wycombe/Slough area. I have to give Gung-ho the elbow - I need to run again.

     

  • AR - I use Berkshire Physiotherapy on Wokingham Road in Earley.  I haven't got a lot of experience with physios, but my clubmate, who seems to be some kind of injury magnet swears by them.  Not sure if that's actually a good thing?  But they're friendly, open late for those who work, and know their way around sports injuries.

  • Have you tried the Drummond Clinic in Maidenhead AR? I used them a few years ago now but they not only fixed my injury but diagnosed the root of it and their advice was sound.



    I would have replied earlier but only just got home thanks to the throngs of women throwing themselves at me
  • I use Steve Lodge www.stevelodge.com but he is a manipulator so may not be the best for achilles. 

  • I tend to use the NHS physios in Cressex. They are very good (one of them is an ultra runner) but it is pot luck getting an appointment. 

    Loughrigg fell race this evening from a gloriously sunny Rothay park in Ambleside. Tough but enjoyable out and back race to Loughrigg summit, 4 miles 1000 ft. I dd OK on the ascent, but as usual lost lots of places on the descent, including to the two first place ladies, who both seemed to hardly touch the ground and looked about 14! I managed to stay with the second one onto the last half a mile which is on steep tarmac section before she pulled ahead again when we hit the flat section back in the aprk, as my fatigued legs took their toll and I had nothing left! Overall about 50 secs down on my time two years ago, so not disasterous given Coledale was only last Saturday.

     

  • Almost as enjoyable as the race was the drive back on a fast windy road with no kids in the back, a couple of stops to watch the sunset across Windermere and the Langdale Pikes then a delicious meal of pie and chips, with the pie from a fantastic pie shop in Grange over sands, washed down with a two pint takeaway fresh from the Cartmel brewery, followed by the world famous Cartmel sticky toffee pudding! Knackered and stuffed, but sometimes life is sweet!

  • That second post of yours is much more up my street than pelting round some hills being chicked. Well done on both counts mind. Sounds like you're having a whale of a time.



    40 min threshold run for me tonight and then sausages with cauliflower cheese washed down with a nice 7.4% Double IPA so not a bad evening here either
  • Johnas wrote (see)
    I would have replied earlier but only just got home thanks to the throngs of women throwing themselves at me

    I was clearly doing it completely wrong, running away from you. image

  • That's a pretty robust sounding beer Johnas, nice!

     

  • Having to double post due to Android/Firefox writing everything backwards if I press a return! Coledale results out tonight. I was 69th overall, which means I lost at least 50 places from the top of Grisedale Pike. FFS! Underlines just what a shit descender I am!!! Hey ho, need to move somewhere I can train on the righ terrain I guess!

  • Johnas - I've been sporting a beard since about 2003/04, give or take a few clean shaven spells.

    You're all just copying me.  Clearly.

    I have a swarm of females following me wherever I go.

    That time I sprayed Lynx Africa into my beard nearly ended in disaster.

  • It's actually a great tactic for PB-hunting, Lit - run away from the scary beardy man!

    AR - fair enough, I can't say I'd really looked too much into the Hanson's method, I just had a vague recollection of it being composed of shorter, faster long runs.  Plenty of time for me to reconsider my marathon approach though, although I can already see the pressure developing within the club to get a men's team off the Champ start next year.

    Real shame that your marathon was ruined like that, but well done on at least completing the run and soaking up the atmosphere.  Hopefully you can bounce back at the next one.  I think you need to improve your shorter times though, your upwards conversion is obscenely good!

    Bus - glad you enjoyed your fell racing malarkey and post-run refuelling.  Sounds like you did well considering the continued niggling injury.

    PMJ - a 'manipulator'?  Sounds sinister.

  • AR - it depends on the cause of your achilles problem (if you have a leg length discrepancy you can get achilles issues on the shorter leg apparently), but I use an osteopath who is very good and if the cause is anything structural he'll sort you out. Andy Jackson of Avenue Osteopaths (Reading based). I can also second Dachs' recommendation of Berkshire Physio (though I am not his injury magnet clubmate image ).
    Incidentally, what do you think triggered your tendinosis?

    Dachs - no pressure from here (though it won't stop me pulling your leg about it image ); I spent enough years ignoring the same thing so it would be remiss of me to try to talk somebody else into it. Having said that, you don't need to worry about making a decision until much later in the yearimage

  • TT- hopefully we'll have enough faster runners that I'm not even needed!

  • Thanks chaps - some things to consider there.

    TippTop wrote (see)

    Incidentally, what do you think triggered your tendinosis?

     

    That is up for debate. I currently use Drummond Clinic for any 'ailments'. Once this started up I hobbled to the clinic. First thing was to put me on the treadmill, and they reckoned my left hip was tight, leading to  the right foot getting planted too far in , so putting too much load on the achilles.

    The thing is, I was hobbling and on this video analysis I was limping badly. I don't really value its worth. It might just as easily be as a result of overtraining having moved up to 6 to 7 days running per week, and not noticing the signs early enough


    Things got no better , and I said I want to turn up to VLM 100% fit, or to pull out now if there was no hope. Some rehab exercises plus reduced running put me into a cycle of reinjury and I pretty much limping through 5 weeks to vlm (exactly what I didn't want, but like a muppet went along with it).

    Drummond have been really good in the past, I'm just not convinced the cause and  rehab approach leading up to VLM worked.

     

    Dachs wrote (see)

    I think you need to improve your shorter times though,

    Yes, I agree, but I tend to treat then like the DIY around the house. It is something I ought to do that will benefit me but have a CNBA attitude that needs a kicking first!

     

    I tend to get all injuries to the right side. Last summer I was on a mission to find a phys / chiro / 'manipulator' to sort me out. Best I found was a nice young lady who offered to manipulate my jaw twice a week for 3 weeks. image

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