HADD training plan



  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Spen I try to stick to sub70% until half way, then keep a 75% lid on it, hoping for roughly even splits, but usually slowing down 10+ secs per mile.  I failed today, as I wanted to print the 8:42 avg I managed a few weeks ago - I ran the last 4m at 8:2x and sticking to that pace caused me to rise to 79%...bad, but not too bad...

  • Txs Teknik, I had been worried about my first 20 miler but was actually easier than I thought and your only an hour faster than me right nowimage

    Tried a 5.3 mile recovery run this evening and was surprised to finish in 59:59, 11.18mm's @ 70.74% of MHR image A new weekly record of 47.6m in 9:18:20 @ 72.87% - Beer time image 


  • Your drift is a little better than mine mine went from 70% to 80% over the first 15 miles but I did not start till 9.30 so was warmer.   I ran the last 5 miles at 8 min min so was upto 90% max.   Not good at all.


    Was hoping for 3:30 at chester marathon but do not think so now.   Will reassess in 6 weeks.

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Nice stats Andi - enjoy the beer ! 50 next week?image

    Spen yeah the heat will knock you a good 5%.  I'm not surprised you hit 90% at 8mm (I would have, too,15 miles in, in this weather). October will be a lot cooler - 9 weeks is still along way offimage...how are the subLTs shaping up?

  • They have took a bit of a back burner.   The really hot 3 weeks and then the move really mucked me about.

  • Cheers Teknik and it loks like our Summer is over now so am hoping this magical 70% target gets hit soon image. As for 50 next week, I have the Mull Half on Sunday and was planning on running it more like a LSR than a race so would running Mon-Fri be ok and take Saturday as a rest day? 

  • Andi with it being very low intensity you will be fine.,

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Spen I hear you.  Maybe leave the subLTs for when the rain hits you - running a hard 10 miles with cooler weather might be the boost you need...

    Andi sorry I didn't mean to disturb your plans.  Running a Half as a LSR is a good idea - you get the race day excitement without half killing yourself...

  • Txs Spen image and lol Teknik your not disturbing my plans though yes, the race day exitement will probably give me a boost and looking at last years results I may well be last! (only about 70 runners last year and the slowest was 2:25).

  • Andi - well done on the max mileage! I never got that high. Mull half sounds like an opp to test the waters? Personally I would want to use part of the race as a test - however this depends when your mara is. Also sometimes difficult not to run faster in a race - only natural. Try 5m at 75% / 5m at 80% and last 3m on how you feel - that is if you have done some 80%ers already (probably somewhere in the thread I could find it). Having said that if you take this option I would certainly not be putting as many miles in this week. Any one else have thoughts for Andi?

    Tek - thx for support (that goes for everyone) image

    2nd run this weekend - trying to run every other day now as I'm only doing short runs until I feel more confident. Keeping it below 70% so I'm not stressing the body.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Back from my family camping trip and had a quick catch up.

    VT sorry to hear about your dog. I grew up with a golden retriever called Ben - they are such lovely gentle dogs.

    BeDe - good news! image

    Andi - good loooooong run. image

    The day before camping was my triathlon but due to an RTA on the cycle route, the police closed the road and the triathlon became an aquathlon. Not much to report given that the main challenge was the cycle route. Holiday running was difficult due to family and lack of sleep but I did manage a 3 hour fell run/walk with my lad and also two 13.8 mile hilly runs. Need to get a couple of good weeks in now before the next camping trip...

  • Congrats on the 20 miler Andi! It sounds like you'll manage this marathon without any difficulty!!

  • Thanks everyone for your kind words. It's been a bit easier the past few days but our family is still a sad without our buddy.


    On the running front, I have what I think is slightly encouraging news. I ran 6 miles Friday, but started feeling tightness around 5 miles. It didn't, however, spike over the last mile (to get to my car). The next day it was a bit stiff when I got up. Rolled the hell out of it and jumped on my bike for the first time in several years. Went about 1 hr 40 min and kept my HR in the low 130s ave (which is about 65% for me). Great workout and I had a good time. Best, no ITB pain. Then day 3 (yesterday) I ran 6 miles with no pain (Maybe a little tightness near the end). No issues today. So will head out on the bike again today. I'll just alternate run/bike for a while and slowly build my distance on my feet. At least that sounds good to me today. I also think all the rolling/PT exercises are helping too. One of my issues is that I don't use my glutes...so am really kicking my a$$ into shape (so to speak).

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    First 10M sub-LT this year ... 11.3M in all with 10 of them at ILTHR. 7:35/m at 82% maxHR but with pace drift in the second half. Started a bit fast ... will aim to do the first 2 miles at 7:35/m next time and then stick with HR for the rest. Still, nice to get one under my belt.

  • Nice run Dr. Dan! You've really come back strong, eh? Remind me, are you training for a marathon right now? Also wanted to ask you about biking. What HR do you shoot for when you ride? I've been in the lower 130s for my couple of rides so far. Is there some run to bike conversion I should be aware of (I think you may have written about this before so apologies that I can't recall)? I'm seriously considering replacing at least 1 run per week with a bike session for the long term. Might help with my condition (which is that I break under heavy mileage!).

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    VT - yes, aiming for a 20th Oct marathon. And I'm running out of time!image

    On the bike I usually ignore HR ... I found it completely different to running HR and to be honest I basically use the bike as a commuting tool rather than a training method. I do think it's a good supplement to running and that it allows you to shave off some junk/filler mileage and replace it with bike, thus saving the legs for the sessions and LSR. I did do the CTS field test and intended to use that HR to base training on when injured ... but I never got my act together.

  • Running out of time...yes, I can appreciate that statement. I'm kind of in no-man's land with my options too. Either Oct. 5 or 13. Today was a good day though. 9.5 miles and no pain. Ran miles 2-8 hard...felt good! If I keep coming around, perhaps I can restart and make one of those dates with a slightly modified time goal.

    I think the bike would be good for me (to avoid the pounding of at least one run per week and I'm sure it would help balance my overall strength/conditioning).

  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    Hi guys image

    VT, glad to hear you are on the mend. Weak glutes is a typical runner's problem. I say lunges, lunges and more lunges image

    Some great long runs banked Andi, Tek and Spen image

    Dr. Dan - wow, great pace for your sub LT. What time are you aiming for in October?

    I strayed a bit from HADDing thinking I needed more speedwork for my October half but I paid for it. Calf got niggly again so I had to stop. More HADDing from now on with just the odd tempo run. Tempo pace seems ok, it's 5k pace that sets it off image

    Did 12 miles this morning with 10 @ sub LT. Happy to manage 7:47 pace at 80% exactly. Took me ages to raise HR to high 70s but then it was stable for quite some time before drifting to 83% for the final 2 miles. Work to be done still but happy enough for the day image

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Nice sub-LT run Chick ... injury is not allowed here, so stay away from 5KP.

    Target times for marathon make me nervous!image Especially when I haven't run  more than17 miles yet with only 10-11 weeks to go.image Ask me again in a month.image

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    DD well done on the subLT - good to get to 10mimage. Still plenty of time until Abo

    VT good to hear you're getting back on track

    Chick nice subLT pace this morningimage

    BeDe hope everything's ok

    SubLT for me too today - 1m w/up then 10m hard.  Averaged 7:55, so slower than last week (+0.07), but HR levelled out at 81% (-1.5%) with no drift, and it's the first time in a while that I didn't bail after 8 or 9 miles.  Breathing was much better.image

  • Tek - sounds like a good run to me and i assume the slightly slower pace is linked to slightly lower HR so all in all great stuff.

    On the mend thanks - have been out 3 times in the last week (started last Friday) and keeping everything down at 68%-70% which means after such a long lay off my times are horrendous and I end up walking a little. Aim is to keep at less than 70% for a few more weeks and once I don't have to walk I'll start increasing the mileage. It's a kind of plan. Don't anticipate any races until next year - really want to get the base back to something half decent.

    VT - when I was cycling I just kept the HRmax the same as if I was running and went on time. Even though maxHr might be different on a bike in my book working the heart 75% is still 75%image

    Dr Dan - great SubLT - you'll probably smash your PB when the time comesimage

  • BeDe, txs for the HR suggestions, they all sounded good until today's run lol. Well done on getting out again image what do you call a short distance now? Sounds like your base building plan is the best way to reach your goal (hopefully) uninjured!

    Dr.Dan, sorry about the TRI and RTA image Hope you had a good camp? and sounds like you did manage a couple of quality sessions, let us know if you get anybenefit from them. Well done with the 10 miler! Think i'll wait till next year before any sort of speed work. 11 weeks till your Marathon, surely you have a ballpark time?

    Txs RR, and yup, one day I think I'll be fine 'running' 26.2 miles then the next I get really worried I'll totally mess it up image

    VT, hope things are getting a little easier for you now? Sounds like your doing the right thing with the 'injury' and lol at Kicking your A$$, am pretty sure I have seen vids that teach just that to improve glutes image

    Chick, I've been luck (so far) and not suffered a running related injury (other than falling over lol) and believe HADDing has really helped me stay that way. Well done on the run yesterday image

    Seems to be a week for sub LT's and well done Teknik, am well impressed with all of your paces image

    Sort of following peeps advice on here I have done 4 4 milers this week and will rest now until Sunday image Yesterday's run was fine and (finally) managed sub 70% (69.15%) but today ran the same course/pace but averaged 76.6%! I was feeling good about Sunday but now worried again lol. Tonight is my Saturday night so will have a few beers then be a good boyimage

  • Andi - Only started running again last week so I'm still nervous and do not want to aggrevate anything - my back tells me when I've done too much!

    Keeping it down to 30 mins per run 4 times per week. Then in a couple of weeks up it to 35-40 mins depending on how it feels. Will still keep all runs to 70%. I know 30 mins per run at 70% is not going to change much but the muscles and tendons are all bashed in image so I have to be careful and not over work anything. 

    I'm sure you'll be fine on Sunday - enjoy & good luckimage

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    BeDe wrote (see)

    VT - when I was cycling I just kept the HRmax the same as if I was running and went on time. Even though maxHr might be different on a bike in my book working the heart 75% is still 75%image

    I looked back at my numbersimage ... when I did the CTS test on the bike, I came out with:

    76-137 bpm for endurance miles/"basic aerobic development" = up to 78% maxHR
    133-136 bpm for tempo/"improved aerobic endurance" = 76-78% maxHR
    139-142 bpm for Steady State/increased power at LT" = 79-81% maxHR
    166 bpm would be the kind of effort required for power intervals = 95% maxHR

    Andi - hope you're still being a good boy!image .... good luck for Sunday. Regarding marathon time ... well, 2 years ago I ran a 19:34 parkrun in July and my August sub-LT 10 milers were coming in at (at least) 7:15/m. At the moment I'm 20-25 seconds per mile slower on both counts. The October marathon in 2011 came in at 3:32 ... so I'd say 3:40 is looking likely if you look at the numbers. However, I think I was peaking at this time in 2011 and I'm nowhere near peaking at the moment ... and I also ran a tactically poor race in 2011. So 3:40 would actually be disapointing. Nearer the time I'll look at the numbers and decide what I'm gunning for.

    Today = 3rd 5.3M easy run in 3 days ... finally feel Tuesday's sub-LT is out of my legs.parkrun tomorrow and looooong on Sunday.

  • Just a quick update:

    20 miles in 4:20 today, 13:00mm I have no idea on actual HR as my H7 is off for repair/replace again image but it felt like it was low 140's for 14 maybe 15, then went up to maybe 150 ish? was still able to talk fairly well even at the end, so not too bad. Just well pleased with today so thought I'd post anyway image Only downside was my choice for food/gel/drink managed to upset my stomach 2/3rds way round, first time for that, but a few beers later seem to have sorted it out! still cant face food tho image

  • BeDe, sounds like you are going about this the right way image and don't fool yourself, am sure these 'short' runs feel like epic distances right now and will really help you recover and move forwards image

    Dr.Dan, lets leave it being reasonably goodimage Understand more about your goal time now, I've just been saying sub 5 hour for 5 months not really understanding how I'll achieve it (other than running 11:16/m for 26.2 miles). All seems to be making more sense to me now (I think).

    CR, BIG congrats on the 20 miler, you must be well chuffed image Whilst I've not been out without my HRM I'm getting pretty good at guessing the % I'm running at before I look at my watch so your 'guesstimates' should be pretty closeimage As for food/gel/drink I've decided not to take my Camelbak to Loch Ness in September so need to get some Clif Shot bloks or Gels (free on the run so should test them out), anybody have thoughts on either the Blok or Gel? Also, as you had issues CR am thinking of testing them on a short run first then if I'm ok will use them on a longer run (have been eating 15-20 Jelly Babies on longer runs btw).

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    BeDe good, and sensible, runningimage

    DD your subLTs are faster than mine, and I'm aiming to bag at least a sub 3:30...image

    Cheesy well done on the 20 miler.  Hope the stomach is easier now...

    Andi GOOD LUCK tomorrowimage

    Parkrun for me this morning.  Despite drinking way too much last night I managed to get round without throwing up, and PB'd at 20:29image.  Splits were

    1m - 6:30(6:30/m) 173/182bpm
    1m - 6:46(6:46/m) 190/196bpm
    1m - 6:41(6:41/m) 199/201bpm
    0.09m - 31(5:36/m) 201/205bpm

    (and yes, my max is ridiculously high...)

  • Txs Teknik, mixed emotions from today and sort of underwhelmed right now. will post more later but got a PB and wasn't last. Last place came in at about my target time of 2:20! I finished in 2:13:08 according to the timekeeper so should be well chuffed with that. Avg HR was 80.37% so guess I could have done better image McMillan says that's good for a 4:40 Mara (providing training goes to plan) so well withing my 5 hour target.

    Don't tell me off cos I know... went through the first mile in 8:57 and guess what, was in last place!!

  • Congrats Andi - same time as my first half - in fact you beat me by 19secsimage

    Next one was 2:07 and then 2:00 so I'm sure you'll get under your target time for Mara

    good work!!

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Andi - well doneimage. 80% maxHR makes that a 13M sub-LT session which is pretty tough in anyone's book. Plently more to come for sure! Health warning ... beware McMillan's predictor for marathon pace ... it's way to ambitious for most ... but sub-5 is certainly possible if you get you long runs in.

    Teknik - well done on the 5K PBimageimage.

    It was parkrun for me too ... managed 20:20, which is getting towards pre-injury pace (and 30s better than 3 weeks ago). I was racing someone I know who came past me at 3K .... I tagged on but got a stitch in with 0.5K to go - they came in at 20:09.

    Then I did 20.3M on Sunday in 2:58 ...  10M at 68-69% maxHR (8;53/m), then 6M at 73% maxHR (8:42/m), then a progressive 3M (8:18/m - 78%, 8:01/m - 80%, 7:39/m - 83% maxHR) ... then a stagger up the hill home as warm-down. Good to bag the first 20.

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