HADD Training Method



  • NayanNayan ✭✭✭

    Dr dan:  something tells me this recovery cycle is where you'll lock in some big adaptations

  • Nayan, that effort was perfect then.

    DD, glad to hear everything is intact.image Agree with Nayan, you'll definitely have gotten a fitness boost from the marathon. Fingers crossed you hold up well over the next month.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Following the tentative 3.3M on Mon, I did a more confident 5.5M on Tues and then 4.35M today with 2.1 at 7:40/m. All seems well. image

  • Great news, Dan. This is week 2 after the marathon right? I'm very curious to see how you do in round 2!

    Was feeling pretty trashed on Monday after the weekend exertions, but bounced back nicely yesterday w/7.6m w/10 striders tossed in. Had a scary moment on one when something weird happened w/my knee, but all seems ok today on my 5 mile recovery run. Overall legs feeling unexpectedly good so far this week. Last time around was worried I wouldn't recover in time for the marathon so hopefully this is a sign I'll be more rested this time. Also, the striders are feeling much more comfortable the past 2 times. I rarely do these because w/2 subLT runs and a LR each week I never seem to have any recovery run to dump them into (just too tired on those days). Anyway, it's reminding me of how it feels to run flat out and I haven't done that since college. I think I need to do more of these in general as I'm rediscovering some important aspects of good form that is lost in my normal training paces, particularly the easy/recovery stuff.

    Made the mistake of looking at a forecast for the 19th. 71 w/abundant sunshine! Just shoot me if that plays out. I picked a late October marathon for weather in the 40s/50s. I know this forecast will change a million times as I'm so far out, but it's freaking me out just the same.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    VT - yes, this is week 2. Supposed to be an easy only week but couldn't resist a bit of short distance MP effort yesterday as I'm nor feeling any wear'n'tear. I'll try to get a 16 mi run in on Sunday and then some more sustained MP/subLT efforts in next week.

    Agree that strides are good ... but also hard to schedule at this stage of training. I did them religiously in the last campaign but almost not at all this time. Hang in there regarding the weather ... I'm pretty sure our weather has turned now (it's been wet and blustery all week) and they'll be no repeat of the 23C/74F temperatures experienced 2 weeks ago.

  • Is there a HR phenomenon I should know about?

    In week 1,5,10 and 15 of my 16 week training (marathon on Sunday) I've done a 1 mile time trial at 142 bpm as a way of showing my progress.

    Week 1,5 and 10 showed my time to run the same mile around a track go from 8mins 30s to 8mins 10s (not huge, but does equate to 8 mins+ over a marathon).

    My last time trial today showed me running the mile at 9mins 20s FFS.

    Not the best result as prep for my marathon on Sunday. Training gone really well, no issues, good taper, good sleep etc.

    Any ideas?

  • Shoes, It's probably down to a one-off. Many things can influence your HR, including the time of day you run, etc. Also, one effect of high volume training is that your HR can actually read lower due to not being fully recovered. You might just be super recovered and therefore the heart was a bit frisky on your test. Either way, from what you describe hay is in the barn so trust the training. Which race are you doing? All the best and hope it's a great day for you!

    DD, our weather feels the same which is why I was so thrown by the forecast. Today it says high of 56 for race day. I better stop looking nowimage. I think it's a great sign you wanted to run a few fast miles this week. Hope the LR goes well this weekend.

    I'm off for my final subLT...

  • VTrunner - Doing Yorkshire Marathon. Yeah, it does go against my current fitness, feel and successful training. I'm running to pace on the day anyway.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Shoes - a 1 mile time trial is likely to be a bit hit and miss with HR as it's such a short distance/time period. It'll be reet.

  • Got 10 in today w/6 @ subLT. Pretty consistent 6:5X/m and HR was good. All parts are working. Was a little surprised I didn't feel more fresh through (yes, Taper Madness just began for me!imageimage).

  • Dr.Dan, all sounds positive for the 'proper' Marathon image

    Nayan, as the others have said one mile might give more variable results than (say) 10 miles?

    Shoes,  it was the inaugural York Marathon that got me into 26.2 running but sadly it sold out too quickly for me.

    VT,  good to hear your firing on all cylinders, just don't let the Taper madness take control image

    No running for me today, 143 Rally cars are passing by the house (almost constantly)  and decided againt the TM but might have to run indoors until Sunday now. Am hoping I don't have to work Saturday so I can take in a stage or two.

    Still only 10 days since Loch Ness but seem to be running faster and with a lower AHR than prior to it, fingers crossed this continues image

  • NayanNayan ✭✭✭

    EccE. Think that was Shoes , actually. The closest I get to doing that is slipping a two/three mile stretch into an easyish 5 miler and just noting the hr. Ie try to benchmark what the hadd ramp test might say about my proposed marathon pace without doing the whole ramp Test. 

  • doh! a case of poor speed reading again image

    On the subject of a mile not being far enough, does that cast (any) doubt on the 2400 test? esspecially in the early stages??

  • Brian61Brian61 ✭✭✭

    Andi, you do 5x2400m so that takes away the hit and miss. Plus you start out easy.

    Just checking in. Back-to-back went ok last week (Ta VT) but have a tender foot after yesterdays 45min run, so feeling a little deflated! Doubles Tennis tonight with the wife. Should be a good laff.

    Don't read anything into stats, or how you feel in the taper. As well as the mind playing tricks, tend to get a little excited too!! Taper madness rules ok remember..... 

  • 3.34.38 for me at the Yorkshire Marathon yesterday -a pb by over 2 mins image

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Great work Shoes! image

    Naturally, we'll need splits etc. image

    So, 33 miles last week ... easy on mileage volume but 20 of those miles were at MP or faster. On Wed I did 4.4 mi with 1 at MP and 2 more at 7:40/m ... Friday I did 5.4 with 4.2 at subLT (7:17/m) ... Sunday I did 14.3 with 13.15 at 7:55/m. No issues at any stage ... but will enjoy the day off today.


    I ran by pace and didn't use my heart rate-given that heart rate rise is normal during this distance, I don't know how steep that rise should be. I used my HR training to eventually dial into my pace. (then I went a tiny bit faster!!)

    But, as you can see, I died in last couple of miles or so. Had to stop and puke at mile 25 ish.

    8:09 7:52 7:37 7:38 7:53 7:49 7:52 7:56 7:58 7:55 7:51 7:48 8:20 7:47 7:56 8:05 8:03 7:53 8:05 8:16 8:07 8:28 8:27 8:50 9:30 10:15 2:21


  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Ouch - I feel your pain on that last 5K. You died even more than I did, and I know how bad my last 5K felt. A quick look suggests you did the first half at sub 3:26/3:27 pace - was that the plan? Perhaps a sub 3:30 was there if you'd paced it at 8/m?

  • Dan -Yes, maybe. I was running in touch with the 3.30 pacer and did notice him running at 7.30 pace at times. Of course, he crossed the line in 3.30 !

  • Andi, glad to hear everything is working still and that you are feeling so good after the race.

    Brian, sorry to hear about your foot. So frustrating. Is it better? I couldn't quite imagine how playing tennis would be good for that foot!

    Shoes, nice work! Looks to me as if you ran through a bit of hell to get that well earned finish. Sometimes those are the best kind of races. Hope you can walk today!

    DD, seems as if you are right where you want to be, eh? Great to hear everything is on track.

    Well, got all of my gardening/yard work out of the way this weekend (no temptations in place for race weekend now...). Got 13 miles in Sunday (stats below) and while my legs didn't feel totally fresh, it was a good run overall. Took a few miles to get loose, but then was able to cruise the second half and even put in a few at my target pace at the end (and didn't have to reach to find that gear). While my subLTs are usually just under 7/m, I think for race day I want to test starting at 7:15 pace and just go from there (up or down depending on feel). Still worried about the weather as we have a warm front coming through so race day could get up to 70. Haven't had to run in warm stuff for weeks now. I hate that I can't control that variable. Oh well, it could very well be cold that day w/how inaccurate forecasts are around here.




  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    All looking good VT! 7:15/m is a tasty MP! I think my target MP in 2 weeks will be a more modest 8:05/m ... target is to beat 3:32:43 (as after the Nottingham experience, I don't think the sub-3:30 is realistic at the moment).

    Want some marathon inspiration? Read PRF's latest blog image. Only about 3 weeks older than me but in a completely different class ... as he was when he first kicked my arse 30 years ago.



  • Shoes, great run and time! For me your last mile is my (current) goal mp so kudos to you image

    (reading back) as always your correct Brian,  5 x 2400 is a lot more than 1 mile image

    Dr.Dan,  sounds to me like your well up for this one, 2:43 is still a small amount of time to beat for one as slow as me but beginning to understand as you get faster it gets harder image

    VT,  thanks, but still doing short distances so guess it should be easier? that said both HR and pace seem to be going the right way at the moment. Seems your another HADDer ready for a good time!

    Just 17 miles last week, Mull Rally weekend and whilst I just saw 2 stages it was busy on the raods and (like VT) caught up on 'chores'. 

    60 mins tonight @10:15mm's and 70.74%. I felt good but still need to slow a little on the hills to dip under (that magical) 70%. In my defence there was a 117m incline.

    So, am soon to start some subLT work and going to start with (just) 6-7 mins and build up - what sort of recovery time between intervals should I use? or simply jog until my HR hits (say) 70%?

  • DD, who is this PRF and more importantly, how do I find his blog?? I think you will find your second marathon faster than the first. It will be much cooler (hopefully) and I bet the pace works out faster. BTW, how does the course profile look? Is it hilly or challenging in some other way (wind?). The one I'm doing is supposedly very flat but the winds can be a factor.

    Andi, sounds like a good weekend over there. I've never actually split up the subLT stuff at first (like I should have) but I would guess you run between subLT efforts and simply let the HR come down to 70%ish again and maybe even stay there a few minutes like that to really get your wind back before hammering again. Good luck (and be sure you at least 5 wks out from the marathon for this fast stuff...no need to pick up an overuse injury!).

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    image PRF= parkrunfan ... blog here: http://runningonaraisin.blogspot.co.uk/

    The Dublin course is a fast one but it's a bit more undulating than Nottingham ... there's a "heartbreak hill" at 19/20 miles too, although after that it's supposed to be downhill or flat to the end. I expect the added lumps will cancel out the higher temperatures. The good thing about the Nottingham experience was that I got the pacing right ... so I know the reason I slowed was that 8/m was too fast for me, rather than going too fast in the first 5 miles as I did in London back in April.

  • NayanNayan ✭✭✭

    Well done toughing it out Shoes. 

  • imageWow, he nailed it! What a great read. Sincerely hope we can both have a day like that soon.

    Yes, you have definitely got the intel needed for round 2.

    So we better not be feeling sh*t over the first 10K. Right then.

  • Brian61Brian61 ✭✭✭

    Morning all,

    Shoes, Well done - great time! Shame that you were ill at the end.
    VT, you are in perfect shape. In the words of a very wise man, don't be shit.
    DrDan, I read PRF's blog yesterday and was suitably inspired.

    Attempting another back-to-back today. Did 45mins yesterday, and everything feels fine. 60mins at lunch today, then hopefully can kick on to more of the same sequence.

    Felt good yesterday after a 35mile bike ride Sunday which absolutely knackered me. I'm a real rookie on the bike and this was my 3rd time out. Rode about 17miles to the turn round point (Burnsall), ready for a rest came to a halt outside the village pub and promptly fell off!

    Unclipped my right foot but leaned the bike to the left. It was sunny and there were quite a few people milling around outside the pub. Felt a bit of a numpty. Fortunately didn't hurt myself, well.... only my pride.

  • I now haven't posted in here in a while but have been an avid reader of the thread and have been merrily Hadding away in the background.

    Did the Yorkshire marathon as well after a nightmare at GNR decided to set a conservative pace of 9.09/m that expected to be around 80% heart rate and try to push on if I felt good in the second half.  Ended up hitting halfway 2 hours almost exactly pushed on a bit struggled a bit up the long uphill slopes and couldn't get my legs going faster between 22-24 where inner chimp was screaming at me to walk a bit.  Last mile put a lot in got up heartbreak hill pretty easy last mile was my second fastest of the whole day.  So managed under 3:59 and got a negative split so am happy overall even if I suspect i left a few minutes out there.  Overall was at 81% MHR.

    Thanks for all the good advice and contributions by all in the thread and heres to the next one and hopeful next target of 3.45.

    Split Time Distance Elevation Gain Elevation Loss Avg Pace Avg HR

    1 09:14.6 1 -- 11 09:15 147

    2 09:14.9 1 12 9 09:15 149

    3 09:02.1 1 4 6 09:02 151

    4 09:06.0 1 -- 1 09:06 150

    5 09:05.1 1 -- 2 09:05 150

    6 09:05.7 1 5 -- 09:06 148

    7 09:06.6 1 3 -- 09:07 149

    8 09:06.6 1 2 -- 09:07 149

    9 09:05.9 1 15 -- 09:06 151

    10 08:56.7 1 8 13 08:57 150

    11 09:12.0 1 1 5 09:12 148

    12 08:58.6 1 1 11 08:59 148

    13 09:02.8 1 3 4 09:03 150

    14 08:44.4 1 -- 7 08:45 151

    15 08:57.8 1 4 -- 08:58 153

    16 09:00.6 1 11 3 09:01 152

    17 08:55.8 1 13 6 08:56 152

    18 09:03.4 1 -- 12 09:04 149

    19 09:06.2 1 4 -- 09:06 154

    20 09:19.0 1 14 5 09:19 154

    21 09:18.7 1 -- 16 09:19 152

    22 09:22.3 1 5 5 09:23 153

    23 09:14.8 1 2 3 09:15 154

    24 09:28.1 1 -- -- 09:28 151

    25 09:18.6 1 1 2 09:19 155

    26 08:51.5 1 16 6 08:52 162

    27 01:50.8 0.23 -- -- 08:10 161

    Summary 03:58:50 26.23 125 126 09:06 151

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Great run davey ... that's the sort of even split running we all dream of.image

    Brian - been there, done that! imageimageimage

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Shoes congrats on the PBimage

    Daveymck great running and nice splitsimageimage

    Tale of woe here - 26 weeks of uninterrupted training ended in a cold virus.  It's now been 8 days of non running, on antibiotics now.  Don't know if I'm going to make the start line at Frankfurt on 26thimage

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